991.1 GT3-RS: GOOD TIME TO BUY...??

[Porsche911R]

Dr S said:

The 1.2 GT3 suspension is simply brilliant. Body control also over undulations is impressive and the car being fully locked down.

Poeple who find it too soft are either tracking their cars on smooth circuites like Paul Ricard or are blinded by faux sportiness of Audis and the like. On Nordschleife - which is a good proxy for a country road - a more compliant set-up makes you faster. Just look at the setups of the fastest race cars there

I agree

[Cheib]

Suspension has to be just about the most subjective element of these cars. I remember talking to one of the PEC instructors about the 991,1 RS vs the 997.2 RS....he pretty much said he’d never take the keys for the 997 if driving on road...just found it too hardcore in comparison mainly because of the suspension.

We’ve all got our preferences and there’s no right answer!

Given some of the roads I drive my GT3 on I don’t find the suspension too soft...and never find myself wanting to stiffen up the dampers.

[Porsche911R]

Cheib said:

Suspension has to be just about the most subjective element of these cars. I remember talking to one of the PEC instructors about the 991,1 RS vs the 997.2 RS....he pretty much said he’d never take the keys for the 997 if driving on road...just found it too hardcore in comparison mainly because of the suspension.

We’ve all got our preferences and there’s no right answer!

Given some of the roads I drive my GT3 on I don’t find the suspension too soft...and never find myself wanting to stiffen up the dampers.

Preference is a good choice of words I guess, but you cannot drive over a point in a older GT car as it will put you in a ditch at >120mph on todays B roads lol.

that does mean the cars moves about a lot more at 60 mph and people might see that as fun at lower speeds, but UK B roads the newer GT3 you bottle out before the cars wants to throw you off the road so in my 996 GT3 I would let off due to staying alive (frustrating), my new car I let off because it's get scary but in a exciting way but still under control.

I do drive very fast on the roads right or wrong, if I did not ever go above 60mph I would not buy sports cars, but how fast is too fast , 70, 80 , 90 ?

So I guess a preference is sort of right depending what you want from it, but that does not make the new GT3 too soft ! it makes it fit for todays roads. press PASM and it's not a nice ride at all mind you.

GT4 was a funny car over my 996 GT3, I did not like either due to this "preference" the GT3 gets out of shape with a bucking steering wheel and dampers which even when new cannot keep up etc etc, the GT4 chassis was so good the car did not have enough power to make it fun, both frustrating.

The new GT3 gets it about right, it rides the bumps UK roads throw at you, but gives you the feel and excitement the GT4 lacked.

I don't want to have to let off the throttle because the dampers cannot cope ! And that's always been a GT3 issue imo. I am talking daft speeds though not 60/70/80 etc

I am talking 130 mph down the fosse way a 996/997 and any RS owner would not stay with a standard 991.2 GT3 down to damping alone.

On track PASM comes into it's own and the standard GT3 with a sorted geo PASM on is also a track monster. You really get 2 cars in one.
it really is a very special car in manual and imo never to be repeated, I do think with new regs, the 991.2 Manual GT3 is the best GT car they will ever make for the road as a drivers car. While new cars might get faster, I feel regs and tech will make them less exciting.

IF you can live with a very heavy clutch, long gearing and less low down grunt a 997 GT3 might be more involving to a point, but the 3 things I just pointed out outweigh the positives sadly for ME !!!

I wish I was rich enough to make a 997.2 GT3 with short final drive and some plush after market 3 ways, but it's too risky a move for me to make and you are still left with that daft clutch weight my left knee cannot cope with :-(

I am waiting for a 997.2 GTS as a daily to drop in price a bit, so if you are selling up give me a shout :-)

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 16th November 11:53

[JulierPass]

[quote=
Preference is a good choice of words I guess, but you cannot drive over a point in a older GT car as it will put you in a ditch at >120mph on todays B roads lol.

that does mean the cars moves about a lot more at 60 mph and people might see that as fun at lower speeds, but UK B roads the newer GT3 you bottle out before the cars wants to throw you off the road so in my 996 GT3 I would let off due to staying alive (frustrating), my new car I let off because it's get scary but in a exciting way but still under control.

