gt3 ...138 cars for sale !!!!
Discussion
Discombobulate said:
Your cars are worth more than your house? And 8 times your salary? And you earn just enough to up to reach the 40% cut off?
I regret to report that you are officially stupid with money
why I can sell them any time, added up they are worth more than I paid for them ?I regret to report that you are officially stupid with money
I could sell up and buy a bigger house, but why ? I don't get this lust to have bigger better houses, cars etc over the next man.
I would like more garage space for more cars though :-)
The true cost of running a fun hobby sportscar for me is in order of importance: Annual depreciation,interest and insurance..The capital purchase cost to me is not a cost, as you have the value of the asset rather than in cash..I do my best to minimise depreciation, as all private fun cars need to be funded out of post tax income which is 40-45% more cost than buying a depreciating asset for business purposes payed out of pre-tax income.
I'm currently tracking prices for 488s, Performates and Maccas to try and time it when the bulk of depreciation has already been borne by previous owners. As a self made man i know first hand how much hard graft it took to get to the position to buy these cars.
Others which inherited their wealth will not apply that money mentality to depreciation as they have little concept of the effort it took to get the money in the first place..Basically its easier to squander money made by other people's efforts.
I'm currently tracking prices for 488s, Performates and Maccas to try and time it when the bulk of depreciation has already been borne by previous owners. As a self made man i know first hand how much hard graft it took to get to the position to buy these cars.
Others which inherited their wealth will not apply that money mentality to depreciation as they have little concept of the effort it took to get the money in the first place..Basically its easier to squander money made by other people's efforts.
Agree on the pcp rip off. It has allowed many, not just the snowflake generation, to obtain a car they cannot really afford. It may get worse for them before it gets better too as we move towards higher interest rates and more subscriptive economy with many more concerned about the 'mumflies' I.e. rental costs rather than 'materialism.'
Meanwhile and back on topic I still maintain that the main reason why new Porsche GTs appreciate then hold their value better than any other car is firstly because they are underpriced and secondly because they are an outstanding product. The fact that they are limited in numbers ( still the case relatively despite numbers having increased of late) is less significant but could be seen by many as the icing on the cake in the whole Porsche marketing equation.
Meantime, concerning McLaren and their somewhat suicidal marketing philosophy (imo), we have the opposite result to Porsche where Mclarens are overpriced, oversupplied and 'overmodelled'. Factor in dubious reliability and sparse and questionable dealer backup and this explains why cars like the little used 570S Spyder are available relatively cheaply. I received these e mails from Mc Manchester last week. The 570 GT in particular looks cheap. But generally speaking cars that show heavy initial depreciation invariably tend to continue heavily depreciating.
It is interesting and unfortunate that this Mc dealer 570S Spyder has 2k fewer miles and is £13k cheaper than the private sale one posted a couple of pages back.
Meanwhile and back on topic I still maintain that the main reason why new Porsche GTs appreciate then hold their value better than any other car is firstly because they are underpriced and secondly because they are an outstanding product. The fact that they are limited in numbers ( still the case relatively despite numbers having increased of late) is less significant but could be seen by many as the icing on the cake in the whole Porsche marketing equation.
Meantime, concerning McLaren and their somewhat suicidal marketing philosophy (imo), we have the opposite result to Porsche where Mclarens are overpriced, oversupplied and 'overmodelled'. Factor in dubious reliability and sparse and questionable dealer backup and this explains why cars like the little used 570S Spyder are available relatively cheaply. I received these e mails from Mc Manchester last week. The 570 GT in particular looks cheap. But generally speaking cars that show heavy initial depreciation invariably tend to continue heavily depreciating.
It is interesting and unfortunate that this Mc dealer 570S Spyder has 2k fewer miles and is £13k cheaper than the private sale one posted a couple of pages back.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 20th November 10:37
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 20th November 10:44
Twinfan said:
My car is my only car and my first costing more than £15k, plus it's a keeper. You seem to think I've been in a never ending PCP cycle for years. I haven't.
