GT2 RS vs 720s: Drag race

[993AL]

Porsche911R said:

The Surveyor said:

Porsche911R said:

……..
today 600LT is the best car they make and so you can buy a £200k 570s now for £110k !
………….

Only the very silly paid £200k for a 570s, I certainly paid an awful lot less for mine. External carbon packs are the expensive (upto £40k!) options, not needed other than for vanity.

Porsche911R said:

…..
what we need is a 600lt vs GT3RS vs Performante group test
………….

Not quite a group test but Sutcliffe thinks a GT3 RS wouldn't be able to stay with the new (best McLaren yet...) 600LT on a track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghfGIq0ddlc

What ever you think of McLaren, they're moving the goalposts all the time, same with Lamborghini with the Performante and Porsche with their next GT models, the added competition can only be a positive. Porsche aren't going to sit back and let the 720 beat the GT2RS in a sprint, they'll be working to make the next one launch even faster... win win.

but the silly did pay and buying 2nd hand you tend to favour the higher spec cars, selling 2nd hand base model cars is a pitta unless far far cheaper.

Also for most it's not about speed, all these cars are way way fast enough, it's about how they feel to drive, and can the 600lt out place the GT3 for that yet ? no Macca yet has been fun to drive, you are just buying performance :-( agan can the 600LT bring the life back to driving over getting hung up on doing the ton in 5 seconds.

I has a 570S for a day it felt like the Golf of the super car world and now reading the 600lt reviews makes the 570S not a drivers choice car at all.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 27th September 10:08

You forgot the IMO there.

Subjective I know but i'd have to strongly disagree with your statement. I've had a lot of fun in my Porsches but the Macca is a step up IMO.

[TB993tt]

993AL said:

You forgot the IMO there.

Subjective I know but i'd have to strongly disagree with your statement. I've had a lot of fun in my Porsches but the Macca is a step up IMO.

+ 1

The guy's nuts

[The Surveyor]

TB993tt said:

993AL said:

You forgot the IMO there.

Subjective I know but i'd have to strongly disagree with your statement. I've had a lot of fun in my Porsches but the Macca is a step up IMO.

+ 1

The guy's nuts

It is subjective, and his opinion is as valid as any. I just can't be ars3d to argue with him over his usual 'the golf of the supercar world' comment.

As always, it's a good job we like different things otherwise we'd all be married to the same wife.

[Yellow491]

TB993tt said:

993AL said:

You forgot the IMO there.

Subjective I know but i'd have to strongly disagree with your statement. I've had a lot of fun in my Porsches but the Macca is a step up IMO.

+ 1
Plus another 1.
The guy's nuts

The gt3rs will not live with the 570 let alone the new lt version,what happened to buying a car for what it is instead of how much you might lose.
The best value proper sports car on the market is the 540,i have seen all the preproduction data on these cars,not the journo info,the 600lt is quite a little car.
As for the mclaren being uneventfull is nuts,i took my lt out again yesterday with a view of what to get next,and i will be staying with the lt,nothing coming close for turn in,response,comfort and flat cornering.Whats even better the 675lt and 600 are top value compared to the senna which i cancelled my allocation haveing seen the data,the senna aint much faster than the other two lt.
Porsche do not do any different with the latest being the best by .1 of a second some where,wait until you see the new to be p23.

[Porsche911R]

993AL said:

You forgot the IMO there.

Subjective I know but i'd have to strongly disagree with your statement. I've had a lot of fun in my Porsches but the Macca is a step up IMO.

A step up in what out of interest ?

it's not build
it's not service
it's not reliability
it's not in feel
it's not in resale
it's not in history
it not in desirability
it's not in many many other area's , the you tubers cannot get out fast enough from the brand, where once they were getting all the toys.
None have nothing nice to say now it seems.

Cannot even bring up F1 now as they are just not there at all with the cars :-(

Dealers are way over loaded with work, too many cars not enough dealers now for the growing production numbers and owners.
3 months wait to get anything done ! that's even if they will take your car in at all !


So a step up in straight line performance is all one can except to gain in one and at massive cost to the bank balance when you need to offload it due to new models !

They are Ferrari obsessed and that seems the ruin of them over making a drivers car, they just want to make faster cars than Ferrari do, I don't even think Porsche is on their radar to be honest after my VIP chat and tour with a Mr Farquhar at head office.

