Decisions, decisions ...
Discussion
Taffy66 said:
I drove both 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GTS back to back at the PEC last July and found them develop a totally polar opposite character when driven flat out on a circuit..I also owned a 991.2 GTS coupe and now have a 991.2GT3.
In isolation the GTS is impressive on track due to its wonderful torquey engine and agility if its fitted with the must have RAS..Its only when you jump straight into a 991.1GT3 and its immediate sensory overload..The PDKS with its seven close ratios is brutal compared to the still brilliant PDK in the GTS.
Two major shortcomings of the GTS when driven flat out on a track are the standard Pirelli P zeros and steel brakes can't cope with the torque of the engine..The Cup 2's and 380mm steels on the GT3 are in a different league IME on a track..The gen 1 GT3 does suffer from a distinct lack of low to mid range torque compared to the GTS..
The PDKS and glass shattering high pitched scream of the GT3 is irresistible and where i'd put my money.Just make sure you buy a non abused one preferably with the G engine with clubsport.
If i was buying another GTS i'd spec folding buckets and PCCBs and try the optional Pirelli Corsas..Now that would be a proper weapon..
PS I derive great pleasure on spending other people's money..
PDKS is principally a software change from PDK. The gears are lighter, have closer ratios, and have a different lubrication system, but the weight saving for the complete gearbox is only 1.8Kg, so 2%...! I love how the engineers have been able to make the same gearbox feel quite different in both applications.....The lack of a creep function on the GT3 does make for interesting parallel parking though....In isolation the GTS is impressive on track due to its wonderful torquey engine and agility if its fitted with the must have RAS..Its only when you jump straight into a 991.1GT3 and its immediate sensory overload..The PDKS with its seven close ratios is brutal compared to the still brilliant PDK in the GTS.
Two major shortcomings of the GTS when driven flat out on a track are the standard Pirelli P zeros and steel brakes can't cope with the torque of the engine..The Cup 2's and 380mm steels on the GT3 are in a different league IME on a track..The gen 1 GT3 does suffer from a distinct lack of low to mid range torque compared to the GTS..
The PDKS and glass shattering high pitched scream of the GT3 is irresistible and where i'd put my money.Just make sure you buy a non abused one preferably with the G engine with clubsport.
If i was buying another GTS i'd spec folding buckets and PCCBs and try the optional Pirelli Corsas..Now that would be a proper weapon..
PS I derive great pleasure on spending other people's money..
As for the increased torque in the gen 2 GT3, I have to say its marginal...
I also find the differences between the gen 1 and 2 incremental in most aspects..I actually prefer the gen i engine at the very top of the rev range, it just seems to be more concentrated and a slightly higher pitched scream..
I can't wait to find out how much different the new RS feels as on paper its only a measly 20hp and 7 lb/ft torque with an identical 1430 Kg kerb weight.
I can't wait to find out how much different the new RS feels as on paper its only a measly 20hp and 7 lb/ft torque with an identical 1430 Kg kerb weight.
Taffy66 said:
I drove both 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GTS back to back at the PEC last July and found them develop a totally polar opposite character when driven flat out on a circuit..I also owned a 991.2 GTS coupe and now have a 991.2GT3.
In isolation the GTS is impressive on track due to its wonderful torquey engine and agility if its fitted with the must have RAS..Its only when you jump straight into a 991.1GT3 and its immediate sensory overload..The PDKS with its seven close ratios is brutal compared to the still brilliant PDK in the GTS.
Two major shortcomings of the GTS when driven flat out on a track are the standard Pirelli P zeros and steel brakes can't cope with the torque of the engine..The Cup 2's and 380mm steels on the GT3 are in a different league IME on a track..The gen 1 GT3 does suffer from a distinct lack of low to mid range torque compared to the GTS..
The PDKS and glass shattering high pitched scream of the GT3 is irresistible and where i'd put my money.Just make sure you buy a non abused one preferably with the G engine with clubsport.
If i was buying another GTS i'd spec folding buckets and PCCBs and try the optional Pirelli Corsas..Now that would be a proper weapon..
PS I derive great pleasure on spending other people's money..
Not sure how much track work I’ll do with whichever car I buy - had talked about taking the M4 on track, but not done so yet. I do have a driver training course coming up which has a logical next step of moving to track work, so who knows if that will become a more regular fixture.In isolation the GTS is impressive on track due to its wonderful torquey engine and agility if its fitted with the must have RAS..Its only when you jump straight into a 991.1GT3 and its immediate sensory overload..The PDKS with its seven close ratios is brutal compared to the still brilliant PDK in the GTS.
Two major shortcomings of the GTS when driven flat out on a track are the standard Pirelli P zeros and steel brakes can't cope with the torque of the engine..The Cup 2's and 380mm steels on the GT3 are in a different league IME on a track..The gen 1 GT3 does suffer from a distinct lack of low to mid range torque compared to the GTS..
The PDKS and glass shattering high pitched scream of the GT3 is irresistible and where i'd put my money.Just make sure you buy a non abused one preferably with the G engine with clubsport.