I do drive very fast on the roads right or wrong, if I did not ever go above 60mph I would not buy sports cars, but how fast is too fast , 70, 80 , 90 ?

So I guess a preference is sort of right depending what you want from it, but that does not make the new GT3 too soft ! it makes it fit for todays roads. press PASM and it's not a nice ride at all mind you.

]
[/quote]

Not if you set them up properly. I have a 996 RS, and a 997 RS 4.0 as well and I regularly drive roads back to back with them and the 991.2. As I said earlier, an idiot can throw a 991.2 down the road. The sheer grip and electronic aids will keep you out of a bush. You need to have a much higher level of skill to do the same in the 996 / 7, but that's what makes them so wonderful. They take time to learn and they reward in buckets when you "get it".

[Porsche911R]

JulierPass said:

Not if you set them up properly. I have a 996 RS, and a 997 RS 4.0 as well and I regularly drive roads back to back with them and the 991.2. As I said earlier, an idiot can throw a 991.2 down the road. The sheer grip and electronic aids will keep you out of a bush. You need to have a much higher level of skill to do the same in the 996 / 7, but that's what makes them so wonderful. They take time to learn and they reward in buckets when you "get it".

I never found my 996 to be a harder car to drive, the feed back it gave makes you know 100% what’s going on, if anything having more power in the new car makes it a harder car to drive. What does happen after a point is the older car runs out of steam and sus compliance. Nothing will keep you out a Bush. 996 is quite a slow car really, no faster then my 987.2 Spyder. Either of your RS would not see where a new GT3 went on a bumpy B road, the chassis setup is night and day.

[DT398]

Porsche911R said:

I never found my 996 to be a harder car to drive, the feed back it gave makes you know 100% what’s going on, if anything having more power in the new car makes it a harder car to drive. What does happen after a point is the older car runs out of steam and sus compliance. Nothing will keep you out a Bush. 996 is quite a slow car really, no faster then my 987.2 Spyder. Either of your RS would not see where a new GT3 went on a bumpy B road, the chassis setup is night and day.

So a couple of posts above you were “letting off to stay alive” in your 996 GT3 and in this one it “runs out of steam”. Which is it?

Which UK roads are you driving where any gt3 “runs out of steam”. If you said run out of road or run out of talent, I could understand that.

[Cheib]

Porsche911R said:

I am waiting for a 997.2 GTS as a daily to drop in price a bit, so if you are selling up give me a shout :-)

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 16th November 11:53

I just made a point of driving mine for three weeks and left the GT3 in the garage. Not selling anytime soon as really fell for it again.

They’ve come off at least £10k though I reckon. I think you’ll be able to get a manual for £60k to £65k now/very soon.

[JulierPass]

Porsche911R said:

JulierPass said:

Not if you set them up properly. I have a 996 RS, and a 997 RS 4.0 as well and I regularly drive roads back to back with them and the 991.2. As I said earlier, an idiot can throw a 991.2 down the road. The sheer grip and electronic aids will keep you out of a bush. You need to have a much higher level of skill to do the same in the 996 / 7, but that's what makes them so wonderful. They take time to learn and they reward in buckets when you "get it".

I never found my 996 to be a harder car to drive, the feed back it gave makes you know 100% what’s going on, if anything having more power in the new car makes it a harder car to drive. What does happen after a point is the older car runs out of steam and sus compliance. Nothing will keep you out a Bush. 996 is quite a slow car really, no faster then my 987.2 Spyder. Either of your RS would not see where a new GT3 went on a bumpy B road, the chassis setup is night and day.

You obviously haven't driven a 996/7 car that has been set up properly. I agree you have to invest time and money to get the right set up on the older cars, but trust me when you do there is nothing between the 2 on UK B roads. And the feedback is on another level compared with the newer car. I have no axe to grind as I have both, and think they are all great cars, some are just simply better than others because of the questions they ask of you as a driver.

