991.1 GT3-RS: GOOD TIME TO BUY...??
Discussion
hunter 66 said:
Agree the true market for RS models has always been and continues to be smaller than the supply of cars . The GT3 is what most want ...
That's an interesting point..To the vast majority of 991 buyers the GTS makes more sense as you can have it with 2wd/4wd,man/PDK.coupe/cabrio/Targa or a glass roof if you prefer.Quite astonishing how many gen2 GT3s are for sale with even of the 11 manuals on the Porsche website nine have less than 1000 miles, with one on just 140m.It makes me wonder why they wanted a manual GT3 in the first place although i suspect i know the answer..!
Taffy66 said:
hunter 66 said:
Agree the true market for RS models has always been and continues to be smaller than the supply of cars . The GT3 is what most want ...
That's an interesting point..To the vast majority of 991 buyers the GTS makes more sense as you can have it with 2wd/4wd,man/PDK.coupe/cabrio/Targa or a glass roof if you prefer.Quite astonishing how many gen2 GT3s are for sale with even of the 11 manuals on the Porsche website nine have less than 1000 miles, with one on just 140m.It makes me wonder why they wanted a manual GT3 in the first place although i suspect i know the answer..!
GT4RS said:
Taffy66 said:
hunter 66 said:
Agree the true market for RS models has always been and continues to be smaller than the supply of cars . The GT3 is what most want ...
That's an interesting point..To the vast majority of 991 buyers the GTS makes more sense as you can have it with 2wd/4wd,man/PDK.coupe/cabrio/Targa or a glass roof if you prefer.Quite astonishing how many gen2 GT3s are for sale with even of the 11 manuals on the Porsche website nine have less than 1000 miles, with one on just 140m.It makes me wonder why they wanted a manual GT3 in the first place although i suspect i know the answer..!
Geoff39GL said:
I want a manual GT3 but will have to wait for them to come down a bit more
Let’s hope you get your wish...be good for the cars to find proper homes. Think they will find proper homes actually as I honestly th8nk the days of people buying these cars at £20k plus over list as an investment are gone for a fair while. I remember an Ultraviolet RS sold for £270k (on finance!) at my local OPC in June 2016, top spec car but even still thought that was crazy money at the time...given where some of those Ultraviolet cars posted above are advertised at present it seems that was a good way to rinse £120k in 26 months. At the new level of say £160k I’d still be hard pressed to buy one of these when a 2yo McLaren 570s can be had for 130k (issues with McLaren servicing /issue resolution wait times etc notwithstanding ).
RSbandit said:
I remember an Ultraviolet RS sold for £270k (on finance!) at my local OPC in June 2016, top spec car but even still thought that was crazy money at the time...given where some of those Ultraviolet cars posted above are advertised at present it seems that was a good way to rinse £120k in 26 months. At the new level of say £160k I’d still be hard pressed to buy one of these when a 2yo McLaren 570s can be had for 130k (issues with McLaren servicing /issue resolution wait times etc notwithstanding ).
With UV being my fav 991.1GT3 RS colour by a country mile and unique to boot, i'd jump at one if a great spec goes to £150K..The current gen 1 prices makes the gen 2 prices at £250K look very silly indeed.The people who are paying these ridiculous 'overs' are just feeding the greedy flippers and spoiling it for the rest of us non-flippers.RSbandit said:
I remember an Ultraviolet RS sold for £270k (on finance!) at my local OPC in June 2016, top spec car but even still thought that was crazy money at the time...given where some of those Ultraviolet cars posted above are advertised at present it seems that was a good way to rinse £120k in 26 months. At the new level of say £160k I’d still be hard pressed to buy one of these when a 2yo McLaren 570s can be had for 130k (issues with McLaren servicing /issue resolution wait times etc notwithstanding ).
I personally think you are correct, the days of crazy overs seem to be coming to an end on these types of cars. I also think we will see a lot of GT3 cars getting handed back due to finance company’s, due to owners having to higher final ballon payments.
This also means dealers have pretty much stopped buying these cars due to the crazy numbers for sale and the high risks involved.
The question you would ask yourself is even if you can by a a very low mileage / nice spec 991.1 gt3rs for 145k would they then chance it trying to sell it for say 165k less prep / warranty’s / Vat and not forgetting they still need to clear operating profits in already a poor UK car market. That’s quite a chunk of cash to tie up considering they could buy 3 used low mileage Macans for the same money and make higher levels of profit over the 3 and sell to a far wider audience. We all also already know most of these types of cars are on SOR at dealers already as dealers won’t take the risk.
