993 Carrera S - A few questions

[Cheib]

Had a search but can’t really find what I want so new thread!

I’ve always loved the 993 Carrera S, never owned a 993 but am considering buying one over the next few months. Air cooled markets seems a bit softer so maybe I can get a car at a slightly more realistic price. Might sell my manual 997 GTS to get it but might not as I really like it! Probably run both for a while and see which I prefer.

I’d be interested in people’s opinions on them ?
How different are they to drive compared to a regular 993 Carrera ?
Any fettling that can be done for sensible money ?
Any particular 993 experts in London or SE ? I’m near JZM and RPM
Views on the 2 vs the 4 ?

Couple of mates have 993’s and both have had some big bills but neither are used as much as they should be!

[Taffy66]

993S has always been more desirable in the used market than the standard version..A lot of people however prefer the narrower body of the non S which is also 50Kg lighter..
The 4WD version was the first 911 which was comparable to the 2WD and only 50Kg heavier whereas the previous 911 was a portly 100Kg..Some put too much emphasis on the 285hp variocam over the pre-variocam 272hp,in reality undetectable improvement in performance.
The cabrio versions were very highly regarded at the time and actually weighed 40Kg less than the coupe and rode better as well.
I'd be tempted by a standard non S 4WD coupe manual to get the narrower and lighter body which is much more usable in all weather and less prone to understeer.
All versions are great apart from the tiptronics and pretty bombproof build..

[200Plus Club]

Loved mine. The S is deffo fetching more money despite what the narrow body owners will tell you. History and lower mileage is everything and the right car will sell for strong money and give you free or potentially bonus money motoring.
Had mine 2 years and made £20k or so on it while driving the nuts off it and loving every minute . Awesome cars when done right.

To add, proper suspension alignment will cure any wandering and understeer. Point and go cars when working right.

[RT964]

Cheib said:

Had a search but can’t really find what I want so new thread!

I’ve always loved the 993 Carrera S, never owned a 993 but am considering buying one over the next few months. Air cooled markets seems a bit softer so maybe I can get a car at a slightly more realistic price. Might sell my manual 997 GTS to get it but might not as I really like it! Probably run both for a while and see which I prefer.

I’d be interested in people’s opinions on them ?
How different are they to drive compared to a regular 993 Carrera ?
Any fettling that can be done for sensible money ?
Any particular 993 experts in London or SE ? I’m near JZM and RPM
Views on the 2 vs the 4 ?

Couple of mates have 993’s and both have had some big bills but neither are used as much as they should be!

I've used GT One in Chertsey for the past 18 years on my 964, and the guys have proven to be a great find doing everything from a minor oil change to major open heart surgery in rebuilding the engine. Would recommend them in a heartbeat. Have tried a number of other guys for work (JZM, Tognolo) prior to coming across GT One, but have seen no need to go anywhere else since.

[Cheib]

Thanks Gents, that’s very helpful. I know a lot of people view the narrow body cars as being the purer more classic 911 but Inlike the big hops of wide body cars...my GTS is a wide body.

I have done a bit of reading myself and found the weight difference Taffy mentions for the S also read that the 4S has the Turbo brakes and “trick rear suspension” from the Turbo. Can anyone enlighten on the latter in particular? How does the 4S drive relative to the S ?

[200Plus Club]

Cheib said:

Thanks Gents, that’s very helpful. I know a lot of people view the narrow body cars as being the purer more classic 911 but Inlike the big hops of wide body cars...my GTS is a wide body.

I have done a bit of reading myself and found the weight difference Taffy mentions for the S also read that the 4S has the Turbo brakes and “trick rear suspension” from the Turbo. Can anyone enlighten on the latter in particular? How does the 4S drive relative to the S ?

In reality there is a little weight difference but in the real world on a country lane no benefit or loss. The 4s is also very sought after, again over a std narrow body. Buy one that's had all the suspension overhauled if it's done 70k or more, or budget 3k for doing it all right. The S models tend to have lower firmer suspension by a little over std cars that's All, nothing trick as such. Think mine was -5mm or -10mm different as such.

Mileage is the killer on value for some reason 100k miles plus scares people but it shouldn't really. All the big value cars are low miles and hardly used which is a shame because they are great drivers cars.

If you want a cheaper useable 993 consider one of the many narrow body cars. If you want a potentially better investment you'll need to watch the miles on it will be an S or even turbo!

