Is this a fair price for a 'leggy' gen 1 comfort gt3?

[MDL111]

RC1 said:

MDL111 said:

but be aware you might have a 10k service bill at some point (or a lot more if the engine needs a rebuild)

i never factored that into my decision making... is it really that likely?

Depends on the ownership period - 10 years definitely, 1 year unlikely

[GT4RS]

RC1 said:

GT4RS said:

Apparently 10k is the magic number to bring these cars up to scratch.

Curious. Can you break that 10k down for me?

It’s a number which has been banded around on here for years, I’m sure someone who’s had a painful experience will be along shortly!

[evodarren]

RC1
It could be the 997.1 GT3 may not be for you.
If your that worried about depreciation, refresh costs on an 11 year old car, maybe go do something newer.
If you do convince yourself that a GT3 is for you I can say I’ve owned mine for 6 years. It had 9,000 miles when I got it. Now has nearly 38,000 . I’ve loved every minute. Always had OPC warranty and just renewed for another 2 years. It still feels as tight as when I got it, had mine front shocks rebuilt by Centre Gravity as one had a squeeky DU bush, other than that anything else covered by warranty.

[GT4RS]

Let me use three examples of some of the Porsche cars I have owned from new which have all been under warranty but have had faults which cost thousands not hundreds to repair.

Porsche Boxter roof frame creaking, in the end the replaces the roof frame. Car less than 6 months old. Had a Porsche hire car for months not weeks which must of cost them.

Porsche Boxster manual gear cables failed (twice) less than two years old. This may of been less than a grand on the first occasion, more on the second as they changed other parts.

Porsche 997.2s lost drive, pdk gearbox failure. Two years old


Porsche 991.2 4s oil leak, engine out. Less than 6 months old.

My most reliable cars have been cayennes and
Macans.

That aside the service I received on all occasions from Porsche was superb, get warranty if you can is my advise!

Just remember mileage = bills no matter the make or model.

[Cunno]

MDL111 said:

RC1 said:

MDL111 said:

but be aware you might have a 10k service bill at some point (or a lot more if the engine needs a rebuild)

i never factored that into my decision making... is it really that likely?

Depends on the ownership period - 10 years definitely, 1 year unlikely

So £1k a year over the normal servicing.

There are a few on here who like to use the word refresh and big numbers to scare people for some reason. Yes prestige cars cost money, and cost even more money to run and maintain, that's a fact for any old car. If you buy a well maintained car you won't see any of these big bills buy something that hasn't been looked after and yes the cost will pile up quick.
Make sure you know what your looking at, and if you don't get it inspected by a pro, personally won't trust an OPC to do this (just my experience).
So if you buy a maintained car in good condition what would you expect to be paying out

Minor service £250
Mayor service £650
If your shocks wear out they can be serviced at about £600 + fitting
Re bushing hundreds not thousands
Replacement diff plates (cup) £650 + fitting £600
As for the engines, well my Indy has stripped and built many, but very few are due to wear most have been up grades more power etc, which lets you see how they are wearing and the common return is they are fine no wear on the bottom end crank good, top end normal just a clean and polish. On the high mileage cars +80K new values and seating only. These cars are tough. Reality is these engines are the strongest bit, and can take abuse. You would have to be extreme unlucky to have a failure. If the worse happens Porsche will sell a replacement unit (exchange) with 2 year warranty for £15k (2012 price) which isn't to bad considering the true cost of these engines.
Alternators can fail believe £200
Starter motors can fail £800
Brake discs and pads (now this really is a mtce item not refresh) 2k per axle if steel, silly money if you have ceramics but there are now after market items that will half the price of OPC parts

I've owed mine over ten years now and the car is nearly on 90k miles, it's heavily tracked and up rated and does cost eye watering amounts to keep mechanically sound but if your running it as a road car, odd track day then the costs are no more than any prestige cars imo.

[BrotherMouzone]

MDL111 said:

If you are worried about depreciation - ie not a keeper - then wait imo - 996 gt3 was a 30-40k car at some point, no reason the 997 won’t get close to that level - esp given the insecurity re UK economic development

If that was to happen (996 GT3 to £30k, 997 GT3 to £40k etc), what about modern classics like CSL, NSX, Z3M Coupe, Clio V6, 550 etc? If CSL was to drop to 20s / NSX to high teens / Z3MC to £10k, like they were 6-8 years ago, then I’m sure I, and many others, would jump to buy them.

