991.1 GT3-RS: GOOD TIME TO BUY...??
Discussion
m33ufo said:
Production numbers on the 991.1 are quite a bit higher. I see the 997.2 holding better value - and of course it's a manual.
I do agree. Already, with the 991.1 GT3 RS trading at, or around the same as the 997.2 3.8 GT3 RS, they former already has the upper hand on holding value.Cheib said:
I'd definitely be holding off unless you have a very specific spec that you want and the right car comes up.
Personally I'd be looking to buy a car in Sep...OPC's have quarterly sales targets to hit at the end of Sep and will be looking to lighten up on inventory ahead of the winter. Q4 last year was the worst quarter some of the specialist/high end dealers had seen in a long time so think they'll be keen to shift stock too.
I'm relatively easy to please on spec. Personally I'd be looking to buy a car in Sep...OPC's have quarterly sales targets to hit at the end of Sep and will be looking to lighten up on inventory ahead of the winter. Q4 last year was the worst quarter some of the specialist/high end dealers had seen in a long time so think they'll be keen to shift stock too.
Thanks for the input.
Digga said:
do agree. Already, with the 991.1 GT3 RS trading at, or around the same as the 997.2 3.8 GT3 RS, they former already has the upper hand on holding value.
No contest there - the 997.2 RS will hold value far better than the 991.1 RS as this has just been replaced and this will continue to happen - numbers on the 997.2 RS much , much smaller and as you say - it's the last manual RS. 
RSVP911 said:
Digga said:
do agree. Already, with the 991.1 GT3 RS trading at, or around the same as the 997.2 3.8 GT3 RS, they former already has the upper hand on holding value.
No contest there - the 997.2 RS will hold value far better than the 991.1 RS as this has just been replaced and this will continue to happen - numbers on the 997.2 RS much , much smaller and as you say - it's the last manual RS. You cannot buy new cars like these anywhere any more. In the not too distant future, we may look back and realise that being able to drive these cars was like being able to own a pet dinosaur. There is also, IMHO, a possibility that in that not too distant future fuel prices (tax) and regulations make it near impossible to use these things (never is a very long time) and, thereby, their value may drop to that of mere ornaments or even scrap. Until then we should enjoy them, and definitely not stow them away in garages or museums.
A few questions , if you wouldn’t mind please...
What was the issue with the 991.1 engine?
Are there any issues with the 997 RS engine ?
The build dates key differences between Gen 1 991 GT3RS and GEN 2 GT3 RS.
I can only think the reason the prices are as firm as they are is that Porsche are holding so much of the stock because of the trade-ins against new cars. As everyone here says “if you want a new GT3RS you have to trade in an old one.”
They can obviously sit on them for a while but, once they’ve been around for too long they have to lower the price, So really they are just controlling the market bit like De Beers and their diamonds ? Am I talking cr@p ?!
What was the issue with the 991.1 engine?
Are there any issues with the 997 RS engine ?
The build dates key differences between Gen 1 991 GT3RS and GEN 2 GT3 RS.
I can only think the reason the prices are as firm as they are is that Porsche are holding so much of the stock because of the trade-ins against new cars. As everyone here says “if you want a new GT3RS you have to trade in an old one.”
They can obviously sit on them for a while but, once they’ve been around for too long they have to lower the price, So really they are just controlling the market bit like De Beers and their diamonds ? Am I talking cr@p ?!
angussampson said:
What was the issue with the 991.1 engine?
The build dates key differences between Gen 1 991 GT3RS and GEN 2 GT3 RS.
See thread and elsewhere: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...The build dates key differences between Gen 1 991 GT3RS and GEN 2 GT3 RS.
There is a Porsche 10 year warranty, but this (obviously) has a finite use.
angussampson said:
Are there any issues with the 997 RS engine ?
Very, very few. You'd need to be both unlucky and highly unsympathetic to get issues.The Mezger engine used (in slightly differing guises and specifications) in all GT3 and GT3 RS from the 996.1 all the way through to the 997.2 4.0 is arguably one of the finest production units ever built. Aside from use in the road cars, it's seen extensive use, worldwide, in various Porsche race series. So it's a really well known and trusted entity.
