Kitchen island extractors.
Discussion
Final stages now before i order our new kitchen.
We are having a large island in the middle which will have the hob in it. Im struggling to work out what extractor to use as when i look on line it appears may people don't actually have one on their island even though the hob is there.
Ive been told i could have an inline extractor fitted into the bottom of one of the wall units (approx 2m away or so from hob), duct it straight out of external wall. Nice and powerful and I'm sure effective but not next to the hob so I'm unsure on how well it would work, would grease end up all over that unit? Obviously very cheap to do as well.
Pop up island extractor. Always been what I've assumed ill get but how good are they? they take up a fair bit of space and also are very expensive. Im sure the novelty of it popping up wears off as well.
extractor fitted in ceiling. Wont work due to joist lay out and wont be able to duct out.
extractor hanging from ceiling, not keen on the look due to the design of kitchen.
So either downdraft or a hidden inline filter in a cupboard. What do we think?
We are having a large island in the middle which will have the hob in it. Im struggling to work out what extractor to use as when i look on line it appears may people don't actually have one on their island even though the hob is there.
Ive been told i could have an inline extractor fitted into the bottom of one of the wall units (approx 2m away or so from hob), duct it straight out of external wall. Nice and powerful and I'm sure effective but not next to the hob so I'm unsure on how well it would work, would grease end up all over that unit? Obviously very cheap to do as well.
Pop up island extractor. Always been what I've assumed ill get but how good are they? they take up a fair bit of space and also are very expensive. Im sure the novelty of it popping up wears off as well.
extractor fitted in ceiling. Wont work due to joist lay out and wont be able to duct out.
extractor hanging from ceiling, not keen on the look due to the design of kitchen.
So either downdraft or a hidden inline filter in a cupboard. What do we think?
m3jappa said:
Final stages now before i order our new kitchen.
We are having a large island in the middle which will have the hob in it. Im struggling to work out what extractor to use as when i look on line it appears may people don't actually have one on their island even though the hob is there.
Ive been told i could have an inline extractor fitted into the bottom of one of the wall units (approx 2m away or so from hob), duct it straight out of external wall. Nice and powerful and I'm sure effective but not next to the hob so I'm unsure on how well it would work, would grease end up all over that unit? Obviously very cheap to do as well.
Pop up island extractor. Always been what I've assumed ill get but how good are they? they take up a fair bit of space and also are very expensive. Im sure the novelty of it popping up wears off as well.
extractor fitted in ceiling. Wont work due to joist lay out and wont be able to duct out.
extractor hanging from ceiling, not keen on the look due to the design of kitchen.
So either downdraft or a hidden inline filter in a cupboard. What do we think?
That's your problem right there. I daresay you've decided that that's where it has to be but are you sure?We are having a large island in the middle which will have the hob in it. Im struggling to work out what extractor to use as when i look on line it appears may people don't actually have one on their island even though the hob is there.
Ive been told i could have an inline extractor fitted into the bottom of one of the wall units (approx 2m away or so from hob), duct it straight out of external wall. Nice and powerful and I'm sure effective but not next to the hob so I'm unsure on how well it would work, would grease end up all over that unit? Obviously very cheap to do as well.
Pop up island extractor. Always been what I've assumed ill get but how good are they? they take up a fair bit of space and also are very expensive. Im sure the novelty of it popping up wears off as well.
extractor fitted in ceiling. Wont work due to joist lay out and wont be able to duct out.
extractor hanging from ceiling, not keen on the look due to the design of kitchen.
So either downdraft or a hidden inline filter in a cupboard. What do we think?
Can you put the ducting from the downdraft type through the floor and out? Or will it just be used as a charcoal filter?
If the latter, I'd personally be looking at a suspended ceiling type with proper ducting.
You can get hobs with them built in, expensive but probably better than the pop up type!
http://www.neff-home.com/uk/productlist/extractor-...
If the latter, I'd personally be looking at a suspended ceiling type with proper ducting.
You can get hobs with them built in, expensive but probably better than the pop up type!
http://www.neff-home.com/uk/productlist/extractor-...
m3jappa said:
Its the only place for it really, I've racked my brains for months trying to configure different options but would only really work here. Only other place it to have hob in front of window and have sink on the island but i think thats an odd layout imo.
I'm guessing it's either a small kitchen or else there are unusual architectural features that are restricting your choices?I think i can duct outside but it wont be that easy. Im almost more concerned of how big they are iykwim. They take up a lot of space on the island and are a lot of money.
Ive seen the hobs with the extractors built in but you lose that much cooking area and they appear in the drawings to take up huge amounts of space under the island (although they may not be an issue).
A dropped ceiling would work but all the extractors seem to be at least 250mm deep or more. our house is a mid 80's bovis and so ceiling height is on the low side anyway. due to joist direction as well the housing for the extractor would have to run off to the window wall to extract out making the whole thing huge and potentially odd.