I have no idea how you buy cars, you asked me how I do on my wage, and the key point was 2nd hand rarer cars bought outright.Not renting £35k cars at 19 years old but a £4k car I owned and so on and so one until I have the money to buy more expensive stuff.
nothing is a keeper, I am on 73 cars and looking for a 74th.
GT3cs said:
I guess the point is what you perceive you are spending . In my case I'm purely making purchase decisions on the cost to own i.e depreciation or in recent years some appreciation. Your not really spending a £180k as some value still remains in the product . All your committing is the potential loss , which isn't £180k , ( unless you insure 3rd party only ) .
For the record I've been a 996 /997 /991.1 and 991.2 GT3 owner , 2 x Spyders , 2 x Cayman R , 2 x GTS and a GT4 over the last 10 years ... and I only earn £50k PA . (And I purchase them outright - no Kids mind ! )
im guessing you lead a very grey lifestyle as well?For the record I've been a 996 /997 /991.1 and 991.2 GT3 owner , 2 x Spyders , 2 x Cayman R , 2 x GTS and a GT4 over the last 10 years ... and I only earn £50k PA . (And I purchase them outright - no Kids mind ! )
Porsche911R said:
why I can sell them any time, added up they are worth more than I paid for them ?
I could sell up and buy a bigger house, but why ? I don't get this lust to have bigger better houses, cars etc over the next man.
I would like more garage space for more cars though :-)
If you are happy with your house. If you think making 10 -20k or so on all your cars is a good return, and are content to divert so much of your income to motoring then good on you. But that is not being clever with money and I am glad I am not married to you I could sell up and buy a bigger house, but why ? I don't get this lust to have bigger better houses, cars etc over the next man.
I would like more garage space for more cars though :-)
Porsche911R said:
very true, my quote was £25k interest, I was black mailed into PCP to get the car , but paid it off after 4 months, it cost me £3k and I owed more than I borrowed after 4 months !!!
How does that work lol PCP will be the next PPI imo I hope I 'll get my £3k back when that happens :-)
Yes, PCP is the biggest con if you are buying cars for a short period. I was only recently advised that the interest is heavily loaded at the beginning of the payment cycle so if you are buying for a short period makes no sense at all. I've heard a few people comparing it to PPI scam recently!How does that work lol PCP will be the next PPI imo I hope I 'll get my £3k back when that happens :-)
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So if Porsche built 1200 991.2 GT3s as opposed to under half that number as is the case, you still maintain this would be limited supply? By your reasoning it would be and as a consequence the premiums would be unaffected. But this is clearly not the case.I repeat the 458 was NOT limited supply. Well into the production run it was possible for anyone even with zero Ferrari buying history to order even a couple of cars. Even more remarkably this was also the case with the Speciale.
Yes the production numbers have a bearing on residuals but other factors have a greater influence the principal one being in the case of the GT3 underpricing when new together with the sheer capabilities of the cars influencing prices.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
?It was in response to your assertion that 'any 458' was limited in supply despite there being over 1200 UK cars plus Speciales which any model could be ordered by anybody even with zero buying history during their production run.
I repeat the 458 was never limited in supply and yet despite this even 7 year old cars still command around list price.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Fair point, but on the other hand, I'm not allowed to buy a GT3, and I don't want to buy one of the boring 911's, of which there are plenty, so I'm not going to buy a Porsche at all, I'm going to buy something else. That can't be good for them either. The 911T is almost an answer, but not quite. Discombobulate said:
If you are happy with your house. If you think making 10 -20k or so on all your cars is a good return, and are content to divert so much of your income to motoring then good on you. But that is not being clever with money and I am glad I am not married to you
I have had 73 cars never did it to make any money, I like cars and I like driving them it's that simple, what sets me apart from the other 85% car owners is I don't buy on PCP !If interest rates were 8% I would sell them all and have a income from that.
there is a reason cars, watches and any assets are making money, it's low interest rates.
I cannot goto a Ferrari show room and buy a 488 on a PCP as an example.
av185 said:
Agree on the pcp rip off. It has allowed many, not just the snowflake generation, to obtain a car they cannot really afford. It may get worse for them before it gets better too as we move towards higher interest rates and more subscriptive economy with many more concerned about the 'mumflies' I.e. rental costs rather than 'materialism.'