Two issues I can think of with the 997 GT3 and RS engines are blowing off the coolant pipe from the block and some having more wear than usual than usual circa 80,000;Kms.
Chassis wise there’s the wheel hub failures featured on YouTube.
Great car though, sorry I sold my 2008 gt3 and my 2010 3.8 RS in Porsche Green ( 1 of 17 worldwide and 1 of 2 in RHD, the other is in Australia)
Chassis wise there’s the wheel hub failures featured on YouTube.
Great car though, sorry I sold my 2008 gt3 and my 2010 3.8 RS in Porsche Green ( 1 of 17 worldwide and 1 of 2 in RHD, the other is in Australia)
Phooey said:
Taffy66 said:
No lift,leather or LED Pdls making it a poor spec..Its important to get the essentials when new to make resale easier when the time comes to sell..
No lift would suit me - I don’t need or want it. Couldn’t give a toss about LEDs either. Leather is nice and I’d always pay a few more grand for a car with it, but if the car was cheap(er) like the Reading car then I’d jump in with both feet. It’s got everything I need.Thanks for the replies 👍🏼
That’s so bad, the GT3 is all about the engine ! Porsche must be slightly smirking to themselves if they they can still command / engineer ‘ overs’ on these cars when there no longer bull it proof....may be worth skipping the 991 .1 at these prices!
That’s so bad, the GT3 is all about the engine ! Porsche must be slightly smirking to themselves if they they can still command / engineer ‘ overs’ on these cars when there no longer bull it proof....may be worth skipping the 991 .1 at these prices!
Digga said:
Very, very few. You'd need to be both unlucky and highly unsympathetic to get issues.
Good lord is that false. How many can you handle without shattering your dreams?Just from the top of my head
1) Coolant pipes, they come lose, and you will be lucky no one dies. They fail in every mezger, NA ones apparently fail more.
2) cam bolts come lose and you bin the engine.
3) center locks failures.
4) brake tappets are made of butter.
P.S. Who does in their right mind specs an RS full fat? Good car gods is that a waste of an RS spec. If it's long term/collection get a 0 option all delete car, PTS being the cherry. If to use, as light weight as possible. No carrera wannabe full leather and bose and all that nonsense. RS are obese from factory please don't make them worse.
Full leather and bose and that jazz are for gt3 and carreras, not rs. Right now the cheapest 997.2 RS in europe are those fully loaded cars, some are at least on list for 1 year at 120k euros. A ac and radio delete with all the lightweight options was off the market in a month for 160k, 40k km.
Full leather and bose and that jazz are for gt3 and carreras, not rs. Right now the cheapest 997.2 RS in europe are those fully loaded cars, some are at least on list for 1 year at 120k euros. A ac and radio delete with all the lightweight options was off the market in a month for 160k, 40k km.
luigisayshello said:
Digga said:
Very, very few. You'd need to be both unlucky and highly unsympathetic to get issues.
Good lord is that false. How many can you handle without shattering your dreams?Just from the top of my head
1) Coolant pipes, they come lose, and you will be lucky no one dies. They fail in every mezger, NA ones apparently fail more.
2) cam bolts come lose and you bin the engine.
3) center locks failures.
4) brake tappets are made of butter.
Enjoy the football did we?
And a few beers?
Anyone that looks after these things will agree a few issues are possible - coolant hoses definitely want either pinning or welding, especially before venturing onto a track - but are statistically very rare.
Not sure what centre locks have got to do with the engine, and as for "brake tappets"...
luigisayshello said:
Good lord is that false. How many can you handle without shattering your dreams?
Just from the top of my head
1) Coolant pipes, they come lose, and you will be lucky no one dies. They fail in every mezger, NA ones apparently fail more.
2) cam bolts come lose and you bin the engine.
3) center locks failures.
4) brake tappets are made of butter.
Just from the top of my head
1) Coolant pipes, they come lose, and you will be lucky no one dies. They fail in every mezger, NA ones apparently fail more.
2) cam bolts come lose and you bin the engine.
3) center locks failures.
4) brake tappets are made of butter.