If i was buying another GTS i'd spec folding buckets and PCCBs and try the optional Pirelli Corsas..Now that would be a proper weapon..
PS I derive great pleasure on spending other people's money..
Reading about your description of the characteristics of the 2 cars does make me think I need to go and do a track day or two to see what I’ve been missing and who knows, I may be converted to needing some metal poles in my life, even though I personally prefer the look of the GT3 without the scaffolding
As far as spending other people’s money, I really wouldn’t worry about it, my wife is a black belt at it
RT964 said:
I think the back seats in my M4 have been used precisely 4 times in 18 months of ownership, so I’d probably get away with it in the GT3, however I do occasionally need to do some short-ish trips around town when SWMBO is out in “her” Range Rover. Is a GT3 really able to be a daily (head starts doing accelerated man maths !)?
many moons ago I ordered a new 997 C2S instead of one of the very last 996 GT3's that I planned to purchase because I thought I'd use the rear seats, but hardly ever did, always took the wife's car or my mk2 Golf when I needed the extra space. after a little while I realised my error and traded the 997 for a 996 GT3 RS (which of course was night and day different in feel, sense of occasion, track performance etc) and since then I've always had GT products as I've been spoilt. Am sure you could use a GT3, especially a PDK equipped car as a daily, just make sure it has the 'front lift' option for getting in and out of multi-story car parks. given that you seem a bit underwhelmed by your M4, and already enjoy the sensation of an old school 911 (your 964), I think the GTS would not hit the spot entirely, and you're ready for the double shot hit that any GT3 will provide. fire up the man maths calculator !
GT3 is perfect to daily. I did 20000 miles in mine in 18 months of driving. So 4k a year is perfectly doable. Also 991 gt3 is probably the one that will have the least depreciation, don't bother with the 991.2 gt3 too much money (almost a 996gt3 more) for small updates that if you hadn't driven you wouldn't know you needed.
So 991 gt3, or a 991.2 gts. I would go gt3
So 991 gt3, or a 991.2 gts. I would go gt3
cowboyengineer said:
GT3 is perfect to daily. I did 20000 miles in mine in 18 months of driving. So 4k a year is perfectly doable. Also 991 gt3 is probably the one that will have the least depreciation, don't bother with the 991.2 gt3 too much money (almost a 996gt3 more) for small updates that if you hadn't driven you wouldn't know you needed.
unless you wanted a manual ! I would also not say a GT3 is a perfect daily either, but it is usable I guess, not sure how many times you will see 9k in a GT3 being used as a daily, I would rather a 2WD turbo GTS myself, but then I don't need a daily as such.Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 27th February 09:18
IREvans said:
You are correct, the GTS would be the most sensible option, but life's too short to be sensible...It's hard to look past the GT3 at similar money to a 991.2 GTS....That noise at 8,800rpm is something else.
This seems to becoming a bit of a head vs heart decision ... I agree that the GTS would be the slightly more sensible choice, but then again, haven't I got an RRS for "sensible" ?IREvans said:
Anyway, what do you make of the M4 CP..? I see a few cheap lease deals floating around...I've had an M2, and quite liked that. Wondering if another 100Bhp, and a bit more weight is my kind of thing...?
The M4 is a good car with lots going for it. I personally prefer it's looks to the M2 (which seems a bit short and dumpy in my eyes). The engine has got an awful lot of grunt and will put a smile on your face when you boot it in the dry. The front end grip is great, but the back end can be a bit lively if you don't treat it with respect. You also don't want to be exploring the upper rev range when it's damp or you end up with the yellow traction control light on all the time, as when you change gear you are dropping right into peak torque, so will break the tyres traction on the road quite easily. It's definitely worth a test drive.seawise said:
many moons ago I ordered a new 997 C2S instead of one of the very last 996 GT3's that I planned to purchase because I thought I'd use the rear seats, but hardly ever did, always took the wife's car or my mk2 Golf when I needed the extra space. after a little while I realised my error and traded the 997 for a 996 GT3 RS (which of course was night and day different in feel, sense of occasion, track performance etc) and since then I've always had GT products as I've been spoilt. Am sure you could use a GT3, especially a PDK equipped car as a daily, just make sure it has the 'front lift' option for getting in and out of multi-story car parks.
given that you seem a bit underwhelmed by your M4, and already enjoy the sensation of an old school 911 (your 964), I think the GTS would not hit the spot entirely, and you're ready for the double shot hit that any GT3 will provide. fire up the man maths calculator !
given that you seem a bit underwhelmed by your M4, and already enjoy the sensation of an old school 911 (your 964), I think the GTS would not hit the spot entirely, and you're ready for the double shot hit that any GT3 will provide. fire up the man maths calculator !
cowboyengineer said:
GT3 is perfect to daily. I did 20000 miles in mine in 18 months of driving. So 4k a year is perfectly doable. Also 991 gt3 is probably the one that will have the least depreciation, don't bother with the 991.2 gt3 too much money (almost a 996gt3 more) for small updates that if you hadn't driven you wouldn't know you needed.