AlI I got all day was "Ferrari this " Ferrari that" etc etc

It's a very nice product which is very much outdated when the next models come out, a life style image I tend to think from the brand , (but alas Ferrari have them at that also) you never seen one at a track day, and they make these track cars which never do the lap times !

when I talked about "driver involvement" with Mr Farquhar it's not on his radar and he is in charge of the new 3 seater super car.

I said some of us still like a manual to which I got back, "well that's a bit slow for us"

So a step up you say ;-) a step towards automation is all I see and a 6 month wait for a service. but hey it's faster in a straight line than a Ferrari ! woo hoo


all imho of course :-p lets not forget that....

If you want to go fast for £120k then buy a 570S for sure, pretty much the fastest thing for the money and does look bling on the drive.

[Yellow491]

Porsche911R said:

A step up in what out of interest ?

it's not build
it's not service
it's not reliability
it's not in feel
it's not in resale
it's not in history
it not in desirability
it's not in many many other area's , the you tubers cannot get out fast enough from the brand, where once they were getting all the toys.
None have nothing nice to say now it seems.

Cannot even bring up F1 now as they are just not there at all with the cars :-(

Dealers are way over loaded with work, too many cars not enough dealers now for the growing production numbers and owners.
3 months wait to get anything done ! that's even if they will take your car in at all !


So a step up in straight line performance is all one can except to gain in one and at massive cost to the bank balance when you need to offload it due to new models !

They are Ferrari obsessed and that seems the ruin of them over making a drivers car, they just want to make faster cars than Ferrari do, I don't even think Porsche is on their radar to be honest after my VIP chat and tour with a Mr Farquhar at head office.

AlI I got all day was "Ferrari this " Ferrari that" etc etc

It's a very nice product which is very much outdated when the next models come out, a life style image I tend to think from the brand , (but alas Ferrari have them at that also) you never seen one at a track day, and they make these track cars which never do the lap times !

when I talked about "driver involvement" with Mr Farquhar it's not on his radar and he is in charge of the new 3 seater super car.

I said some of us still like a manual to which I got back, "well that's a bit slow for us"

So a step up you say ;-) a step towards automation is all I see and a 6 month wait for a service. but hey it's faster in a straight line than a Ferrari ! woo hoo


all imho of course :-p lets not forget that....

If you want to go fast for £120k then buy a 570S for sure, pretty much the fastest thing for the money and does look bling on the drive.

R you do come out with some twaddle.
Mclaren buy ,at least two cars a year from porsche and strip them down,the last being a turbo s and a gt3,so how are they not on there radar.One of the directors is a big porsche fan who owns a few porsches and knows who they are competeing with in the market place,and porsche are deff one of them.
I booked my car in for a serivice last week for this week,workshop cleaner than a hospital and good guys working on the cars,and the invoice was reasonable.

[Porsche911R]

Yellow491 said:

One of the directors is a big porsche fan who owns a few porsches

Says it all, Director own Pork :-) reminds me of the Noble car park where I live, it's full of Porkers or used to be, not been for a while.

not sure why they have the need to strip down Porkers mind you, Ferrari is their vice it seemed to me.

[993AL]

Porsche911R said:

993AL said:

You forgot the IMO there.

Subjective I know but i'd have to strongly disagree with your statement. I've had a lot of fun in my Porsches but the Macca is a step up IMO.

A step up in what out of interest ?

it's not build
it's not service
it's not reliability
it's not in feel
it's not in resale
it's not in history
it not in desirability
it's not in many many other area's , the you tubers cannot get out fast enough from the brand, where once they were getting all the toys.
None have nothing nice to say now it seems.

Cannot even bring up F1 now as they are just not there at all with the cars :-(

Dealers are way over loaded with work, too many cars not enough dealers now for the growing production numbers and owners.
3 months wait to get anything done ! that's even if they will take your car in at all !


So a step up in straight line performance is all one can except to gain in one and at massive cost to the bank balance when you need to offload it due to new models !

They are Ferrari obsessed and that seems the ruin of them over making a drivers car, they just want to make faster cars than Ferrari do, I don't even think Porsche is on their radar to be honest after my VIP chat and tour with a Mr Farquhar at head office.

AlI I got all day was "Ferrari this " Ferrari that" etc etc

It's a very nice product which is very much outdated when the next models come out, a life style image I tend to think from the brand , (but alas Ferrari have them at that also) you never seen one at a track day, and they make these track cars which never do the lap times !

when I talked about "driver involvement" with Mr Farquhar it's not on his radar and he is in charge of the new 3 seater super car.

I said some of us still like a manual to which I got back, "well that's a bit slow for us"

So a step up you say ;-) a step towards automation is all I see and a 6 month wait for a service. but hey it's faster in a straight line than a Ferrari ! woo hoo


all imho of course :-p lets not forget that....

If you want to go fast for £120k then buy a 570S for sure, pretty much the fastest thing for the money and does look bling on the drive.

It's in my first sentence, FUN

But since you bring the other subjects up, for me personally you're wrong in every point in your list except resale and history and I can't do anything about those. I don't buy any car to have bling on my driveway, I live in the middle of nowhere, only the cows, sheep and the odd horse sees my cars and they don't seem overly impressed or otherwise.

You're of course welcome to your views about automation, you're in denial about the fun to be had with either transmission. whatever floats yer boat.

[Porsche911R]

993AL said:

, you're in denial .

No I just like to drive my cars rather than it drive for me. that's just a personal choice and has nothing to do with denial.

I have gained a skillset which I enjoy using for fun and worked hard for.

If you get your fun via automation and speed, that's where we differ, but no right and wrong , what is fun for me is not fun for you and visa versa.

But goto any track day and see 30 or 40 GT cars these days and no Macca's. tells a bigger picture who is buying.

many you tube vids from the past fan boys on how these cars are one trick ponies and once you have done the speed thing , that trick leaves you with very little but a life style choice car.

I love the way they don't make SUV's or 4 seater cars, but for me it's a life style product over say choosing a Turbo S, neither of which I want to own.

but then I dislike all none GT Porkers or they special ones so nothing to get upset by, I would not own a normal 991 or Cayman as an example.


I hope the 600LT changes all that a bit.

If anything I lust after a Lotus again, so that's what I am after from a car and not even the big ones, just and Elise.

I had the 570S as a loan as selling my GT3 at the start was a option with the big overs and picking up a 570S for £110k would have put £60k in my pocket, but if I did not like it I did not like it ;-( I am sure every GT owners goes though this when cars are fetching £50k tax free, it can bump you up the ladder to another price bracket, or in my case put £60k in my pocket to run a 570S for free for 2 years and then some.


But when people say a 570S is a step up from a new GT3, I think they are the ones in really in denial just how good the GT cars really are now. I would not swap one for a 570S even if it gave me £60k spendo.

and really a 570S is GT3 RS money when both at list.

[The Surveyor]

911R, I just think you are over-thinking it.

You don't like the McLarens, you don't like most Porsche, you just like the GT cars. We get that and you really don't have to post reams of text just to justify your view, or to criticise other people choices.

One thing I will stick to is that your beloved GT cars will be better because of the competition that McLaren has brought to the market.

[hunter 66]

Have been in Friends 675 LT and 720 S on track and they are awesome cars and Macca does their own track Days which are well organised and fun events .

[993rsr]

Porsche911R said:

993AL said:

, you're in denial .

No I just like to drive my cars rather than it drive for me. that's just a personal choice and has nothing to do with denial.

I have gained a skillset which I enjoy using for fun and worked hard for.

If you get your fun via automation and speed, that's where we differ, but no right and wrong , what is fun for me is not fun for you and visa versa.

But goto any track day and see 30 or 40 GT cars these days and no Macca's. tells a bigger picture who is buying.

many you tube vids from the past fan boys on how these cars are one trick ponies and once you have done the speed thing , that trick leaves you with very little but a life style choice car.

I love the way they don't make SUV's or 4 seater cars, but for me it's a life style product over say choosing a Turbo S, neither of which I want to own.

but then I dislike all none GT Porkers or they special ones so nothing to get upset by, I would not own a normal 991 or Cayman as an example.


I hope the 600LT changes all that a bit.

If anything I lust after a Lotus again, so that's what I am after from a car and not even the big ones, just and Elise.

I had the 570S as a loan as selling my GT3 at the start was a option with the big overs and picking up a 570S for £110k would have put £60k in my pocket, but if I did not like it I did not like it ;-( I am sure every GT owners goes though this when cars are fetching £50k tax free, it can bump you up the ladder to another price bracket, or in my case put £60k in my pocket to run a 570S for free for 2 years and then some.


But when people say a 570S is a step up from a new GT3, I think they are the ones in really in denial just how good the GT cars really are now. I would not swap one for a 570S even if it gave me £60k spendo.

and really a 570S is GT3 RS money when both at list.

As I said in the other thread, this is an example of your egocentric bias which is getting on people's pip.

It's boring, you've done it to death.

[Yellow491]

Porsche911R said:

993AL said:

, you're in denial .

No I just like to drive my cars rather than it drive for me. that's just a personal choice and has nothing to do with denial.

I have gained a skillset which I enjoy using for fun and worked hard for.

If you get your fun via automation and speed, that's where we differ, but no right and wrong , what is fun for me is not fun for you and visa versa.

But goto any track day and see 30 or 40 GT cars these days and no Macca's. tells a bigger picture who is buying.

many you tube vids from the past fan boys on how these cars are one trick ponies and once you have done the speed thing , that trick leaves you with very little but a life style choice car.

I love the way they don't make SUV's or 4 seater cars, but for me it's a life style product over say choosing a Turbo S, neither of which I want to own.

but then I dislike all none GT Porkers or they special ones so nothing to get upset by, I would not own a normal 991 or Cayman as an example.


I hope the 600LT changes all that a bit.

If anything I lust after a Lotus again, so that's what I am after from a car and not even the big ones, just and Elise.

I had the 570S as a loan as selling my GT3 at the start was a option with the big overs and picking up a 570S for £110k would have put £60k in my pocket, but if I did not like it I did not like it ;-( I am sure every GT owners goes though this when cars are fetching £50k tax free, it can bump you up the ladder to another price bracket, or in my case put £60k in my pocket to run a 570S for free for 2 years and then some.


But when people say a 570S is a step up from a new GT3, I think they are the ones in really in denial just how good the GT cars really are now. I would not swap one for a 570S even if it gave me £60k spendo.

and really a 570S is GT3 RS money when both at list.

Those in denial are the last to wake up and smell the roses.
Should have gone to silverstone today or tomorow to see pure mclaren track days,no shortage of maca,s being thrashed ,you could then have a word with bruno and discuss about macs driving themselves
If you are not on the ball,these macs will bite you in the ass the same as any other performance car,may be even more so because you are traveling that bit faster.

[993rsr]

Yellow491 said:

Porsche911R said:

993AL said:

, you're in denial .

No I just like to drive my cars rather than it drive for me. that's just a personal choice and has nothing to do with denial.

I have gained a skillset which I enjoy using for fun and worked hard for.

If you get your fun via automation and speed, that's where we differ, but no right and wrong , what is fun for me is not fun for you and visa versa.

But goto any track day and see 30 or 40 GT cars these days and no Macca's. tells a bigger picture who is buying.

many you tube vids from the past fan boys on how these cars are one trick ponies and once you have done the speed thing , that trick leaves you with very little but a life style choice car.

I love the way they don't make SUV's or 4 seater cars, but for me it's a life style product over say choosing a Turbo S, neither of which I want to own.

but then I dislike all none GT Porkers or they special ones so nothing to get upset by, I would not own a normal 991 or Cayman as an example.


I hope the 600LT changes all that a bit.

If anything I lust after a Lotus again, so that's what I am after from a car and not even the big ones, just and Elise.

I had the 570S as a loan as selling my GT3 at the start was a option with the big overs and picking up a 570S for £110k would have put £60k in my pocket, but if I did not like it I did not like it ;-( I am sure every GT owners goes though this when cars are fetching £50k tax free, it can bump you up the ladder to another price bracket, or in my case put £60k in my pocket to run a 570S for free for 2 years and then some.


But when people say a 570S is a step up from a new GT3, I think they are the ones in really in denial just how good the GT cars really are now. I would not swap one for a 570S even if it gave me £60k spendo.

and really a 570S is GT3 RS money when both at list.

Those in denial are the last to wake up and smell the roses.
Should have gone to silverstone today or tomorow to see pure mclaren track days,no shortage of maca,s being thrashed ,you could then have a word with bruno and discuss about macs driving themselves
If you are not on the ball,these macs will bite you in the ass the same as any other performance car,may be even more so because you are traveling that bit faster.

Now I know you are THE staunch advocate of all things Porsche:-)

I am tempted to dip my toe into the MAC swimming pool, as I know your feedback will be balanced and unbiased unlike some on here who have never driven one in anger....

