911R - Seven for sale on Pistonheads
Discussion
Why? You seem to be applying logic to used car prices!
The 997 sports classic is nothing more than a GTS with some nice options (that weren’t otherwise available) like the houndstooth seats, yet goes for £250k rather than £80k
A GT3 Touring will never be a 911R and even if it is better to drive will not have the same premium.
Also, there are quite a few differences as the 911R used magnesium and carbon fibre to reduce weight.
The 997 sports classic is nothing more than a GTS with some nice options (that weren’t otherwise available) like the houndstooth seats, yet goes for £250k rather than £80k
A GT3 Touring will never be a 911R and even if it is better to drive will not have the same premium.
Also, there are quite a few differences as the 911R used magnesium and carbon fibre to reduce weight.
Esceptico said:
Why? You seem to be applying logic to used car prices!
The 997 sports classic is nothing more than a GTS with some nice options (that weren’t otherwise available) like the houndstooth seats, yet goes for £250k rather than £80k
A GT3 Touring will never be a 911R and even if it is better to drive will not have the same premium.
Also, there are quite a few differences as the 911R used magnesium and carbon fibre to reduce weight.
Totally agree with you! The 997 sports classic is nothing more than a GTS with some nice options (that weren’t otherwise available) like the houndstooth seats, yet goes for £250k rather than £80k
A GT3 Touring will never be a 911R and even if it is better to drive will not have the same premium.
Also, there are quite a few differences as the 911R used magnesium and carbon fibre to reduce weight.
The spread of prices seems to have settled - most are just under the £400k mark. There will always be a few dreamers. 2 OPC Cars have recently sold (Cardiff and Reading) so the market seems relatively healthy given its mid winter etc.
Prices certainly took a knock when the manual GT3 was announced and may slip a little further when the touring arrives but I am not sure they appeal to the same type of buyer. One is a limited production “collectible” and the other is not.
These things are never that rational / predictable though so I guess we’ll find out later this year when the Tourings start to land.
Prices certainly took a knock when the manual GT3 was announced and may slip a little further when the touring arrives but I am not sure they appeal to the same type of buyer. One is a limited production “collectible” and the other is not.
These things are never that rational / predictable though so I guess we’ll find out later this year when the Tourings start to land.
Esceptico said:
The 997 sports classic is nothing more than a GTS with some nice options (that weren’t otherwise available) like the houndstooth seats, yet goes for £250k rather than £80k
Nice options and only 250 made globally with about 10% of those in the UK.Makes the R look positively high volume although clearly the R has a lot more to it.
The R is a limited edition numbered run of 991 cars with approximately 70 in the UK.
The GT3 Touring will also be limited by production with probably less cars worldwide and in the U.K. but not numbered and will have a slightly different appeal to some.
Is there £200k worth of difference between the 2 cars only time will tell.
The GT3 Touring will also be limited by production with probably less cars worldwide and in the U.K. but not numbered and will have a slightly different appeal to some.
Is there £200k worth of difference between the 2 cars only time will tell.
Being the lucky recipient of a GT3 Touring, my spec is very close to the 911R, but I’m not banking on it being worth anything like an R. However, the reality is that this will make prospective R purchasers think twice about paying £400k unless they are a collector, as opposed to a driver. My own view is that GT3s will move to list over the next 18 months and Rs will settle at about £250k. The economy is not good.
Agree, it's impossible to apply logic or common sense to some used car prices.
However, the market seemed to have peaked a couple of years ago, and has already seen a bit of a reality check. Buyers are much more wary about some of the inflated asking prices, and we all know that an economic downturn will bite this market.
I love the concept of the 911'R', but I'd be much more comfortable spending half the price on a GT3 Touring. They may not be identical, but for most enthusiast drivers, they are so close as makes little difference.
However, the market seemed to have peaked a couple of years ago, and has already seen a bit of a reality check. Buyers are much more wary about some of the inflated asking prices, and we all know that an economic downturn will bite this market.
I love the concept of the 911'R', but I'd be much more comfortable spending half the price on a GT3 Touring. They may not be identical, but for most enthusiast drivers, they are so close as makes little difference.
2010spy said:
Being the lucky recipient of a GT3 Touring, my spec is very close to the 911R, but I’m not banking on it being worth anything like an R. However, the reality is that this will make prospective R purchasers think twice about paying £400k unless they are a collector, as opposed to a driver. My own view is that GT3s will move to list over the next 18 months and Rs will settle at about £250k. The economy is not good.
Stock markets the highest it’s been, where does it point to a bad economy ?Non brexit people have been saying this for the last 4 years.
Koln-RS said:
.
I love the concept of the 911'R', but I'd be much more comfortable spending half the price on a GT3 Touring. They may not be identical, but for most enthusiast drivers, they are so close as makes little difference.
I agree but I don’t think it’s enthusiast drivers contemplating buying an R for £400k. We know there are enthusiast drivers that own them but they were I think lucky enough to get an allocation. I love the concept of the 911'R', but I'd be much more comfortable spending half the price on a GT3 Touring. They may not be identical, but for most enthusiast drivers, they are so close as makes little difference.