So 991 gt3, or a 991.2 gts. I would go gt3
20,000 miles in 18 months certainly qualifies your usage as being a daily driver ! I've done 6,500 miles in 18 months in my M4 which has been a mixture of office/client trips, runs to the airport and quite a few trips to seek out some great driving roads, and I do always try and take the scenic route whenever possible (except the 5am run to LHR !).So 991 gt3, or a 991.2 gts. I would go gt3
cowboyengineer said:
GT3 is perfect to daily. I did 20000 miles in mine in 18 months of driving. So 4k a year is perfectly doable. Also 991 gt3 is probably the one that will have the least depreciation, don't bother with the 991.2 gt3 too much money (almost a 996gt3 more) for small updates that if you hadn't driven you wouldn't know you needed.
So 991 gt3, or a 991.2 gts. I would go gt3
Great point you've made regarding the GT3 updates from 991.1 to 991.2So 991 gt3, or a 991.2 gts. I would go gt3
I didn't want to get involved in a depreciation thread for the OP, but the GT3 will almost certainly retain more of its value than the GTS....
IREvans said:
Great point you've made regarding the GT3 updates from 991.1 to 991.2
I didn't want to get involved in a depreciation thread for the OP, but the GT3 will almost certainly retain more of its value than the GTS....
The dreaded “D” word. It’s certainly something to consider as part of this process ... and an illustration is always helpful ...I didn't want to get involved in a depreciation thread for the OP, but the GT3 will almost certainly retain more of its value than the GTS....
From my friendly finance broker I got the following residuals based on 36 months at 5k miles pa:
991.1 GTS, 15 plate, 15000 miles, currently up for sale at £85k - £40k residual
991.2 GTS, 17 plate, 1000 miles, currently up for sale at £103k - £43k residual
991.1 GT3, 64 plate, 12000 miles, currently up for sale at £120k - £56k residual
This says to me that the finance market doesn’t have a great deal of faith in the gen 2 991, or am I missing something ?
i had an M4 Comp Pack, i also test drove a GTS 991.2, it was better than the M4 in every way from a driving perspective apart from reduced amount of pops and bangs from the exhaust 
you won't be disappointed... though if i was prepared to pay overs for a gen1 GT3 thats what i'd buy without question, however i'm not so its not happening 
lol
you won't be disappointed... though if i was prepared to pay overs for a gen1 GT3 thats what i'd buy without question, however i'm not so its not happening lolNano2nd said:
i had an M4 Comp Pack, i also test drove a GTS 991.2, it was better than the M4 in every way from a driving perspective apart from reduced amount of pops and bangs from the exhaust you won't be disappointed... though if i was prepared to pay overs for a gen1 GT3 thats what i'd buy without question, however i'm not so its not happening lol
Yes, the M4 can do some quite impressive pops and bangs, particularly when you are pressing on you won't be disappointed... though if i was prepared to pay overs for a gen1 GT3 thats what i'd buy without question, however i'm not so its not happening lol. I think that the gen 1 991 GT3's are pretty much back to list price-ish - £120k to £125k is around the cost of a gen 2 one to my spec on the configurator, and there are half a dozen or so on the Porsche website at that money with the cheapest one down at £111k, although that does have quite a few more miles on it than the others currently for sale. It also seems to have been sat at the dealer's for quite some time as the video walk around has trees with leaves in the background !
RT964 said:
Yes, the M4 can do some quite impressive pops and bangs, particularly when you are pressing on .
I think that the gen 1 991 GT3's are pretty much back to list price-ish - £120k to £125k is around the cost of a gen 2 one to my spec on the configurator, and there are half a dozen or so on the Porsche website at that money with the cheapest one down at £111k, although that does have quite a few more miles on it than the others currently for sale. It also seems to have been sat at the dealer's for quite some time as the video walk around has trees with leaves in the background !
as i recall gen 1s were quite a bit cheaper new, i remember spec'ing one sensibly (clubsport) to about £109k... and thats the figure i'm stuck on lol . I think that the gen 1 991 GT3's are pretty much back to list price-ish - £120k to £125k is around the cost of a gen 2 one to my spec on the configurator, and there are half a dozen or so on the Porsche website at that money with the cheapest one down at £111k, although that does have quite a few more miles on it than the others currently for sale. It also seems to have been sat at the dealer's for quite some time as the video walk around has trees with leaves in the background !
gen1 clubsports are still £125k+
Nano2nd said:
as i recall gen 1s were quite a bit cheaper new, i remember spec'ing one sensibly (clubsport) to about £109k... and thats the figure i'm stuck on lol
gen1 clubsports are still £125k+
You were very stingy if you managed to spec a basic £100,540 basic gen 991GT3 to only £109K..The average spend was about £115K or £120+ with the PCCBs.gen1 clubsports are still £125k+
Taffy66 said:
You were very stingy if you managed to spec a basic £100,540 basic gen 991GT3 to only £109K..The average spend was about £115K or £120+ with the PCCBs.
stingy? sensible more like! what do you really need? folding buckets, dimming mirrors, cruise, bose, lift, clubsport pack - wouldn't want PCCBsGassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff