Discussion
So I’m at the paint stage for painting my classic. I want a good quality single stage finish, and I’m happy to pay for that.
My dad has painted cars his whole life, until about 10 years ago when he retired, but we still have the gear so will be doing it ourselves.
Bottom line though is that he doesn’t want me to spend my money in a top end paint system like Glasurit or Sikkens, but is recommending a much cheaper option (I think it was Lechler was his most recent suggestion).
So I have the question, in a straight single stage finish, why do people buy the real high end paint systems such as Glasurit, and what do they have to offer over the mid-range options, particularly when painting a whole car?
My dad has painted cars his whole life, until about 10 years ago when he retired, but we still have the gear so will be doing it ourselves.
Bottom line though is that he doesn’t want me to spend my money in a top end paint system like Glasurit or Sikkens, but is recommending a much cheaper option (I think it was Lechler was his most recent suggestion).
So I have the question, in a straight single stage finish, why do people buy the real high end paint systems such as Glasurit, and what do they have to offer over the mid-range options, particularly when painting a whole car?
Edited by guycarnegie on Monday 15th January 23:03
I haven’t used that particular product but all I will say is that I have found 99.9% of the finished finish is down to the prep and the quality of the painter not just the paint. I used to have a friend who only painted cars for himself, would never take on any work. His jobs were perfect, and I mean perfect. One day I persuaded him to paint a car for me, wow was I surprised! An old unit no booth or anything, just some polythene sheets over the tool box etc.. standard paint from the local factors mixed with gun wash, yep gun wash not even standard thinners! I cannot begin to tell you how good his work was. From then I have always concentrated on the prep and taking my time painting and have had good results. I have never bothered buying high end products.
nothing wrong with lechlar
the way it was explained to me - high end brand names vs no name , the high end folk will have an office full of tech help for colour matching help , tech problems and if a bodyshop has a failiure then a rep will come out in a car and sort things out vs the no name stuff you buy a tin of paint and get on with it
ive never had anything go wrong with the cheaper /no name stuff...99% is in the prep
the way it was explained to me - high end brand names vs no name , the high end folk will have an office full of tech help for colour matching help , tech problems and if a bodyshop has a failiure then a rep will come out in a car and sort things out vs the no name stuff you buy a tin of paint and get on with it
ive never had anything go wrong with the cheaper /no name stuff...99% is in the prep
I was going to post a similar question in the Tech section
I have painted 10 or 12 cars in cellulose in the late 80's/90's and one about 10 year ago.
I used to do it in a garage with the door open and go outside as soon as sprayed a side/front/back/roof etc (limited space).
Now celly wasn't very nice stuff but the stuff that replaced it (2 pack etc) was worse and needed breathing apparatus etc.
So what is available now for the home sprayer? Is everything still cyanide based or whatever? What about water based stuff?
I have painted 10 or 12 cars in cellulose in the late 80's/90's and one about 10 year ago.
I used to do it in a garage with the door open and go outside as soon as sprayed a side/front/back/roof etc (limited space).
Now celly wasn't very nice stuff but the stuff that replaced it (2 pack etc) was worse and needed breathing apparatus etc.
So what is available now for the home sprayer? Is everything still cyanide based or whatever? What about water based stuff?
Isocyanate paints do not contain cyanide.
Much gunwash is slightly colored - often a yellowish tint. Do not use it for other than its stated purpose i.e cleaning.
Use a decent quality universal 2k thinner.
For solid colours you have the option of doing it in basecoat (either waterbased or solvent based) with clear over or as a 2k topcoat. With the latter the colour is mixed with its hardener & thinner as required & is shiny straight from the gun.
Nothing wrong with Lechler or Glasurit or Sikkens. Or any of several other brands. I currently use Nexa & Lesonal basecoats. Many brands are under the PPG group anyway.
EDIT This worth a read: http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/fod/inspect/...
Much gunwash is slightly colored - often a yellowish tint. Do not use it for other than its stated purpose i.e cleaning.
Use a decent quality universal 2k thinner.
For solid colours you have the option of doing it in basecoat (either waterbased or solvent based) with clear over or as a 2k topcoat. With the latter the colour is mixed with its hardener & thinner as required & is shiny straight from the gun.
Nothing wrong with Lechler or Glasurit or Sikkens. Or any of several other brands. I currently use Nexa & Lesonal basecoats. Many brands are under the PPG group anyway.
EDIT This worth a read: http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/fod/inspect/...
Edited by paintman on Tuesday 16th January 23:51
paintman said:
Isocyanate paints do not contain cyanide.