You only have to take a look on piston heads and there are around 160 991 gt3 cars advertised at present and this is before second batch of .2 cars turn up early next year. This tells me the UK doesn’t have the appetite for the cars already in circulation at the current pricing. We all know Porsche has upped its production of gt cars by a considerable amount since the likes of a 997 gt3 and will keep on doing so.
I wouldn’t shock me if these types of cars carry on drifting downwards and return to normal depreciation rates like a Mclaren 570s.
The next question you want to ask yourself is a very low mileage 991.2 gt3 rs priced at 265k really worth 120k more than a very low mileage 991.1 gt3 rs, is the .2 that much better. Or are these people going to be taking a massive financial hit like the .1 owners who bought at the same level a few years back.
Food for thought!
GT4RS said:
I personally think you are correct, the days of crazy overs seem to be coming to an end on these types of cars.
How can you say that when a GT3 RS is £80k overs and the GT2 RS is £400k ? and GT4's are still overs even though a new one is due.Let’s see what happens on the new GT4 regarding overs, also macca are the same, pointless talking about a 570s, ! Try and buy a 600lt ! Or a ferrari Pista. I don’t see a change any time soon, unless Porsche make the GT4 a normal production run car which would stop it overnight.
I would love to try a 600lt but you have to have owned 2 other new normal cars to qualify.
I don’t think there is any question that 991.2 GT3 RS price’s will fall another £k80 - £k 100 to about £k 160 back them max over the medium term - this assumes economic conditions / interest rates dont change, so the truth is the real risk is greater than this.
Anyone buying now is either really stupid or rich enough not to care.
Anyone buying now is either really stupid or rich enough not to care.
Porsche911R said:
GT4RS said:
I personally think you are correct, the days of crazy overs seem to be coming to an end on these types of cars.
How can you say that when a GT3 RS is £80k overs and the GT2 RS is £400k ? and GT4's are still overs even though a new one is due.Let’s see what happens on the new GT4 regarding overs, also macca are the same, pointless talking about a 570s, ! Try and buy a 600lt ! Or a ferrari Pista. I don’t see a change any time soon, unless Porsche make the GT4 a normal production run car which would stop it overnight.
I would love to try a 600lt but you have to have owned 2 other new normal cars to qualify.
It’s not just Porsche gt related it’s others makes and models as well. I’m trying to sell my cerbera as it will never ever be used as I don’t get the time, I think I priced it competitively and the two who viewed it have both said it’s a lovely car but they are to nervous to buy it as they think prices are all over the place at the moment.
If the new gt4 isn’t a limited production run car it will have an big effect as the porsche gt speculators would need will leave the market as fast as they can as this will have a bigger impact on already struggling / falling prices.
RSVP911 said:
I don’t think there is any question that 991.2 GT3 RS price’s will fall another £k80 - £k 100 to about £k 160 back them max over the medium term - this assumes economic conditions / interest rates dont change, so the truth is the real risk is greater than this.
Anyone buying now is either really stupid or rich enough not to care.
Most who buy these gt cars use some form of finance, very few pay cash and can afford to take a 100k bath on a car they can’t even use as putting mileage on these gt cars hammers there value even further. Anyone buying now is either really stupid or rich enough not to care.
I fit one are not in a position to take a 100k bath!
RSVP911 said:
I don’t think there is any question that 991.2 GT3 RS price’s will fall another £k80 - £k 100 to about £k 160
No chance we will see a 991.2 GT3 RS at £160k any time soon. Just think what every thing below that model would have to be price wise, if that car dropped £100k.This forum is a bit skewed, I meet loads of very well off people who were buying cars when they lost 40% or macca sell 5000 PA all of which drop 30% quite fast bar LT models.
Let’s hope the new GT4 is unlimited production.
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No chance we will see a 991.2 GT3 RS at £160k any time soon. Just think what every thing below that model would have to be price wise, if that car dropped £100k.
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How on earth can you say that? You are already aware 991.gt3 rs cars were priced at £270 retail during the hype they are £160k retail and these are good spec cars with 2000 miles on the clock!
Come on 911r please take your head out of the sand.
GT4RS said:
We already know gt2rs cars are being offered around for 375k as they aren’t meeting asking prices and the .2 gt3rs cars aren’t selling that well at overs already hence them moving down from around 280k to around 260k and this is before we get the second batch of .2 gt3 cars. IMO the only car which looks good value at the moment are the lower end gt4 retail cars at around low 70k, it won’t be long before these start getting priced in 60s retail, once that happens we will then start to see more private adds at lower prices again.
But that’s now it happens for the 1st few then it takes a few price drops to find a level.At these lower levels the overs are still massive.
The 1st GT4 were over £100k it soon drooped, just like the 3RS and 2RS, the 1st car are daft high then the slight price drop.
The nicer GT4 are still £85k , the 911v car sold in 2 days.
Look at 997 prices and 987 prices and even 981 GTS prices, very very strong.
GT4 for sale are now going up daily due to them being 3 years old and the new model due, be an interesting market for sure, at £65k for a very high spec car that’s prime x51 mod time.
But atm the best cars are still £85k..
Porsche911R said:
No chance we will see a 991.2 GT3 RS at £160k any time soon. Just think what every thing below that model would have to be price wise, if that car dropped £100k.
This forum is a bit skewed, I meet loads of very well off people who were buying cars when they lost 40% or macca sell 5000 PA all of which drop 30% quite fast bar LT models.
Let’s hope the new GT4 is unlimited production.
And if the new 4.0 gt4 with the new revised gt3 engine is unlimited production, which is a high possibility your new gt3 will loose a fair chunk of cash overnight as the next gt3 will also be unlimited production car. At that point demand will settle down even further from it is now and only car enthusiasts will opt to buy a new Porsche gt car in the future. This forum is a bit skewed, I meet loads of very well off people who were buying cars when they lost 40% or macca sell 5000 PA all of which drop 30% quite fast bar LT models.
Let’s hope the new GT4 is unlimited production.
Without sounding rude as I don’t want anyone to loose a large sum of money, I do hope these cars start to become unlimited production models as they will be ordered by car nuts not investors.
Porsche911R said:
GT4RS said:
We already know gt2rs cars are being offered around for 375k as they aren’t meeting asking prices and the .2 gt3rs cars aren’t selling that well at overs already hence them moving down from around 280k to around 260k and this is before we get the second batch of .2 gt3 cars. IMO the only car which looks good value at the moment are the lower end gt4 retail cars at around low 70k, it won’t be long before these start getting priced in 60s retail, once that happens we will then start to see more private adds at lower prices again.
But that’s now it happens for the 1st few then it takes a few price drops to find a level.At these lower levels the overs are still massive.
The 1st GT4 were over £100k it soon drooped, just like the 3RS and 2RS, the 1st car are daft high then the slight price drop.
The nicer GT4 are still £85k , the 911v car sold in 2 days.
Look at 997 prices and 987 prices and even 981 GTS prices, very very strong.
GT4 for sale are now going up daily due to them being 3 years old and the new model due, be an interesting market for sure, at £65k for a very high spec car that’s prime x51 mod time.
But atm the best cars are still £85k..
The market is flooded with Porsche gt cars with new ones coming for sale daily. Only the low mileage high spec cars at realistic price points are selling and let’s not forget the games certain dealers play, most are on SOR and a number of these get returned to their owners or moved onto different dealers.
If the market was as you said we wouldn’t be having two gt3rs cars end up in BCA of all places. These cars would of got offered via the OPC internal buying network before going to BCA and clearly people felt they are to higher risk.
For those that are lucky enough to buy at list, the 991.2 GT3RS will be safe for a good few years. There will probably be plenty at £190-200k by end of 2019 (already changing hands at OPC for £240k) and depending on factors like economy, I can't see them dropping below list until well into 992RS production. But the market is definitely changing, cars are plentiful, buyers are fewer, production is ongoing. I think in the next couple of years we will see start to see a trend reversal and (USED) cars like the GT3, GT4, Spyder etc will be obtainable for below 'list' price. Brand new shampoo models will still command a premium, but this will be much, much lower than the 30%+ figures we are seeing today, and have been used to for the last 5 years. You need to look back past this abnormal period and remember what we have seen recently, isn't normal. The key going forward will be to buy at list, use and enjoy, and be thankful for cheap motoring. The above is not just my view, but also others.
GT4RS said:
Porsche911R said:
No chance we will see a 991.2 GT3 RS at £160k any time soon. Just think what every thing below that model would have to be price wise, if that car dropped £100k.
This forum is a bit skewed, I meet loads of very well off people who were buying cars when they lost 40% or macca sell 5000 PA all of which drop 30% quite fast bar LT models.
Let’s hope the new GT4 is unlimited production.
And if the new 4.0 gt4 with the new revised gt3 engine is unlimited production, which is a high possibility your new gt3 will loose a fair chunk of cash overnight as the next gt3 will also be unlimited production car. At that point demand will settle down even further from it is now and only car enthusiasts will opt to buy a new Porsche gt car in the future. This forum is a bit skewed, I meet loads of very well off people who were buying cars when they lost 40% or macca sell 5000 PA all of which drop 30% quite fast bar LT models.
Let’s hope the new GT4 is unlimited production.
Without sounding rude as I don’t want anyone to loose a large sum of money, I do hope these cars start to become unlimited production models as they will be ordered by car nuts not investors.
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