[Porsche911R]

DT398 said:

So a couple of posts above you were “letting off to stay alive” in your 996 GT3 and in this one it “runs out of steam”. Which is it?

Which UK roads are you driving where any gt3 “runs out of steam”. If you said run out of road or run out of talent, I could understand that.

Have you driven one, you have to let off on bumby roads, then you hit a nicer roads and the cars not very fast esp with the long gears for UK roads, my Spyders prob faster in gear.

Pretty simple to grasp if you have driven one.

Like most cars for sale and most owners , I do wonder if people drive them ?
I sold my Spyder with over 10k on it, I used my 996gt3 as a daily and I drive all my cars quite fast. 996gt3 makes a pretty st uk B road car imo hence why I sold it.

[DT398]

Porsche911R said:

Have you driven one, you have to let off on bumby roads, then you hit a nicer roads and the cars not very fast esp with the long gears for UK roads, my Spyders prob faster in gear.

Pretty simple to grasp if you have driven one.

Like most cars for sale and most owners , I do wonder if people drive them ?

I have driven on road and track and owned all of:

996.2 GT3
997.1 GT3
997.2 GT3 RS
997 GT3RS 4.0
991 GT3
991.1 GT3 RS
991.2 GT3 RS


You?

I’ll ask again, which U.K. roads are you driving on where any GT3 runs out of steam. Pretty much none of the above barely runs out of steam on the Kemmel straight, so I’m struggling on which U.K. roads. Maybe you can help?

[Porsche911R]

JulierPass said:

You obviously haven't driven a 996/7 car that has been set up properly. I agree you have to invest time and money to get the right set up on the older cars, but trust me when you do there is nothing between the 2 on UK B roads. And the feedback is on another level compared with the newer car. I have no axe to grind as I have both, and think they are all great cars, some are just simply better than others because of the questions they ask of you as a driver.

Very true , feedback is very high, some of it unnessery in fact I thought.
I spent a lot of time on my 996 it was set up pretty well and ran rebuilt shocks etc.
I still think the car once above 120odd cannot cope all that well with bumps and the long gearing you do run out of road before you hit the high revs :-(

Which model 991 do you have PDK or manual, as I went for a drive in mine yesterday and it’s pretty overwhelming and quite a hand full, I have seen a few posts about manuals being put in ditch’s or being spun, where the e-diff PDK cars are far easier to pilot.
Was it you who said any idiot can drive one ? I forget .

I saw quite a lot of rear action .... (no puns please)yesterday but even on the road after a while you can get heat into the cups, but esp off it's a mighty car to get the best from.

The cars very very sensitive to throttle and with no e-diff drives like an older car, which is what it is having older tech, ie a real diff and a clutch pedal.

It offers loads more response and feed back over a GT4 as an example which while again old school never really hit the spot for some reason.

Mine will even more feedback soon as in a few days it has had a load of the cup monoball race parts going onto it.

Only issue with the newer cars is you do tend to see big numbers on the speedo.
Hence why I love to bits my 987.2 cars, mine is monoballed all round, big brakes , a tad more bhp and of course mid engine, it’s a really nice drive with the right amount of feedback, and better gearing than a older GT car.

Hence why I am on the lookout for a 997.2 GTS or even a nice C2s and put £10k into mods.
That would make a much nicer road car than any GT car, give all the feed back you want and if you went GTS you get the high reving engine, hence why you don’t see any manuals for sale :-( people hold o to them.

The new cars in manual form is a masterpiece of a car and engine, but it maybe just a bit too fast.... although that does mean you can drive it on the throttle more than car with less torque.

GT cars always the default choice even if you want to only do a few track days, making or buying the perfect B road car is far harder ....

[Porsche911R]

DT398 said:

I have driven on road and track and owned all of:

996.2 GT3
997.1 GT3
997.2 GT3 RS
997 GT3RS 4.0
991 GT3
991.1 GT3 RS
991.2 GT3 RS


You?