I just can’t see it happening.

[MDL111]

For the people who say big numbers getting bandied around for no reason

Scuderia this year (from memory)
- 3.5k for exhaust back box
- 1.8k for brake pads
- 1.7k for tyres
- 4K for warranty
- 3.7k for big service

2008 car so not even as old as a 997.1 GT3 - and no big bill, nothing went wrong etc - this is a just normal year and c 15k km. Assume a Porsche is a little cheaper, and assume in exchange some stuff goes wrong by driving it hard/being unlucky - there you have your 10k year without your car completely imploding

[Harris_I]

Cunno said:

If the worse happens Porsche will sell a replacement unit (exchange) with 2 year warranty for £15k (2012 price) which isn't to bad considering the true cost of these engines.

Are you sure about that? That would negate the need to do a full rebuild every 80-100 hours on the Cup engines. Several years ago I was quoted approx £40k for a replacement engine. (Although to be fair there was no mention of exchange, but the implication would be the old unit would be worth ballpark at least 25k in trade-in which sounds too much.)

[Dammit]

BrotherMouzone said:

If that was to happen (996 GT3 to £30k, 997 GT3 to £40k etc), what about modern classics like CSL, NSX, Z3M Coupe, Clio V6, 550 etc? If CSL was to drop to 20s / NSX to high teens / Z3MC to £10k, like they were 6-8 years ago, then I’m sure I, and many others, would jump to buy them.

I just can’t see it happening.

You're making the assumption (which, tbf, may not be unreasonable) that you and your peers are insulated from the economic shock, can cope with dramatic increases in interest rates (if that happens) etc etc.

If you work for a global company that is headquartered elsewhere, and values you enough to move you to a different territory if things go really badly then yes - you should be in a good position for a bit of disaster capitalism.

If your employer is UK based and you're part of the team that gets liquidated then you're not going to be looking at a 996.1 GT3 CS as a priority.

With that said, it looks like we're either going to BINO, or it'll get cancelled, so a gradual slump rather than a sudden arrest is most likely at this point I'd say.

[MDL111]

BrotherMouzone said:

MDL111 said:

If you are worried about depreciation - ie not a keeper - then wait imo - 996 gt3 was a 30-40k car at some point, no reason the 997 won’t get close to that level - esp given the insecurity re UK economic development

If that was to happen (996 GT3 to £30k, 997 GT3 to £40k etc), what about modern classics like CSL, NSX, Z3M Coupe, Clio V6, 550 etc? If CSL was to drop to 20s / NSX to high teens / Z3MC to £10k, like they were 6-8 years ago, then I’m sure I, and many others, would jump to buy them.

I just can’t see it happening.

Assuming the cars that currently cost say 100k (eg 540/570/12c, 991 gt3, 430 Ferrari) drop to c 50k-60k eventually, I’d say it is certainly possible - maybe not a certainty but not impossible either imo. I’d buy some of those old cars at those prices, but how many others will still be interested in a 20-30 year old relatively high production car

550s on the continent have already given back probably 30 percent of their gains over the last 12 months in asking prices and they don’t seem to be selling even at the lower prices.
997 GT3 asking prices are down too (996 seems stable but not much selling best as I can tell)
Z3M prices still strong - don’t watch them close enough to know if they are selling though - they are not selling fast as the cars I looked at are still around a few months later
CSL I only watch in the UK as too expensive as LHD, prices seemed to drop and cars were around for a long time though when I monitored them over the summer/autumn
Clio V6 and NSX i don’t know enough prices to have an opinion (just know that a V6 is too expensive for me at current levels)
Carrera GTs at the lower end of the market seem to be sticking around, as do Aventador SVs, 991 GT2 RS, 675 LTs and many more (i only watch the lower end)
The same Pajero Evo I wanted to buy c 6 months ago is still for sale

Many other cars I watch and not much seems to sell ..... yes, I spend way too much time looking at cars for sale

[Cunno]

MDL111 said:

For the people who say big numbers getting bandied around for no reason

Scuderia this year (from memory)
- 3.5k for exhaust back box
- 1.8k for brake pads
- 1.7k for tyres
- 4K for warranty
- 3.7k for big service

2008 car so not even as old as a 997.1 GT3 - and no big bill, nothing went wrong etc - this is a just normal year and c 15k km. Assume a Porsche is a little cheaper, and assume in exchange some stuff goes wrong by driving it hard/being unlucky - there you have your 10k year without your car completely imploding

Ferrari isn't a Porsche, no one is saying big bill can't come but buy wise and running cost can be kept reasonable

Porsche Gt3 v Sud

Scuderia this year (from memory)
- 3.5k for exhaust back box £750 on eBay new OPC
- 1.8k for brake pads £600 all 4 corners
- 1.7k for tyres £1200
- 4K for warranty believe £1500
- 3.7k for big service £650 from an Indy

[BertBert]

I can't believe that a GT3 motor will be £15k.
Bert

[Kettmark]

How's your search going Bert?

[MDL111]

Cunno said:

MDL111 said:

For the people who say big numbers getting bandied around for no reason

Scuderia this year (from memory)
- 3.5k for exhaust back box
- 1.8k for brake pads
- 1.7k for tyres
- 4K for warranty
- 3.7k for big service

2008 car so not even as old as a 997.1 GT3 - and no big bill, nothing went wrong etc - this is a just normal year and c 15k km. Assume a Porsche is a little cheaper, and assume in exchange some stuff goes wrong by driving it hard/being unlucky - there you have your 10k year without your car completely imploding

Ferrari isn't a Porsche, no one is saying big bill can't come but buy wise and running cost can be kept reasonable

Porsche Gt3 v Sud

Scuderia this year (from memory)
- 3.5k for exhaust back box £750 on eBay new OPC
- 1.8k for brake pads £600 all 4 corners
- 1.7k for tyres £1200
- 4K for warranty believe £1500
- 3.7k for big service £650 from an Indy

The above mentioned car is a PCCB car with close to 70k miles though (my assumption was it gets serviced at an OPC also, if not then prices are probably indeed lower)

[RC1]

It has steels as confirmed by vendor.

[Cunno]

Harris_I said:

Cunno said:

If the worse happens Porsche will sell a replacement unit (exchange) with 2 year warranty for £15k (2012 price) which isn't to bad considering the true cost of these engines.

Are you sure about that? That would negate the need to do a full rebuild every 80-100 hours on the Cup engines. Several years ago I was quoted approx £40k for a replacement engine. (Although to be fair there was no mention of exchange, but the implication would be the old unit would be worth ballpark at least 25k in trade-in which sounds too much.)

Can’t comment on cup cars I’m talking GT3 road car which are used on track. Yes cup cars have recommended rebuilds ever 80-100 but road cars aren’t exposed to the same stresses even if used on track.
The £15k price was correct in 2012 because that’s what a replacement exchange engine cost me from Porsche. Exchange engines aren’t completely new they could have some serviceable parts such as casing etc, but do come with a 2 year warranty so I expect this is why there cheaper than a new engine bought out right.
It's now done 50k miles, striped it down 2 years ago rebuilt to 3.8 with some extras and goes very well. Minimal work needed when converted.

[MDL111]

RC1 said:

It has steels as confirmed by vendor.

Ah ok that helps a lot then - one of the major cost items not applicable

[ttdan]

Most GT3’s don’t even need a back box, x pipe will do just fine and sound glorious :-) the only back box issue that revealed itself was the titanium one on the RS of which a few have been known to crack. PCCB will last for ever on a road car and if you were unlucky enough to need new discs then go steel and love it.. most people only like these for the yellow callipers anyway...performance difference is negligible and if you need to save weight then start with wheels.

I don’t think running a gen 1 exclusively inside the OPC network is viable. The specialist network are so much better with these cars and far more reasonably priced I wouldn’t warranty one any more either.

As Cunno ( hi mate) says, not a massively expensive car to run relatively speaking.

[RC1]

Cunno said:

Ferrari isn't a Porsche, no one is saying big bill can't come but buy wise and running cost can be kept reasonable

Porsche Gt3 v Sud

Scuderia this year (from memory)
- 3.5k for exhaust back box £750 on eBay new OPC
- 1.8k for brake pads £600 all 4 corners
- 1.7k for tyres £1200
- 4K for warranty believe £1500
- 3.7k for big service £650 from an Indy

consistent with my expectations and id be budgeting roughly 1k per annum for the warranty

for work id likely be using jzm or fearnsport but likely not an opc but would spanner myself on some things

[Cunno]

ttdan said:

As Cunno ( hi mate) says, not a massively expensive car to run relatively speaking.

Hi Dan you doing RS day? Staying over night, before normal place?