Just checked yesterday - first 911R under 300k euros now listed (it does have some miles on it and the wrong seats and no lightweight flywheel) - getting closer to being an attractive proposition (now only say 100k more than a Touring). If I can fit my dog in it properly, it could replace my daily and my weekend car - at which point it might just start to make sense with some man math (if prices continue to drop a little more). Running costs probably also a lot lower if only one “do it all” car to insure, service etc
Cheib said:
Esceptico said:
The 997 sports classic is nothing more than a GTS with some nice options (that weren’t otherwise available) like the houndstooth seats, yet goes for £250k rather than £80k
Nice options and only 250 made globally with about 10% of those in the UK.Makes the R look positively high volume although clearly the R has a lot more to it.
But it's more than just a GTS with some fancy leather. The car is so different from standard it wasn't offered for sale in the States, because it would have had to have been rehomologated.
Doors and front lid are aluminium. Double dome roof. Duck tail.
The engine air filter housing in the Sport Classic is carbon fibre (only plastic in the GTS) and the Sport Classic also has a unique exhaust, which between them make for a very different engine noise to GTS.
This in addition to all the lovely options which make the whole car a very special event.
I put 8k miles on mine and had it on the circuit several times. It handles differently to the GTS, the geo is different, and it is more progressive on the limit.
Sadly most of them are wrapped up in garages, and will never have seen any use at all, never mind the enthusiastic use mine did, so I can understand why it's so widely misunderstood.
If you are 1) an enthusiast and 2) lucky enough to have got an R slot you will 3) almost certainly have a 991.2 GT3 slot - so happy days! Sell the R, (some of) the profit over list pays for your new Touring, which seems to be a better car anwyay, with the upgraded engine, aero etc. You can put some miles on this without worrying so much about depreciation, and your only remaining problem is working out what to do with rest of the money you made on the trade...
It may be the number for sale simply reflects a bit of this going on.
Although I agree with those of you saying the market in unobtanium is getting softer and I think it potentially has a lot further to fall.
It may be the number for sale simply reflects a bit of this going on.
Although I agree with those of you saying the market in unobtanium is getting softer and I think it potentially has a lot further to fall.
ags11 said:
It's probably not so applicable to the level being discussed, but the car market in general is coming back down the hill inmho.
Again I think the pcp thing is a bit like the sub prime mortgage fiasco. Car sales remind me of dfs sofas these days.
I completely agree with this post - car PCP and DFS is a great way to describe what’s going on and as soon as interest rates start rising driven by inflation it’s going to turn ; with new car sales and used values being hit - suddenly free “toys” are not so free any more so more enter the market which softens prices further, which in turn, causes panic making things worse. Again I think the pcp thing is a bit like the sub prime mortgage fiasco. Car sales remind me of dfs sofas these days.
As I say, I’m not sure when this will happen but I’m pretty sure that it will to some degree at some point ; I really hope I’m wrong as I have a few “toys” - but the sensible side of me thinks life’s changing.
The economy is a real worry for all the reasons so often mentioned ; the only unknown IMHO is not “if” but “when” and also “how bad.”
The car market has softened massively in the last 12-18 months and if you talk to some of the respected dealers they will privately back this view up . Less so in the GT market, but the AC market is so much softer than it was : if you actually want to sell anything that is : lots of cars advertised at old silly prices that are going absolutely nowhere.
Only the cream is moving and that’s only the case is priced really well - fair enough IMHO - there are some crazy prices being asked for for some very average mass produced Pork.
Edited by RSVP911 on Sunday 7th January 17:42
RSVP911 said:
As I say, I’m not sure when this will happen but I’m pretty sure that it will to some degree at some point ; I really hope I’m wrong as I have a few “toys” - but the sensible side of me thinks life’s changing.
The economy is a real worry for all the reasons so often mentioned ; the only unknown IMHO is not “if” but “when” and also “how bad.”
Actually the downturn has already started in the UK..!. London city center houses for sale asking prices are down £87k from a year ago and not selling, Agriculture land has fallen 25% in the last two years(unless Dyson is interested) and car sales in the UK has fallen the first time in the last few years..Couple this with rising rates and in excess of £200M Uk unsecured personal debt and the economy can only go one way IMO.The economy is a real worry for all the reasons so often mentioned ; the only unknown IMHO is not “if” but “when” and also “how bad.”
How bad will depend on the contagion effect on the rest of the world's economy..Its time to batten down the hatches as the next financial storm is going to be a category four hurricane .
Not where did i put my Valium tablets.
Taffy66 said:
RSVP911 said:
As I say, I’m not sure when this will happen but I’m pretty sure that it will to some degree at some point ; I really hope I’m wrong as I have a few “toys” - but the sensible side of me thinks life’s changing.
The economy is a real worry for all the reasons so often mentioned ; the only unknown IMHO is not “if” but “when” and also “how bad.”
Actually the downturn has already started in the UK..!. London city center houses for sale asking prices are down £87k from a year ago and not selling, Agriculture land has fallen 25% in the last two years(unless Dyson is interested) and car sales in the UK has fallen the first time in the last few years..Couple this with rising rates and in excess of £200M Uk unsecured personal debt and the economy can only go one way IMO.The economy is a real worry for all the reasons so often mentioned ; the only unknown IMHO is not “if” but “when” and also “how bad.”
How bad will depend on the contagion effect on the rest of the world's economy..Its time to batten down the hatches as the next financial storm is going to be a category four hurricane .
Not where did i put my Valium tablets.
BTW - be carefull that you don’t accidentally take a viagra when grabbing the Valium - if you’re dyslexic it could go horribly wrong (or right)
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