[Cheib]

I’ll be buying on Spec/Condition...and don’t want a garage queen that I can’t put miles on but it won’t be doing mega miles either. I’ll put 5kmiles a year absolute max on a car like this.

[Cheib]

RPM have this red 2S with 140k miles on it at £67k. Seems like they’re asking that money because of the amount its had spent on it. Not sure I want a red one, deffo don’t want the spoiler and interior is not for me! I imagine taking the spoiler off to fit the standard retractable one isn’t cheap.

https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/993-carrera...

JZM have this one in Vesuvius which is a colour you need to see and they’ve had it for a while.Also has some small mods to it.£88k for a 62k mile car

https://www.jzmporsche.com/used-vehicle-details/Po...

OPC Leeds have this 60k mile car for £90k. Blue with the Turbo spoiler

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Anything close to £90k is too much money for one of these IMHO unless it has 10k miles and you don’t want to use it!

HWM have a couple but their reputation precedes them!

[moonigan]

Cheib said:

RPM have this red 2S with 140k miles on it at £67k. Seems like they’re asking that money because of the amount its had spent on it. Not sure I want a red one, deffo don’t want the spoiler and interior is not for me! I imagine taking the spoiler off to fit the standard retractable one isn’t cheap.

https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/993-carrera...

JZM have this one in Vesuvius which is a colour you need to see and they’ve had it for a while.Also has some small mods to it.£88k for a 62k mile car

https://www.jzmporsche.com/used-vehicle-details/Po...

OPC Leeds have this 60k mile car for £90k. Blue with the Turbo spoiler

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Anything close to £90k is too much money for one of these IMHO unless it has 10k miles and you don’t want to use it!

HWM have a couple but their reputation precedes them!

The one at Leeds is a rare beast as its also got the Turbo rear wings which I imagine was a spendy option. Having had both a 993 C4S and a 997 there is nothing other than investment value that would get me back into a 993. If I was looking for something to tuck in the garage for sunny days then I'd be looking at a GT car of some description.

[Cheib]

moonigan said:

The one at Leeds is a rare beast as its also got the Turbo rear wings which I imagine was a spendy option. Having had both a 993 C4S and a 997 there is nothing other than investment value that would get me back into a 993. If I was looking for something to tuck in the garage for sunny days then I'd be looking at a GT car of some description.

Fair point...it’s not investment value more carnal want! I have the GT box ticked already. Need to drive one, long time since I have been in a 993. Maybe the spectacles are too rose tinted.

[Geneve]

Had three 993s, two ordered new from the factory, and drove several variants.

I’d be interested in people’s opinions on them ?
The 993 was the best developed iteration of the 'aircooled' 911, although, IMO, not necessarily the best 'classic' 911. And the 996 was a step change in improvement.

How different are they to drive compared to a regular 993 Carrera ?
The narrow bodied/wide bodied cars are very similar to drive. The wide bodied cars offer no advantages and I always preferred the narrow bodied Coupes. It rides and drives better on 17s, but looks better on 18s (but make sure 'hollow spokes' for lower USW)

Any fettling that can be done for sensible money ?
Best to keep standard and original - but RSR exhausts (Carnewal) and the Chip-wizard re-map (by Wayne Schofield) are popular. Most 993s need running maintenance. Every year there'll be something that needs a refresh.

Any particular 993 experts in London or SE ? I’m near JZM and RPM
Can't answer, I always used my OPC, but JZM excellent

Views on the 2 vs the 4 ?
Interestingly, the two best 993s I ever drove were both 6-spd, C4 , standard Varioram Coupes. However, these days I'd be less worried about 2 or 4 wd, wide or narrow body - I'd just try to seek out the best possible example of a manual Coupe. Essential options are Sports Seats and working aircon.

Edited by Geneve on Thursday 1st March 09:27

[Cheib]

Tanks Gents, very helpful posts. My perfect car would probably be silver but the my GTS is Silver so maybe not! And colour as has been said is not the most important.

Evidence of mainetnance/servicing that supports the mileage will be up there as a priority.

I don’t live in London moved out to South Bucks a couple of years ago and actually gave up on trying to run nice cars from mid 2000’s with on street parking (had multiple wheel/part thefts from various cars). So I’ve now got the space to keep cars and roads to enjoy them on...and lucky enough to be in an area where there are plenty of specialists. RPM and JZM are very local and then the likes of Fearnsport and Autofarm aren’t too far away.

[200Plus Club]

Cheib said:

Tanks Gents, very helpful posts. My perfect car would probably be silver but the my GTS is Silver so maybe not! And colour as has been said is not the most important.

Evidence of mainetnance/servicing that supports the mileage will be up there as a priority.

I don’t live in London moved out to South Bucks a couple of years ago and actually gave up on trying to run nice cars from mid 2000’s with on street parking (had multiple wheel/part thefts from various cars). So I’ve now got the space to keep cars and roads to enjoy them on...and lucky enough to be in an area where there are plenty of specialists. RPM and JZM are very local and then the likes of Fearnsport and Autofarm aren’t too far away.

deffo buy one with comprehensive service history (invoices and stamps) plus MOTS if poss. mine had 17 stamps, 16 invoices (one was never presented in the late 90s) and every single MOT to back up the miles to some extent as it is easy to swap speedos etc.
Avoid the gash interior colours as well, and buyers are very choosy with certain paint colours at resale.

I loved mine, it was fab, but it is a 20yr old car and quite basic.

[n12maser]

to give some more info on typical costs to fix/refresh/upgrade typical bits and pieces...I bought mine in Aug 2016 and it had 112,000 miles. Only use it as a fair weather car doing around 4,000 miles a year. Since buying, on top of annual services + insurance (cheap as classic) + petrol, my costs are about £6.5k:

- £85 xenon headlights kit
- £120 amber front indicators
- £4700 complete suspension refresh - Bilstein PSS10 (parts + labour @ JAZ)
- £350 hayward & scott exhaust bypass welded in
- £1400 steering rack refurb (was leaking), new plates

[browngt3]

I have a C4S and in the past had a C2. Not that much difference between them as drivers cars especially if your coming from something more modern like a 997GTS. I bought the C4S from my Dad about 4 years ago and interestingly he was looking at going to a 997GTS. He was blown away by the difference. i.e. superior performance handling etc. Thing is though the 993's get under your skin - they have so much charisma - and as someone else said they make such good all rounders.

If you can keep the GTS then you will have the best of all worlds. I was lucky enough to get a 991.2GT3 and although they are like night and day in performance the 993 is the one that somehow feels really special. And what I like too is the power is about right for public roads so you can extend it a bit without reaching ridiculous speeds.

I would recommend the wide-body mainly for looks and rarity appeal but ultimately it's condition that counts the most.

[200Plus Club]

n12maser said:

to give some more info on typical costs to fix/refresh/upgrade typical bits and pieces...I bought mine in Aug 2016 and it had 112,000 miles. Only use it as a fair weather car doing around 4,000 miles a year. Since buying, on top of annual services + insurance (cheap as classic) + petrol, my costs are about £6.5k:

- £85 xenon headlights kit
- £120 amber front indicators
- £4700 complete suspension refresh - Bilstein PSS10 (parts + labour @ JAZ)
- £350 hayward & scott exhaust bypass welded in
- £1400 steering rack refurb (was leaking), new plates

Luckily i bought one with all the above done apart from suspension, and agreed a £3k discount for it needing shocks and bumpstops on the PPI. i got all 4 shocks, refurbed arms, new C4 engine mounts and full alignment at Centre Gravity for just under £3k all in.

[throt]

South Bucks Cheib.

I often have a burn in my gen1 around that area. Not far from me..

[Bieldside]

I have had a 9934S for over 18 years

Same car now 64,000 miles as I use it sparingly - no idea why to be honest !

Always serviced by Porsche and recently ONLY by Porsche Brooklands who are so good

Mind you its now 21 years old and I normally pay £3500 + every year as it's a car that needs looking after

I would never ever sell it as it just makes me smile . Its not that fast by current standards , no heated seats , no satnav, no cup holders ............

But I do not care in the least

I would happily sell my GT3 and any Porsche I have had but not the 4S

That's my opinion !

Find a good one and just smile as you drive it

[Cheib]

throt said:

South Bucks Cheib.

I often have a burn in my gen1 around that area. Not far from me..

Well when I get my Gen 2 at the end of next month we can meet up perhaps ?’

[Cheib]

The input on running costs etc is very helpful. My two mates who have 993’s (both Targa’s weirdly) have always said £2K is a minimum annual expenditure although one has had some horrendous bills as it was garaged and got some water ingress which meant new door cards etc.

He’s now looking to have a bare shell resptay but body shop has said will be horrendously expensive as they cant guarantee the Targa mech won’t need lots of replacement parts.

Friend of a friend has a 4S that might be for sale so am waiting to hear on that.