Ive seen the hobs with the extractors built in but you lose that much cooking area and they appear in the drawings to take up huge amounts of space under the island (although they may not be an issue).
A dropped ceiling would work but all the extractors seem to be at least 250mm deep or more. our house is a mid 80's bovis and so ceiling height is on the low side anyway. due to joist direction as well the housing for the extractor would have to run off to the window wall to extract out making the whole thing huge and potentially odd.
What about a really nice extractor fan in the ceiling?
Something like the iCON 60?
You could always put 2 in. Very discreet, switchable or you could add a humidity module for automatic on/off.
https://www.airflow.com/Product-Detail/mixed_flow_...
Something like the iCON 60?
You could always put 2 in. Very discreet, switchable or you could add a humidity module for automatic on/off.
https://www.airflow.com/Product-Detail/mixed_flow_...
m3jappa said:
Pop up island extractor. Always been what I've assumed ill get but how good are they? they take up a fair bit of space and also are very expensive. Im sure the novelty of it popping up wears off as well.
Thunderbirds tune is essential on every erection.I got most of a Wolf system from ebay. I had to sort my own power supply and a piece of black glass for the extractor 'lid'. Two grand new, I got ours up and running for a third of that, so still not cheap, but it does look cool and really sucks.
It has an externally mounted fan unit so it's very quiet even on full suck. If you have the space under the house (8" duct from memory) it would work well. You do lose a bit of cupboard space - I used 300 deep wall units behind it instead of 600 deep base units.
eta same as ours here.. £25 bid so far! It might have a fan mounted internally as there's no signs of the external wall mount fan box - you'd need to check with the seller.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subzero-Wolf-Downdraft-...
Edited by andy43 on Tuesday 23 January 09:53
Edited by andy43 on Tuesday 23 January 09:55
An efficient kitchen extractor needs to collect most of the grease laden air that needs to be dealt with, and pass it through a large stainless steel grid on which the grease will condense. To get most of that air it needs a good flow, a large intake surface area and to be close to the source. Ideally it needs to be piped outside but that will reduce the airflow significantly depending on the diameter of the pipe, its length, its straightness and how smooth it is.
Failing that the grease is going to condense somewhere else.
Failing that the grease is going to condense somewhere else.
Looks like you're discovering what we did a few years ago, island extractor fans are a total pita, seem to "hang" loads further down than wall mounted extractors.
We started with a Gorenje one, but that hung too low and would have needed some serious modding to the mounting frame/kit to work for us (reminds me I must list it on ebay or something).
Finally went with an Elica one that was much more compact packaging (mind you very expensive too), only projects about 30cm down from ceiling. The main issue for us was constructing a suitable "sub-frame" to hang it off as all the mounting points lined up with RSJ that holds the middle of the roof up.
Venting not an issue though as it's a single storey extension so we could vent pretty much straight up through the roof.
We started with a Gorenje one, but that hung too low and would have needed some serious modding to the mounting frame/kit to work for us (reminds me I must list it on ebay or something).
Finally went with an Elica one that was much more compact packaging (mind you very expensive too), only projects about 30cm down from ceiling. The main issue for us was constructing a suitable "sub-frame" to hang it off as all the mounting points lined up with RSJ that holds the middle of the roof up.
Venting not an issue though as it's a single storey extension so we could vent pretty much straight up through the roof.
First off, I'm assuming the hob you want to put in is induction or electric i.e. not gas?
Second, i think you need to think carefully about two things:
1. What are you expecting to cook on it and hence how much extraction do you need - steam from a couple of simmering pans is a completely different situation to grilling/frying meat, fish etc.
2. How much noise are you willing to put up with for efficient extraction? Powerful internal fans even on just the lowest setting can be quite noisy and even if you are going for an external motor you have to think about where it's going and your duct runs or it could be just as noisy as an internal one.
If it's an induction hob, I'd go for a pop up one in the island.
Second, i think you need to think carefully about two things:
1. What are you expecting to cook on it and hence how much extraction do you need - steam from a couple of simmering pans is a completely different situation to grilling/frying meat, fish etc.
2. How much noise are you willing to put up with for efficient extraction? Powerful internal fans even on just the lowest setting can be quite noisy and even if you are going for an external motor you have to think about where it's going and your duct runs or it could be just as noisy as an internal one.
If it's an induction hob, I'd go for a pop up one in the island.
umm maybe ill stick with the pop up extractor then. Im starting to wonder though if ill even be able to vent it out properly, ill have to dig up the floor screed which is about 80mm thick and can't go any lower.
Im not sure if one of those rectangular vent pipes would be ok, suppose better than recirculating.
Its a decent sized but really awkward kitchen to do a design for. Effectively only got 2 walls to go against, one is internal, one is a external with window.
If the ceiling joists ran the other way it would be a lot easier to duct out with a ceiling extractor. Or i would have to make some bizarre looking dropped ceiling which had to run to outside iykwim.
Im not sure if one of those rectangular vent pipes would be ok, suppose better than recirculating.
Its a decent sized but really awkward kitchen to do a design for. Effectively only got 2 walls to go against, one is internal, one is a external with window.
If the ceiling joists ran the other way it would be a lot easier to duct out with a ceiling extractor. Or i would have to make some bizarre looking dropped ceiling which had to run to outside iykwim.
80mm is not a lot if that's the absolute max. depth you have. For good airflow, 100mm round ducting is about the minimum you ever want to go to and most extractor outlets are 150mm.
If you're willing to throw a bit of money at the problem, I'd recommend having a chat with Westin. I spent way too much money with them on our extraction, but in the end got exactly what I wanted out of it.
http://www.westin.co.uk/
If you're willing to throw a bit of money at the problem, I'd recommend having a chat with Westin. I spent way too much money with them on our extraction, but in the end got exactly what I wanted out of it.
http://www.westin.co.uk/
Yes 80mm is very very tight and i just don't think it would work properly.
Thinking about it i could use a ceiling extractor built into a dropped ceiling and vent out the way the joists above run. It would not be easy but id have to:
Build a dropped ceiling.
run duct over to the wall punch through this wall and then go into the roof space of that room and then into a roof tile vent.
The room is open plan to the kitchen and was closed off, is single story and has had the supporting wall removed and a steel put in place. Looking at it i reckon it might well work, id have to find a roof vent capable of taking 150mm duct.
May well be more effective than trying to get the downdraft to work properly.
Thinking about it i could use a ceiling extractor built into a dropped ceiling and vent out the way the joists above run. It would not be easy but id have to:
Build a dropped ceiling.
run duct over to the wall punch through this wall and then go into the roof space of that room and then into a roof tile vent.
The room is open plan to the kitchen and was closed off, is single story and has had the supporting wall removed and a steel put in place. Looking at it i reckon it might well work, id have to find a roof vent capable of taking 150mm duct.
May well be more effective than trying to get the downdraft to work properly.
The thing I've learned is that ducting kills the extraction rate unless you choose it carefully.
Just recently our builder put in some 60x204mm flat ducting with a few bends and it had very poor airflow despite him being told it was 'equivalent' to 150mm round tube. I looked up the numbers and was quite surprised at the differences in pressure loss compared to flat 90x220mm.
Examples of pressure loss in pascals (at 60l/sec, first number is 90x220, second number is 60x204):
Flat 1 metre: 0.95 5.1
Elbow 90 degrees into 150mm round: 9.0 67.0
Vertical 90 degree bend: 7.0 45.0
The ducting as built had a total pressure loss of 149 pascals. Replacing it like-for-like with Megaduct flat 90x220 dropped it to 35, and redesigning it a bit dropped it still further to 21 pascals. The airflow difference is huge.
Numbers for the 90x220 items are in the middle of this page: http://www.nationalventilation.co.uk/category/flat...
The Megaduct stuff is available from TLC Electrical.
Lots of general information about the principles and execution of extraction here:
https://www.caple.co.uk/downloads/brochures/2017/e...
Just recently our builder put in some 60x204mm flat ducting with a few bends and it had very poor airflow despite him being told it was 'equivalent' to 150mm round tube. I looked up the numbers and was quite surprised at the differences in pressure loss compared to flat 90x220mm.
Examples of pressure loss in pascals (at 60l/sec, first number is 90x220, second number is 60x204):
Flat 1 metre: 0.95 5.1
Elbow 90 degrees into 150mm round: 9.0 67.0
Vertical 90 degree bend: 7.0 45.0
The ducting as built had a total pressure loss of 149 pascals. Replacing it like-for-like with Megaduct flat 90x220 dropped it to 35, and redesigning it a bit dropped it still further to 21 pascals. The airflow difference is huge.
Numbers for the 90x220 items are in the middle of this page: http://www.nationalventilation.co.uk/category/flat...
The Megaduct stuff is available from TLC Electrical.
Lots of general information about the principles and execution of extraction here:
https://www.caple.co.uk/downloads/brochures/2017/e...
Interesting about the extraction getting worse, i fear my idea of ducting several meters with various bends might just be crap.
Maybe ill just stick to a recirculating design and then fit an extra inline fan within a cupboard if it doesn't clear the air well enough. Been doing my head in for ages trying to decide whats best, as its a balance of performance, looks and cost.
Ive found an ex display one of these, apparently no marks etc looks good as well (if your into that sort of thing)
https://appliance-source.co.uk/cr700-copper-cerami...
Maybe ill just stick to a recirculating design and then fit an extra inline fan within a cupboard if it doesn't clear the air well enough. Been doing my head in for ages trying to decide whats best, as its a balance of performance, looks and cost.
Ive found an ex display one of these, apparently no marks etc looks good as well (if your into that sort of thing)
https://appliance-source.co.uk/cr700-copper-cerami...
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