Meanwhile and back on topic I still maintain that the main reason why new Porsche GTs appreciate then hold their value better than any other car is firstly because they are underpriced and secondly because they are an outstanding product. The fact that they are limited in numbers ( still the case relatively despite numbers having increased of late) is less significant but could be seen by many as the icing on the cake in the whole Porsche marketing equation.
Meantime, concerning McLaren and their somewhat suicidal marketing philosophy (imo), we have the opposite result to Porsche where Mclarens are overpriced, oversupplied and 'overmodelled'. Factor in dubious reliability and sparse and questionable dealer backup and this explains why cars like the little used 570S Spyder are available relatively cheaply. I received these e mails from Mc Manchester last week. The 570 GT in particular looks cheap. But generally speaking cars that show heavy initial depreciation invariably tend to continue heavily depreciating.
It is interesting and unfortunate that this Mc dealer 570S Spyder has 2k fewer miles and is £13k cheaper than the private sale one posted a couple of pages back.
Those offers are eye watering ! Meanwhile and back on topic I still maintain that the main reason why new Porsche GTs appreciate then hold their value better than any other car is firstly because they are underpriced and secondly because they are an outstanding product. The fact that they are limited in numbers ( still the case relatively despite numbers having increased of late) is less significant but could be seen by many as the icing on the cake in the whole Porsche marketing equation.
Meantime, concerning McLaren and their somewhat suicidal marketing philosophy (imo), we have the opposite result to Porsche where Mclarens are overpriced, oversupplied and 'overmodelled'. Factor in dubious reliability and sparse and questionable dealer backup and this explains why cars like the little used 570S Spyder are available relatively cheaply. I received these e mails from Mc Manchester last week. The 570 GT in particular looks cheap. But generally speaking cars that show heavy initial depreciation invariably tend to continue heavily depreciating.
It is interesting and unfortunate that this Mc dealer 570S Spyder has 2k fewer miles and is £13k cheaper than the private sale one posted a couple of pages back.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 20th November 10:37
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 20th November 10:44
Porsche911R said:
I have had 73 cars never did it to make any money, I like cars and I like driving them it's that simple, what sets me apart from the other 85% car owners is I don't buy on PCP !
If interest rates were 8% I would sell them all and have a income from that.
there is a reason cars, watches and any assets are making money, it's low interest rates.
I cannot goto a Ferrari show room and buy a 488 on a PCP as an example.
I think what sets you apart is that your claims (house, cars) when referenced against your income, simply don’t add up. The most logical assumption, based upon how you come across is that you are a motoring Walter Mitty- but I understand that some people on here have met you in one of the cars you claim to own, so I suppose we have to look at a so far hidden factor- which is either finance or income that you are for some reason concealin,, an inheritance etc.If interest rates were 8% I would sell them all and have a income from that.
there is a reason cars, watches and any assets are making money, it's low interest rates.
I cannot goto a Ferrari show room and buy a 488 on a PCP as an example.
Dammit said:
I think what sets you apart is that your claims (house, cars) when referenced against your income, simply don’t add up. The most logical assumption, based upon how you come across is that you are a motoring Walter Mitty- but I understand that some people on here have met you in one of the cars you claim to own, so I suppose we have to look at a so far hidden factor- which is either finance or income that you are for some reason concealin,, an inheritance etc.
By 50 most people have earnt a million quid, I guess it depends what you spent that million on. A few cars is a drop In the ocean really by 50.just life choices I guess I have worked from 16 and bought my 1st house at 17 for £38k, I was on £20k back then so houses were cheap I guess vs wages.
Today people seem hell bent on finance and PCP's, wanting a £1.5k phone, £85 quid on Sky it's that simple, I lead a simple lifestyle and buy nice cars as and when I have saved up enough.
Dammit said:
I don’t believe you- your stated income wouldn’t pay for the servicing on the cars you claim to own, let alone fuel, insurance, VED and so forth.
well none of your posts have been very nice the last 3 pages. Forums are not nice places, esp when I have been very open.now you say I cannot afford to put petrol in a car ! ffs
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