Quick blat in the new manual '3

[Yellow491]

Desert Dragon said:

Yellow491 said:

The new rsr is out with customers already and heavy testing and set ups etc,not 25 cars this year,

You're thinking of the race car. There is a road version due in your local OPC soon. 25 UK cars I believe so less than one per showroom. No doubt usual suspects will get them and they'll be flipped or sitting in garages gathering dust

I dont think so if its a rsr its a race car,(unless they do a poor imitation of a genuine lightweight racer like they have with the 991r,which is a nice car but no r)if they make a proper lwt clubsport version of a gt3 its a differant car of which i have been trying to get porsche to make for some time,there is a good market for a cs/cup type car ,but regs have moved on big time with cages in cars, the rsr relies on its cage to help with the mid engine config.
The mid engine set up is far from a production standard car,if they made just 25 they would be similar or even more money than a rsr i would have thought,if they made 500 it could be a different proposition may be!
When there is more info on the rsr cars out there i will post some photos to show how complex it is,especially the cage,let alone the 40,000 euros per corner of suspension/wheel carriers that are hand fabed.
I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[Yellow491]

Desert Dragon said:

browngt3 said:

I for one find it sad that a good thread has degenerated. It's always the same few isn't it? Don't mind a few slightly heated exchanges but let's not get personal about stuff. We're all Porsche enthusiasts so let's get on with celebrating and debating these fantastic cars...

Unfortunately its the same on every forum nowadays. I mentioned on 911UK I was ordering a new 911 for the other half and some horrible scroat acne infested keyboard warrior called me out on it lol! I think you just have to ignore the negativity and skim over it. Shame as reviews like Cmoose's are far more insightful than anything from EVO, TopGear, Auto Express, Autocar, Car Magazine etc produce. The alternative are the youthtubers bruv


Edited to say and they actually stalk you over the internet

Edited by Desert Dragon on Saturday 24th March 09:56

Totally agree,its just annoying when some one who has a lot of experience in these cars such as r,that if he disagrees with someting or picks up on something not correct it can be debated and not turn into personal insults.
To debate technical questions/issues there needs to be knowledge and experience on both sides,or one educates the other surely.
Enjoy your gt3,s great cars.

[Desert Dragon]

Yellow491 said:

Desert Dragon said:

Yellow491 said:

The new rsr is out with customers already and heavy testing and set ups etc,not 25 cars this year,

You're thinking of the race car. There is a road version due in your local OPC soon. 25 UK cars I believe so less than one per showroom. No doubt usual suspects will get them and they'll be flipped or sitting in garages gathering dust

I dont think so if its a rsr its a race car,(unless they do a poor imitation of a genuine lightweight racer like they have with the 991r,which is a nice car but no r)if they make a proper lwt clubsport version of a gt3 its a differant car of which i have been trying to get porsche to make for some time,there is a good market for a cs/cup type car ,but regs have moved on big time with cages in cars, the rsr relies on its cage to help with the mid engine config.
The mid engine set up is far from a production standard car,if they made just 25 they would be similar or even more money than a rsr i would have thought,if they made 500 it could be a different proposition may be!
When there is more info on the rsr cars out there i will post some photos to show how complex it is,especially the cage,let alone the 40,000 euros per corner of suspension/wheel carriers that are hand fabed.
I guess we will just have to wait and see.

No not 25 worldwide. Just 25 UK. The only reason I know about the showroom version of RSR is my friend is getting one. He's already been told. God knows how many they make worldwide or whether its crash tested for road use. May even be one of those rare cars that manufacturers sell as track only cars not for road use who knows? Certainly sound super special. Its funny speaking to my OPC and looking at the vacant look in their eyes when you're talking about these special models. Porsche AG don't tell them anything or they simply aren't interested in the products they are selling.

[TDT]

Yellow491 said:

Desert Dragon said:

browngt3 said:

I for one find it sad that a good thread has degenerated. It's always the same few isn't it? Don't mind a few slightly heated exchanges but let's not get personal about stuff. We're all Porsche enthusiasts so let's get on with celebrating and debating these fantastic cars...

Unfortunately its the same on every forum nowadays. I mentioned on 911UK I was ordering a new 911 for the other half and some horrible scroat acne infested keyboard warrior called me out on it lol! I think you just have to ignore the negativity and skim over it. Shame as reviews like Cmoose's are far more insightful than anything from EVO, TopGear, Auto Express, Autocar, Car Magazine etc produce. The alternative are the youthtubers bruv


Edited to say and they actually stalk you over the internet

Edited by Desert Dragon on Saturday 24th March 09:56

Totally agree,its just annoying when some one who has a lot of experience in these cars such as r,that if he disagrees with someting or picks up on something not correct it can be debated and not turn into personal insults.
To debate technical questions/issues there needs to be knowledge and experience on both sides,or one educates the other surely.
Enjoy your gt3,s great cars.

I did try to pour water on this before I went this way.... shame.

Let’s try to bring it back the topic though… 2.GT3 vs the pantheon of the other Porsche greats.

[Discombobulate]

I hate to stereotype but here is another thread punctuated by the rhythmic thud of Cayman drivers handbagging each other.
Freud would have a field day

[Digga]

Discombobulate said:

I hate to stereotype but here is another thread punctuated by the rhythmic thud of Cayman drivers handbagging each other.
Freud would have a field day

Is it me, or has it got a bit less rhythmic since they swapped to a 4 cylinder engine too?

[Cheib]

TDT said:

Let’s try to bring it back the topic though… 2.GT3 vs the pantheon of the other Porsche greats.

Wouldn't that be good !

I'd really like to hear people's opinions of the 991.2 GT3 vs 991.1 GT3 RS and 997.2 GT3 RS

I don't know why but the 991.1 GT3 RS has never really excited me....but I desperately want to own the 997.2 GT3 RS one day. Need to be a better driver first though I reckon.

[evodarren]

Cheib said:

Wouldn't that be good !

I'd really like to hear people's opinions of the 991.2 GT3 vs 991.1 GT3 RS and 997.2 GT3 RS

I don't know why but the 991.1 GT3 RS has never really excited me....but I desperately want to own the 997.2 GT3 RS one day. Need to be a better driver first though I reckon.

I had a similar feeling when I tried a 991.1 Gt3 compared to my 997.1 GT3 . The 997 was far more involving and needs more precise input for the driver. For my weekend blasts its very hard to beat. Everyday usage it maybe different. But I didn't buy my car to use everyday, so im very happy to keep mine.

[isaldiri]

Cheib said:

I'd really like to hear people's opinions of the 991.2 GT3 vs 991.1 GT3 RS and 997.2 GT3 RS

Don't you think people's opinions are generally far too biased towards whatever car they currently own and are always going to talk up that car? It's very hard to get an 'objective' review imo and there's a lot of confirmation bias going on with people finding what they want to look for in a car.

[Koln-RS]

isaldiri said:

Don't you think people's opinions are generally far too biased towards whatever car they currently own and are always going to talk up that car? It's very hard to get an 'objective' review imo and there's a lot of confirmation bias going on with people finding what they want to look for in a car.

I think it's virtually impossible to get a truly independent opinion that suits all recipients. And, agree, most owners can only judge their own cars from their own perspective - even if they believe they are being impartial.

[evodarren]

I personally like all cars. Many of them are stunning to look at but not so good to drive. Each car serves a different need. for me im not interested that a car can lap .2 seconds faster.

[Digga]

Koln-RS said:

isaldiri said:

Don't you think people's opinions are generally far too biased towards whatever car they currently own and are always going to talk up that car? It's very hard to get an 'objective' review imo and there's a lot of confirmation bias going on with people finding what they want to look for in a car.

I think it's virtually impossible to get a truly independent opinion that suits all recipients. And, agree, most owners can only judge their own cars from their own perspective - even if they believe they are being impartial.

Yes, by the flip side of that is, if you own it, you really are putting your money where your mouth is.

Sure, in my case, I'd love a 997.2 GT3, and even more so a 997.1 or .2 RS, better yet the 4.0, and it is budget (avoidance of extreme leverage!) that keeps me in a 997.1 GT3.

But I have driven 991.1 GT3 and RS, so I can feel fairly confident in making comparisons.

[LaSource]

isaldiri said:

Don't you think people's opinions are generally far too biased towards whatever car they currently own and are always going to talk up that car? It's very hard to get an 'objective' review imo and there's a lot of confirmation bias going on with people finding what they want to look for in a car.

This is true even if unintentional.

A friend and I spent a morning driving each other's 991.2 GT3 (manual) and 997.2RS. Unfortunately the outcome was kind of predictable in that each owner preferred their own car. The only other variable which has an impact is availability/purchase price - ie someone who paid £135k list for their top spec 991.2GT3 values it differently to someone who can only get someone else's flip at say £175k+

In my humble opinion:
991.2GT3 (list price) vs 997.2RS (market price) where the 991.2GT3 £50k+ cheaper - on balance of overall package the 991.2GT3 probably wins
991.2GT3 (flip price) vs 997.2RS (market price) where they are both similar price - on balance the 7.2RS could wins on more purer experience, RS drama, and likelihood that your money is more likely to retain value, whereas the 991.2GT3 is going to get cheaper as more are available, people buying into .2RS, usual overs market dynamics.

Digga said:

Yes, by the flip side of that is, if you own it, you really are putting your money where your mouth is.

I really agree with this too.
So in my case as I am not target market for Porsche, the 7.2RS appealed more and is the one I bought.

[Digga]

The arbitrage between 'new' (if you're one of the lucky few), 'flip' and 'market' prices creates significant distortion.

Given the opportunity for 'new', I know I would pony-up a few more quid to grasp it. To me (and I guess a good few others) that would cast cars in a quite different light.

[isaldiri]

Digga said:

Yes, by the flip side of that is, if you own it, you really are putting your money where your mouth is..

But that also means owners or at least a good many of them are going to try to self justify/validate their purchase...

[Digga]

isaldiri said:

Digga said:

Yes, by the flip side of that is, if you own it, you really are putting your money where your mouth is..

But that also means owners or at least a good many of them are going to try to self justify/validate their purchase...

To an extent, but then if you own 996, 997 or a 991 GT3 or RS, you cannot fail but understand each car has their respective merits. The 'best' for one individual is by no means the 'best' for another.

[Digga]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Depreciation - yes that would alter the picture, but that issue notwithstanding, I think the big point for me would be running in. A quick look at the 991.2 GT3 thread shows this to be a major concern and topic of conversation. The only way to know if a car has been run in properly - and therefore whether it will perform to its best abilities - is to run it in yourself.

[v8ksn]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Excellent post, I agree with many of your points.

[Digga]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I can't really remember the press' take on the car TBH. At that time, I was very much into TVRs and I can clearly, vividly now remember the first time I saw a 964 RS in the metal; a mate and I were in the TVR paddock at Silverstone and one pulled in there, amongst the race transporters and racing cars etc. and we knew what it was and just listening to it, could also tell how special a machine it was. I seem to remember it cost about £80k back then?

[isaldiri]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'd agree with most of that, albeit the filtering required seems to sometimes produce a bit of an echo chamber of one finding what they want to find.