I’ll ask again, which U.K. roads are you driving on where any GT3 runs out of steam. Pretty much none of the above barely runs out of steam on the Kemmel straight, so I’m struggling on which U.K. roads. Maybe you can help?

Not as many as they make poor road cars and I got board of tracking cars, if I tracked a car again I would just buy a £30k Elise, so never wanted another GT3 car even though I love what they stand for. Hence spent the last 5 years in Cayman R's a much more usable road car and you get more out of it until the GT4 arrived, but even then I bought back a Cayman R as the GT4 also never gave me what I wanted for a road car so that also went.

Owning and using these cars as daily’s I should of said, I know many people own these cars and they sit there doing nothing. Hence the 1k mile GT cars keep poping up for sale and it’s the very same owners on here who say how great they are, (not you but many others)

Sadly I have yet to drive a 997.2 4.0 or a 991.2 GT3 RS. Out of the others I drove them and did not want to own any of them. I love the 997 RS 4.0 , I think it’s best I never drive one, some times the dream is better than real life.

Shame out that lot you missed the what I think is now the best model.

I risked the GT4 and that did not deliver, and I risked the new car in manual and imo that is pretty amazing so would never go back to the older engine and long gears with an unusable clutch pedal. (For me to enjoy)

It's all personal but I do think people want a car to be seen in other than what drives better, you can see that in Spyder owner ship or the amount of PDK sales.

I bought my manual GT3 to flip to be honest, I have said this open before, but the car was too good to sell, shame you have not tried one.

I,ll not get into older GT = poor road car debate , I have done it to death and it upsets people :-( If other poeople love them on the road I am happy for them, for ME they are a no go :-(

[Taffy66]

Having owned countless cars over 35years it always surprises me how some cars are perfectly set up and others are are not.By this i mean the natural ability some great cars have to 'breathe' with an undulating,rough and bumpy road.This to me is what truly defines a great car versus a lesser car with uncompromisingly damping/springs only suited for smooth roads or tracks.
This is what Lotus and McLaren are very adept at engineering into their cars and why they don't use fast Ring times in their marketing. Ferraris are also great in this respect with a few exceptions.

[Digga]

Porsche911R said:

I risked the GT4 and that did not deliver, and I risked the new car in manual and imo that is pretty amazing so would never go back to the older engine and long gears with an unusable clutch pedal. (For me to enjoy)

Interesting sentence. I had heard, various ways, from various sources, that a GT4 was easier to drive than either a 996 or 7 GT3 (the latter bring similarly priced, hence my having considered the 4) certainly in terms of arriving at a track you didn't know and without too much experience, but ultimately less rewarding than the GT3s.

The latest GT3 does not really seem to divide opinion; everyone likes the 991.2 version. You can make a good argument for manual or PDK, but in the end, that's preference.

I think I'd agree that, like the 997 GT3 RS 4.0, it is probably best I don't drive a 991.2 GT3 either.

[isaldiri]

Digga said:

I had heard, various ways, from various sources, that a GT4 was easier to drive than either a 996 or 7 GT3 (the latter bring similarly priced, hence my having considered the 4) certainly in terms of arriving at a track you didn't know and without too much experience, but ultimately less rewarding than the GT3s..

That's a generational thing and not specific of the gt4. Imo that's true of all the 9X1 cars and indeed almost any other modern sports car produced in the last few years.

[DT398]

Porsche911R said:

Not as many as they make poor road cars and I got board of tracking cars, if I tracked a car again I would just buy a £30k Elise, so never wanted another GT3 car even though I love what they stand for. Hence spent the last 5 years in Cayman R's a much more usable road car and you get more out of it until the GT4 arrived, but even then I bought back a Cayman R as the GT4 also never gave me what I wanted for a road car so that also went.