Much gunwash is slightly colored - often a yellowish tint. Do not use it for other than its stated purpose i.e cleaning.
Use a decent quality universal 2k thinner.
For solid colours you have the option of doing it in basecoat (either waterbased or solvent based) with clear over or as a 2k topcoat. With the latter the colour is mixed with its hardener & thinner as required & is shiny straight from the gun.
Nothing wrong with Lechler or Glasurit or Sikkens. Or any of several other brands. I currently use Nexa & Lesonal basecoats. Many brands are under the PPG group anyway.
EDIT This worth a read: http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/fod/inspect/...
Thanks Paintman, another myth debunked.Much gunwash is slightly colored - often a yellowish tint. Do not use it for other than its stated purpose i.e cleaning.
Use a decent quality universal 2k thinner.
For solid colours you have the option of doing it in basecoat (either waterbased or solvent based) with clear over or as a 2k topcoat. With the latter the colour is mixed with its hardener & thinner as required & is shiny straight from the gun.
Nothing wrong with Lechler or Glasurit or Sikkens. Or any of several other brands. I currently use Nexa & Lesonal basecoats. Many brands are under the PPG group anyway.
EDIT This worth a read: http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/fod/inspect/...
Edited by paintman on Tuesday 16th January 23:51
the link makes for a good read, just scan read it but will read more thoroughly, it would seem though that all paints, even water based ones now need an air fed mask, or have I miss read that. I assume a straight forward face mask as in one used near fibreglass or loft insulation isn't sufficient.
(I was never that good a painter anyway! Did enjoy it though.)
Skyedriver said:
paintman said:
Isocyanate paints do not contain cyanide.
Much gunwash is slightly colored - often a yellowish tint. Do not use it for other than its stated purpose i.e cleaning.
Use a decent quality universal 2k thinner.
For solid colours you have the option of doing it in basecoat (either waterbased or solvent based) with clear over or as a 2k topcoat. With the latter the colour is mixed with its hardener & thinner as required & is shiny straight from the gun.
Nothing wrong with Lechler or Glasurit or Sikkens. Or any of several other brands. I currently use Nexa & Lesonal basecoats. Many brands are under the PPG group anyway.
EDIT This worth a read: http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/fod/inspect/...
Thanks Paintman, another myth debunked.Much gunwash is slightly colored - often a yellowish tint. Do not use it for other than its stated purpose i.e cleaning.
Use a decent quality universal 2k thinner.
For solid colours you have the option of doing it in basecoat (either waterbased or solvent based) with clear over or as a 2k topcoat. With the latter the colour is mixed with its hardener & thinner as required & is shiny straight from the gun.
Nothing wrong with Lechler or Glasurit or Sikkens. Or any of several other brands. I currently use Nexa & Lesonal basecoats. Many brands are under the PPG group anyway.
EDIT This worth a read: http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/fod/inspect/...
Edited by paintman on Tuesday 16th January 23:51
the link makes for a good read, just scan read it but will read more thoroughly, it would seem though that all paints, even water based ones now need an air fed mask, or have I miss read that. I assume a straight forward face mask as in one used near fibreglass or loft insulation isn't sufficient.
(I was never that good a painter anyway! Did enjoy it though.)
High end paints are great and nothing wrong with them if you won't to throw your money away.theres a lot of snobbery in paints out there if you ask me.most people who use them don't actually pay for them or just work at a body shop that uses them its the same with all body repair pruducts.As have been said before its all in the prep work.but which ever product you use.use good thinners and hardener.
Whilst I totally agree with whats been said, especially about the end result being almost totally reliant on the quality of the prep, I’d always use premium paints on something I was keeping for a long time. Cheaper paints, in my experience, dont seem to offer the same UV resistance and they seem to degrade and become brittle after 5-10 years. They can start delaminating, peeling and microblistering later on. Obviously not all do this but try and research your products longevity first.
Saying that, I havent used budget/medium priced paints in years and the products have moved on in leaps and bounds...
Saying that, I havent used budget/medium priced paints in years and the products have moved on in leaps and bounds...
fireturk said:
just throw my 10p worth in, not able to advise on the paint side of things, but I do know about masks ( have been carrying out mask fit testing for 6 years at work), don't buy a cheap dust mask to protect you from paint spray!, you probably already know that though. if you have a beard or significant beard stubble no "close fitting" mask is likely to give you proper protection and you will need some sort of powered respirator/hood combination.
Agree, And to add, I used to find that my specs steamed up when wearing a mask and ended up ripping it off!!Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff