991.1 GT3-RS: GOOD TIME TO BUY...??
Discussion
isaldiri said:
Porsche911R said:
.... but what miles do on these cars is change values of them quite a lot.
As always buy new at list , use it as much as you like.
Buying at list or otherwise doesn't change the fact putting miles on the car is going to affect the current financial value of it by a considerable amount. For something that as you say which indeed is 'not hard to grasp', your last line seems to suggest it might be harder than you think.As always buy new at list , use it as much as you like.
isaldiri said:
Buying at list or otherwise doesn't change the fact putting miles on the car is going to affect the current financial value of it by a considerable amount. For something that as you say which indeed is 'not hard to grasp', your last line seems to suggest it might be harder than you think.
It’s means if you bought it at list and used It you would still get more than list today and when you bought you expected it to go down so a massive win if you bought it at list price and got 20k miles under your belt.If you buy at overs and use it expect to loose big money.
As I said not hard to grasp me thinks, although reading this thread it seems it is.
MDL111 said:
A forgone gain is easier on the wallet than an actual cash loss though, esp if on finance and not a long term keeper ....
Exactly this..! An income foregone is not equivalent to an actual realised cash lost on resale..I'm in full agreement with Mr D on this and find it very 'simple to grasp'.!It reminds me of a poster (can't remember who) who responded to my post a while back, where i stated i was happy to return my well used GT Porsche at list to my OPC, in exchange for the latest one..This unnamed poster seemed it think i was flipping it !
Flipping is taking an allocation on the latest GT Porsche, with no intention of even driving it whatsoever, and immediately selling it on for a huge cash profit..
It sometimes surprises me how some people manage to make money in the first place, to allow them to buy nice cars..A lot of them i expect have inherited wealth made on the back of having smart hard working parents..
hunter 66 said:
Yes Yellow . track time for the JPS car ( after some Hooning in Le Mans with Macca ) , as you know race RS engine issue again ...liner cracked
You bringing your RS ( noisy day can run in ) or RSR ??
Still messing around with the narrow wing on the rs,so either the 2.8rsr or 997rsr or bothYou bringing your RS ( noisy day can run in ) or RSR ??
Edited by hunter 66 on Wednesday 18th July 16:31
O dear may be we need to work out how much we are going to lose or gain in value while enjoying the cars on track.wgaf!
Edited by Yellow491 on Wednesday 18th July 21:45
MDL111 said:
A forgone gain is easier on the wallet than an actual cash loss though, esp if on finance and not a long term keeper ....
It depends on how you account for things I guess. Personally, I'm much more likely to think of things as what their worth at point X in time in case I have to sell up rather than what I paid for it. That's up to each individual though.isaldiri said:
MDL111 said:
A forgone gain is easier on the wallet than an actual cash loss though, esp if on finance and not a long term keeper ....
It depends on how you account for things I guess. Personally, I'm much more likely to think of things as what their worth at point X in time in case I have to sell up rather than what I paid for it. That's up to each individual though.isaldiri said:
It depends on how you account for things I guess. Personally, I'm much more likely to think of things as what their worth at point X in time in case I have to sell up rather than what I paid for it. That's up to each individual though.
A fluctuating paper profit/loss on any asset only exists on a worthless piece of paper and in some individual's head..As an example, the recent phenomenal stratospheric rise in the paper value of Bitcoins fooled some people that they were better off than they actually were.Only the shrew ones who converted this fictional paper gain into a tangible cash profit actually made a real profit..
This is why the Inland Revenue ignores any 'on paper' profit, however large but when you convert that paper gain into a cash profit, the IR will tax you as its deemed to be an actual tangible profit..
This problem of lulling people into thinking that their higher paper worth ie rising house prices, have only encouraged irresponsible binge borrowing, and the main cause of the UK's current stagnant economic growth..
isaldiri said:
Porsche911R said:
.... but what miles do on these cars is change values of them quite a lot.
As always buy new at list , use it as much as you like.
Buying at list or otherwise doesn't change the fact putting miles on the car is going to affect the current financial value of it by a considerable amount. For something that as you say which indeed is 'not hard to grasp', your last line seems to suggest it might be harder than you think.As always buy new at list , use it as much as you like.
MDL111 said:
I don’t disagree with the approach but do think the above makes sense for a lot of people. I don’t really care what my cars are worth once I bought them (even if on finance) as I only buy to keep, so if it goes up or down is not really material for me (mine only go down, thanks to using them a lot anyway)
To me it's just being realistic about what things are worth and the impact of using them. Paper profit or otherwise, 'mark to market' in financial speak is to my mind more consistent with reality anyway. It's the last car I'd sell for sure but I don't kid myself I'm not in some ways setting fire to money every time I drive my 4.0 (and try not to slit my wrists having bought it at 300 miles and it's getting 'leggy' soon...... ). It's a nice problem to have obviously but in many ways I think appreciating car values are the biggest killer of actually being able to enjoy driving them. Things were a bit simpler in early 2013! Edited by isaldiri on Thursday 19th July 00:01
Taffy66 said:
MDL111 said:
A forgone gain is easier on the wallet than an actual cash loss though, esp if on finance and not a long term keeper ....
Exactly this..! An income foregone is not equivalent to an actual realised cash lost on resale..I'm in full agreement with Mr D on this and find it very 'simple to grasp'.!It reminds me of a poster (can't remember who) who responded to my post a while back, where i stated i was happy to return my well used GT Porsche at list to my OPC, in exchange for the latest one..This unnamed poster seemed it think i was flipping it !
Flipping is taking an allocation on the latest GT Porsche, with no intention of even driving it whatsoever, and immediately selling it on for a huge cash profit..
It sometimes surprises me how some people manage to make money in the first place, to allow them to buy nice cars..A lot of them i expect have inherited wealth made on the back of having smart hard working parents..
JulierPass said:
True but as we also established in the same thread, the likes of you wouldn’t be in the market for these cars if the true economics of a few years back were in place. So when the “normal” market returns you’ll stop buying which will allow the true enthusiast, who can afford it to get a car.
Are you suggesting i'm not a true enthusiast..? If so you really don't know me or my car buying history..I've owned countless Porsches over the last 20 years and lost money on all of them when selling apart from one exception, which i returned to my OPC at list with 4k miles on it..Or are you suggesting that to qualify as a 'true enthusiast', you need to be wealthy enough to take a £50k hit on every GT Porsche you buy..?
Being wealthy enough to consistently blow £50K on a regular basis IMO is not mutually exclusive with being a 'true enthusiast'..I'm a self made man who got to where i am today by sheer hard graft, with the understanding the difference between 'wasting' money and spending money..!
Only lazy spoilt snobs who got money the easy way, continually waste it IME, as they never had to work for it in the first place..
I'm pretty sure nobody on these forums fall in this category, in case i've inadvertently struck a raw nerve..
Taffy66 said:
Are you suggesting i'm not a true enthusiast..? If so you really don't know me or my car buying history..I've owned countless Porsches over the last 20 years and lost money on all of them when selling apart from one exception, which i returned to my OPC at list with 4k miles on it..
Or are you suggesting that to qualify as a 'true enthusiast', you need to be wealthy enough to take a £50k hit on every GT Porsche you buy..?
a 'true enthusiast' (self proclaimed or otherwise) just possibly might not be ready to drop Porsche at a drop of a hat for another marque the moment they start dropping in value don't you think?Or are you suggesting that to qualify as a 'true enthusiast', you need to be wealthy enough to take a £50k hit on every GT Porsche you buy..?
In your own words from an earlier thread.
Taffy66 said:
Only true car enthusiasts(myself included), who want GT cars to drive them should have the special GT cars in the first place IMO.
Porsche still offer relatively cheap high end motoring compared to its peers which is one of the main reasons i stick with the brand..If Porsches started to depreciate like other cars i would change tactics.I would either only buy used or i might try other brands instead..
It won't take much for me to switch to McLaren and Lotus, but until the market bombs i'll stick with Porsche.
Porsche still offer relatively cheap high end motoring compared to its peers which is one of the main reasons i stick with the brand..If Porsches started to depreciate like other cars i would change tactics.I would either only buy used or i might try other brands instead..
It won't take much for me to switch to McLaren and Lotus, but until the market bombs i'll stick with Porsche.
MDL111 said:
I don’t really care what my cars are worth once I bought them (even if on finance) as I only buy to keep, so if it goes up or down is not really material for me (mine only go down, thanks to using them a lot anyway)
I can understand this POV, but equally the quote below serves as a warning, if a car is on finance. You don't always get to pick and chose the market at the point you might be forced to sell. Never is a long time.isaldiri said:
To me it's just being realistic about what things are worth and the impact of using them. Paper profit or otherwise, 'mark to market' in financial speak is to my mind more consistent with reality anyway. It's the last car I'd sell for sure but...
isaldiri said:
However blowing £50K on every expensive sports car is tantamount to wasting my hard earned money and totally irresponsible IMO.
It all comes down to how each individual made his/her money in the first place..Every financially successful self-made person i know hates 'wasting' money as they feel the pain in terms of the effort that went to make it..
All of the above doesn't apply to luckier individuals who amassed their wealth through an easier route ie Lottery wins. inheritance etc.These people don't mind wasting money for obvious reasons..
All of us are in different situations and 'true enthusiasts' come from all walks of life..To suggest otherwise is just snobbery..!
Taffy66 said:
A true enthusiast admires and enjoys sports cars from numerous makers, not just Porsche..I never buy cars for 'keepers' as i like to try different cars as i get older.I have precisely zero interest in amassing a large car collection which land up collecting dust as garage queens..I don't mind losing a few grand on every car i own, as i use all of them as its maker intended.
However blowing £50K on every expensive sports car is tantamount to wasting my hard earned money and totally irresponsible IMO.
It all comes down to how each individual made his/her money in the first place..Every financially successful self-made person i know hates 'wasting' money as they feel the pain in terms of the effort that went to make it..
All of the above doesn't apply to luckier individuals who amassed their wealth through an easier route ie Lottery wins. inheritance etc.These people don't mind wasting money for obvious reasons..
All of us are in different situations and 'true enthusiasts' come from all walks of life..To suggest otherwise is just snobbery..!
I think the difference between a true enthusiast and you you is that an enthusiast buys the car they love. You have previously stated that if the GT3 depreciated like a normal car then you wouldn’t have bought one. In a way you’re still an enthusiast, maybe just when it suits you.However blowing £50K on every expensive sports car is tantamount to wasting my hard earned money and totally irresponsible IMO.
It all comes down to how each individual made his/her money in the first place..Every financially successful self-made person i know hates 'wasting' money as they feel the pain in terms of the effort that went to make it..
All of the above doesn't apply to luckier individuals who amassed their wealth through an easier route ie Lottery wins. inheritance etc.These people don't mind wasting money for obvious reasons..
All of us are in different situations and 'true enthusiasts' come from all walks of life..To suggest otherwise is just snobbery..!
Digga said:
MDL111 said:
I don’t really care what my cars are worth once I bought them (even if on finance) as I only buy to keep, so if it goes up or down is not really material for me (mine only go down, thanks to using them a lot anyway)
I can understand this POV, but equally the quote below serves as a warning, if a car is on finance. You don't always get to pick and chose the market at the point you might be forced to sell. Never is a long time.isaldiri said:
To me it's just being realistic about what things are worth and the impact of using them. Paper profit or otherwise, 'mark to market' in financial speak is to my mind more consistent with reality anyway. It's the last car I'd sell for sure but...
Taffy66 said:
isaldiri said:
However blowing £50K on every expensive sports car is tantamount to wasting my hard earned money and totally irresponsible IMO.
It all comes down to how each individual made his/her money in the first place..Every financially successful self-made person i know hates 'wasting' money as they feel the pain in terms of the effort that went to make it..
All of the above doesn't apply to luckier individuals who amassed their wealth through an easier route ie Lottery wins. inheritance etc.These people don't mind wasting money for obvious reasons..
All of us are in different situations and 'true enthusiasts' come from all walks of life..To suggest otherwise is just snobbery..!
Jack drinker said:
I think the difference between a true enthusiast and you you is that an enthusiast buys the car they love. You have previously stated that if the GT3 depreciated like a normal car then you wouldn’t have bought one. In a way you’re still an enthusiast, maybe just when it suits you.
In which case i'd just buy an used one, as i've done in the not so distant past..If GT Porsches depreciated it would suit me just fine as i don't particularly enjoy playing these 'To get a GT Porsche allocation' games..I only buy new GT Porsches now as its currently cheaper, otherwise i'd still buy a GT Porsche, only an used one..Its this approach to managing money which got me to where i am today, otherwise i'd be driving around in a clapped out rust-bucket albeit still a 'true enthusiast' just a poor one.!
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