Owning and using these cars as daily’s I should of said, I know many people own these cars and they sit there doing nothing. Hence the 1k mile GT cars keep poping up for sale and it’s the very same owners on here who say how great they are, (not you but many others)

Sadly I have yet to drive a 997.2 4.0 or a 991.2 GT3 RS. Out of the others I drove them and did not want to own any of them. I love the 997 RS 4.0 , I think it’s best I never drive one, some times the dream is better than real life.

Shame out that lot you missed the what I think is now the best model.

I risked the GT4 and that did not deliver, and I risked the new car in manual and imo that is pretty amazing so would never go back to the older engine and long gears with an unusable clutch pedal. (For me to enjoy)

It's all personal but I do think people want a car to be seen in other than what drives better, you can see that in Spyder owner ship or the amount of PDK sales.

I bought my manual GT3 to flip to be honest, I have said this open before, but the car was too good to sell, shame you have not tried one.

I,ll not get into older GT = poor road car debate , I have done it to death and it upsets people :-( If other poeople love them on the road I am happy for them, for ME they are a no go :-(

So you are not going to answer the question about these cars running out of steam on the road, presumably because you realise it was a daft thing to say.

No doubt the newer cars are more compliant on the road and better for daily driving but nobody is really going to argue with that.

I don’t think it’s a shame that I have missed out on the manual 991GT3, I’m simply not interested in them. Weird comment that people specced the PDK as the car to be seen in. How can anyone tell when you drive by?

[Juno]

Cheib said:

I think the 991.1 GT3 is possibly already pricing in the engine issues...I think it's quite reasonably priced compared to other 911's you can buy. 997.2 GT3 CS pretty much the same price as a 991.1 pretty much now. Although a lot less 997's made.

Really good spec 991.1 GT3’s are still clipping £120K so they don’t seem to be doing too badly!

[Porsche911R]

DT398 said:

So you are not going to answer the question about these cars running out of steam on the road, presumably because you realise it was a daft thing to say.

No doubt the newer cars are more compliant on the road and better for daily driving but nobody is really going to argue with that.

I don’t think it’s a shame that I have missed out on the manual 991GT3, I’m simply not interested in them. Weird comment that people specced the PDK as the car to be seen in. How can anyone tell when you drive by?

If you are not interested In a manual GT3 then not a lot I can say. does make me wonder why you bought the early ones !

[Porsche911R]

isaldiri said:

That's a generational thing and not specific of the gt4. Imo that's true of all the 9X1 cars and indeed almost any other modern sports car produced in the last few years.

GT4 easier to a point, but harder over a point like any mid engine car is.

I find the GT3 easier on the limit than a GT4. A GT3 is far more predictable car to drive with the multilink set up, when you get to a point in the GT4's basic rear layout you start to get camber changes and rear steer effect from soft bushes and that really upsets the GT4. You really have to drive the GT4 like a Lotus or a 4C and be pin point and not go above 100%, the GT3 you can make dance and drive at 102% and the cars not really an issue.


People who say a GT4 is easy to drive are not driving it fast enough but might be getting to 85% of what the car can do very quick and think that's all it can do. And yes a GT4 at 85% is prob easier to drive than a 996 GT3 at 85% and most people only ever get to 85% I guess.

[993rsr]

Porsche911R said:

isaldiri said:

That's a generational thing and not specific of the gt4. Imo that's true of all the 9X1 cars and indeed almost any other modern sports car produced in the last few years.

GT4 easier to a point, but harder over a point like any mid engine car is.

I find the GT3 easier on the limit than a GT4. A GT3 is far more predictable car to drive with the multilink set up, when you get to a point in the GT4's basic rear layout you start to get camber changes and rear steer effect from soft bushes and that really upsets the GT4. You really have to drive the GT4 like a Lotus or a 4C and be pin point and not go above 100%, the GT3 you can make dance and drive at 102% and the cars not really an issue.


People who say a GT4 is easy to drive are not driving it fast enough but might be getting to 85% of what the car can do very quick and think that's all it can do. And yes a GT4 at 85% is prob easier to drive than a 996 GT3 at 85% and most people only ever get to 85% I guess.

Do you actually read this concieted rubbish before you hit submit?