Whilst I've got an option on a lefty 991.2 RS next year, a nice 675LT is very appealing. After a memorable 2000 miles jaunt to Portugal a year ago, including a stunning drive down and two sublime days at Estoril and Portimao, the 991RS.1 was quite simply magnificent.

No doubt the Mac would be going faster but the thing holding me off is would it put up with my kind of abuse and be in the garage every week.

Plus the guys at Reading are absolute gems, have a long term relationship etc. etc.

Genuine question BTW.

Edited by 993rsr on Thursday 27th September 18:49

Edited by 993rsr on Thursday 27th September 18:51

[hunter 66]

993rsr think he 2 RS will be your kind of toy ..... as it will work hard ...

[993rsr]

hunter 66 said:

993rsr think he 2 RS will be your kind of toy ..... as it will work hard ...

Tend to agree Pete, the 1 was fab, totally fab and is the perfect partner to the 980.

[hunter 66]

The .2 3RS even in factory set up runs with little body roll and is really nice just lacks a bit power wise in the new world . A well set up 2RS would be a nice step forward ...... and may be able to go sideways ??
The Algarve , Estoril trip is really a good one maybe another in the future .

[Yellow491]

Hi Mate
Get where you are coming from,the porsche is such a car carved out in granite,reliable,fast,strong,involving every thing you want in a car,and the grief you give it;)
So in truth i think yes they will hold up,may be a bit more fragile, running costs would be up there,if in warranty mclaren would only cover you if you have it checked before the track day,no bad thing.Although there is now alternative warranty available that does not require checks before hand.
Knowing what you do on maintance with the good guys at reading, it may not be dissimilar.
Some are fitting steeldiscs,which is the main costs sorted for track use,tyres hold up well.

I know some of the use on the pre production /r&d cars that get a proper hammering and stand up to most things,they even refurb these cars and sell on at a later date,maybe my senna! One day,but i would need the windows blacked out,so that i cant be seen!
What is nothing short of amazing is the ride quality and flat cornering of the 675,my dad who has and still owns a gt3 and 50 plus years of porsche,was amazed at a local corner i took 30mph faster than my gt3,the car remained totally flat and composed.

Did russ not get one,or wont he let you rag it

[993rsr]

Yellow491 said:

Hi Mate
Get where you are coming from,the porsche is such a car carved out in granite,reliable,fast,strong,involving every thing you want in a car,and the grief you give it;)
So in truth i think yes they will hold up,may be a bit more fragile, running costs would be up there,if in warranty mclaren would only cover you if you have it checked before the track day,no bad thing.Although there is now alternative warranty available that does not require checks before hand.
Knowing what you do on maintance with the good guys at reading, it may not be dissimilar.
Some are fitting steeldiscs,which is the main costs sorted for track use,tyres hold up well.

I know some of the use on the pre production /r&d cars that get a proper hammering and stand up to most things,they even refurb these cars and sell on at a later date,maybe my senna! One day,but i would need the windows blacked out,so that i cant be seen!
What is nothing short of amazing is the ride quality and flat cornering of the 675,my dad who has and still owns a gt3 and 50 plus years of porsche,was amazed at a local corner i took 30mph faster than my gt3,the car remained totally flat and composed.

Did russ not get one,or wont he let you rag it

Interesting, the lack of LSD and the resultant wear on the rear ceramics is a good point, especially when showboating but you can as you say replace with steel.

I'd like to try one at some point for sure, I did get a 20 minute drive on some local roads in RG's, he was not impressed :-)

It needed a new gearbox at 800 miles, which kind of worried me. He's moved on to GT2RS and Performante now.

[Yellow491]

993rsr said:

Interesting, the lack of LSD and the resultant wear on the rear ceramics is a good point, especially when showboating but you can as you say replace with steel.

I'd like to try one at some point for sure, I did get a 20 minute drive on some local roads in RG's, he was not impressed :-)

It needed a new gearbox at 800 miles, which kind of worried me. He's moved on to GT2RS and Performante now.

At least he cant shove the gearstick through the dash on the gt2rs;)nice pair of cars.
I am sure like other makes there can be issues,not heard of many with replacement boxes so far,i always drive mine in sport sport unless on track,it seems fine so far!
Its a diificult choice,porsche are a known at the moment and always a good weapon of choice.