5 X 996 GT3's, never had a coolant pipe failure, 2 x 996 GT2's, never had a coolant pipe failure, 2 X 997 GT3's, never had a coolant pipe failure.
9 X Mezger engined cars, never had a cam bolt come loose/ never binned an engine as result.
Center lock failures ? Fair enough, and the factory revised the design/torqueing procedure....
Brake tappets ??? Pucks I think is the word you're looking for... My guess is the average GT Porsche road car brakes take more abuse than any other road car, as most owners will ditch the standard pads at the faintest sniff of a trackday, the default replacement track worthy pads are effectively endurance race items from Pagid etc, such pads are designed to work at elevated temperatures that Brembo didn't factor into the original design of what was a road car caliper, but the fact it ended up being utilised on the race cars tells you how good a design it was in reality.
Never let the facts get in the way of of a good alarmist post eh ?
Suggest you quit posting inaccurate BS ...
did you track any of your cars ;-)
the pucks issues is not heat imo , the pads wear more at the bottom, this puts the pad at an angle on the pucks and snaps the lower one imho of course , people say change pads 50% worn for PCCB but really you need to do that on steels to reduce the pad angles.
if you add steel pucks you just transfer the heat straight to the fluid !!! bad idea hence they are Ceramic to stop you boiling the fluid.
again race cars don't use this stupid design !!!
A frustrating issue imo.
The GT4 race car uses Brembo mono block calipers ££££ , most cars in the UK GT use AP calipers or Alcon ££££££ !!!
road cars use cheap units !!! you cannot even do a pad swap easy in a GT3/GT4 now !!!
People fit large MC and RS29;s to Cayman R to cure brakes on track !!! it's just all false b
ks and makes more heat !!! the cars needs bigger disks. but people wk over the GT3 MC and run 313mm disks !!! which fade even more !!
FFS People say Porsche make class leading brakes, but they really are cheap basic calipers, with cheap one piece disks.
Nothing track friendly about Porsche brakes. but as I said in the other thread a GT3 R is £500k and the road car is £111k
not that Audi and BMW are any better, cars are built to a price but none make real track hacks, my CLS brakes were shocking would last 1 lap !!
most now have AP after market set ups.
so as always you buy parts to fit needs, but the GT4 seems to have taken over track hack duty at the tracks I visit, so expect nackered GT4 calipers !!!
the pucks issues is not heat imo , the pads wear more at the bottom, this puts the pad at an angle on the pucks and snaps the lower one imho of course , people say change pads 50% worn for PCCB but really you need to do that on steels to reduce the pad angles.
if you add steel pucks you just transfer the heat straight to the fluid !!! bad idea hence they are Ceramic to stop you boiling the fluid.
again race cars don't use this stupid design !!!
A frustrating issue imo.
The GT4 race car uses Brembo mono block calipers ££££ , most cars in the UK GT use AP calipers or Alcon ££££££ !!!
road cars use cheap units !!! you cannot even do a pad swap easy in a GT3/GT4 now !!!
People fit large MC and RS29;s to Cayman R to cure brakes on track !!! it's just all false b
ks and makes more heat !!! the cars needs bigger disks. but people wk over the GT3 MC and run 313mm disks !!! which fade even more !!FFS People say Porsche make class leading brakes, but they really are cheap basic calipers, with cheap one piece disks.
Nothing track friendly about Porsche brakes. but as I said in the other thread a GT3 R is £500k and the road car is £111k
not that Audi and BMW are any better, cars are built to a price but none make real track hacks, my CLS brakes were shocking would last 1 lap !!
most now have AP after market set ups.
so as always you buy parts to fit needs, but the GT4 seems to have taken over track hack duty at the tracks I visit, so expect nackered GT4 calipers !!!
Porsche911R said:
the pucks issues is not heat imo , the pads wear more at the top (or bottom) I forget which, this puts the pad at an angle on the pucks and snaps the lower one imho of course , people say change pads 50% worn for PCCB but really you need to do that on steels to reduce the pad angles.
TBF, I had heard this - have been forewarned to look out for it - but it does not happen all the time.Porsche911R said:
did you track any of your cars ;-)
the pucks issues is not heat imo , the pads wear more at the bottom, this puts the pad at an angle on the pucks and snaps the lower one imho of course , people say change pads 50% worn for PCCB but really you need to do that on steels to reduce the pad angles.
if you add steel pucks you just transfer the heat straight to the fluid !!! bad idea hence they are Ceramic to stop you boiling the fluid.
again race cars don't use this stupid design !!!
A frustrating issue imo.
The GT4 race car uses Brembo mono block calipers ££££ , most cars in the UK GT use AP calipers or Alcon ££££££ !!!
road cars use cheap units !!! you cannot even do a pad swap easy in a GT3/GT4 now !!!
People fit large MC and RS29;s to Cayman R to cure brakes on track !!! it's just all false bks and makes more heat !!! the cars needs bigger disks. but people wk over the GT3 MC and run 313mm disks !!! which fade even more !!
FFS People say Porsche make class leading brakes, but they really are cheap basic calipers, with cheap one piece disks.
Nothing track friendly about Porsche brakes. but as I said in the other thread a GT3 R is £500k and the road car is £111k
not that Audi and BMW are any better, cars are built to a price but none make real track hacks, my CLS brakes were shocking would last 1 lap !!
most now have AP after market set ups.
so as always you buy parts to fit needs, but the GT4 seems to have taken over track hack duty at the tracks I visit, so expect nackered GT4 calipers !!!
Another ill thought out rant about numerous different issues that makes little or no sense, nor has any real relevance to the topic in question David the pucks issues is not heat imo , the pads wear more at the bottom, this puts the pad at an angle on the pucks and snaps the lower one imho of course , people say change pads 50% worn for PCCB but really you need to do that on steels to reduce the pad angles.
if you add steel pucks you just transfer the heat straight to the fluid !!! bad idea hence they are Ceramic to stop you boiling the fluid.
again race cars don't use this stupid design !!!
A frustrating issue imo.
The GT4 race car uses Brembo mono block calipers ££££ , most cars in the UK GT use AP calipers or Alcon ££££££ !!!
road cars use cheap units !!! you cannot even do a pad swap easy in a GT3/GT4 now !!!
People fit large MC and RS29;s to Cayman R to cure brakes on track !!! it's just all false b
ks and makes more heat !!! the cars needs bigger disks. but people wk over the GT3 MC and run 313mm disks !!! which fade even more !!FFS People say Porsche make class leading brakes, but they really are cheap basic calipers, with cheap one piece disks.
Nothing track friendly about Porsche brakes. but as I said in the other thread a GT3 R is £500k and the road car is £111k
not that Audi and BMW are any better, cars are built to a price but none make real track hacks, my CLS brakes were shocking would last 1 lap !!
most now have AP after market set ups.
so as always you buy parts to fit needs, but the GT4 seems to have taken over track hack duty at the tracks I visit, so expect nackered GT4 calipers !!!
0/10As for you opening question, I suspect you know the answer to it. So :
A. Why ask it ? If it's your sad attempt at belittlement, I suggest you grow up.
B. Why the use of the franky pathetic (and I suspect facetious) use of the winking eye ? See above for response.
I think it may be time for you to take a self imposed sojourn away from the PH Porsche forum David, as you're once again becoming increasingly tiresome.
And FWIW, I never said heat was the issue that caused the ceramic pucks to crack.
You bought into the Cayman GT4 "thing", most realise that the bean counters at Audi rule the roost at Stuttgart now. ergo profit is everything, that means there'll be corners cut when it comes to the quality/durability of the components fitted to a modern Porsche, and believe it not, that will extend to brake calipers and their design too.
So it's hardly surprising GT3/4 pads aren't easily removable anymore, if a cheaper to manufacture caliper does the same job as a more expensive, quick release (from a pad perspective) item, guess which the bean counters will sanction ? Not rocket science is it ?
As I said on the other thread, consider what you post before writing a nonsensical brain dump such as the two you've done today, they just add to the impression you're a bit of troll who hasn't the first idea what he's talking about ...
Oh, and do let us know when you've found a supplier for that new replacement ceramic puck that's rendering all modern Porsche parts unsuitable for refurbishment won't you ?
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