People seem to be taking a bit of a bath on GT3 cars
Discussion
Jon666 said:
Funny how quick things have changed. Some examples that seem almost unbelievable now...
- I got 3% discount on my Speciale
- My friend was offered a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 allocation having only bought one previous Porsche
- I was offered a 997 GT2 with 10k discount
- My OPC had 2 Cayman Rs delivered with no buyers
Normality will return...I hope!
The good old days!!! I’d love a GT2RS at old times 30%-3 year depreciation!!!!- I got 3% discount on my Speciale
- My friend was offered a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 allocation having only bought one previous Porsche
- I was offered a 997 GT2 with 10k discount
- My OPC had 2 Cayman Rs delivered with no buyers
Normality will return...I hope!
Having read through most of the thread and as a frequent OPC customer I can either accept I’m a second class visitor or go elsewhere. I have to accept
That I won’t get a GT car new .However the showroom is holding 3 GT (used) which were all supplied by the OPC, priced at a premium over new.
OK it’s a market......but doesn’t say much for PorscheUK
That I won’t get a GT car new .However the showroom is holding 3 GT (used) which were all supplied by the OPC, priced at a premium over new.
OK it’s a market......but doesn’t say much for PorscheUK
xbowdan said:
The Surveyor said:
I think your last sentence sums things up perfectly. As somebody who would potentially buy a Porsche in the future, the whole OPC game is the main thing that is putting me off. I won't pay 'overs' for a stock production car, I won't play the game of having to buy (and a significant loss) multiple Porsche models that I don't want to climb an imaginary ladder to get to the front of a queue for the model I would like either. I'm sure Porsche couldn't care less that I dismissed a GT3 RS and bought a 570s, but as the economic climate changes, maybe one day they will.
Halo models are a great way of advertising a brands core strength, Halo models nobody can actually buy soon become a source of customer delusion IMHO.
So you wanted a GT3 but wouldn’t pay ‘overs’.Halo models are a great way of advertising a brands core strength, Halo models nobody can actually buy soon become a source of customer delusion IMHO.
So you bought a 570s instead.
So given general macca depreciation; you’ll likely lose more on the 570S at list that you would have done paying overs on a GT3?
Is that not cutting off the nose to spite your face?
The Surveyor said:
xbowdan said:
The Surveyor said:
I think your last sentence sums things up perfectly. As somebody who would potentially buy a Porsche in the future, the whole OPC game is the main thing that is putting me off. I won't pay 'overs' for a stock production car, I won't play the game of having to buy (and a significant loss) multiple Porsche models that I don't want to climb an imaginary ladder to get to the front of a queue for the model I would like either. I'm sure Porsche couldn't care less that I dismissed a GT3 RS and bought a 570s, but as the economic climate changes, maybe one day they will.
Halo models are a great way of advertising a brands core strength, Halo models nobody can actually buy soon become a source of customer delusion IMHO.
So you wanted a GT3 but wouldn’t pay ‘overs’.Halo models are a great way of advertising a brands core strength, Halo models nobody can actually buy soon become a source of customer delusion IMHO.
So you bought a 570s instead.
So given general macca depreciation; you’ll likely lose more on the 570S at list that you would have done paying overs on a GT3?
Is that not cutting off the nose to spite your face?
ked anyways. A lot of cars out there now, a lot of choice.Porsche911R said:
isaldiri said:
LaSource said:
Lost interest in the brand to some extent anyway.
Stockholm syndrome. You know you'll be back.... 
EGTE said:
Porsche911R said:
isaldiri said:
LaSource said:
Lost interest in the brand to some extent anyway.
Stockholm syndrome. You know you'll be back.... I guess he means nobody else makes a M/RWD/200+ car that seems to hold its money as he once banged on about buying the Evora and how it was a better drivers car than the GT4
I have a couple of RS for which I paid list. Even then I am sure the bubble is over. There is a brutal recession on the way. Markets are in turmoil.
Let’s see in six months. I bight my cars for use and not for investment and if they drop to nothing I don’t really care. I expect prices to go well below list.
Let’s see in six months. I bight my cars for use and not for investment and if they drop to nothing I don’t really care. I expect prices to go well below list.
PS2018 said:
At same purchase price today, fast forward 3 years and I doubt you’d be in the same boat. The GT3 would be worth >£20k more than the 570. Depreciation curve will remain much steeper on the (regular) McLaren series cars
I appreciate I'm preaching to a Porsche church, but for me the purchase value was more important than any notional future value. As I say, the extra cost of the 570s is easily justified to me. If I had a GT3 sat in my garage I'm sure I'd think differently.Enjoy what you own, not what you don't.
It’s a market, someone said that earlier. You pays your money and takes your choice.
In a market where £10 notes cost £7 there is demand, there’s demand up until that £10 note costs £9.99. When it’s costs £10 it all levels off and becomes more about wether you like £10 notes or not. It does this up until that £10 note costs about £15 at which time you really need to be into £10 notes to want one....some people will be. :-)
Porsche just need to sell their “£10 note” for £10. It’s fascinating that they don’t (or not to in the UK) I recall dealers in the US selling new cars over list many times.
UK competition law would not allow a dealer to be forced to sell at list price. In the same way they can and do sell under list when it suits the notion that they can’t sell over list is wrong and if Porsche GB are telling dealers they can’t then it’s essentially illegal I would have thought.
I know value threads are boring but it’s a compelling subject :-)
In a market where £10 notes cost £7 there is demand, there’s demand up until that £10 note costs £9.99. When it’s costs £10 it all levels off and becomes more about wether you like £10 notes or not. It does this up until that £10 note costs about £15 at which time you really need to be into £10 notes to want one....some people will be. :-)
Porsche just need to sell their “£10 note” for £10. It’s fascinating that they don’t (or not to in the UK) I recall dealers in the US selling new cars over list many times.
UK competition law would not allow a dealer to be forced to sell at list price. In the same way they can and do sell under list when it suits the notion that they can’t sell over list is wrong and if Porsche GB are telling dealers they can’t then it’s essentially illegal I would have thought.
I know value threads are boring but it’s a compelling subject :-)
Cheib said:
CrashBang said:
This ^
Worth mentioning that Pistonheads is the only forum where any GT3 threads are dominated by values, residuals, spec, overs etc etc - Which could suggest that many whom post here are indeed speculators with ulterior motives.
Check out Rennlist....there are hundreds of threads on spec, colour, deviated stitching, residuals, ADM (dealer margin over and above RRP) etc.Worth mentioning that Pistonheads is the only forum where any GT3 threads are dominated by values, residuals, spec, overs etc etc - Which could suggest that many whom post here are indeed speculators with ulterior motives.
GTSjohn said:
Cheib said:
CrashBang said:
This ^
Worth mentioning that Pistonheads is the only forum where any GT3 threads are dominated by values, residuals, spec, overs etc etc - Which could suggest that many whom post here are indeed speculators with ulterior motives.
Check out Rennlist....there are hundreds of threads on spec, colour, deviated stitching, residuals, ADM (dealer margin over and above RRP) etc.Worth mentioning that Pistonheads is the only forum where any GT3 threads are dominated by values, residuals, spec, overs etc etc - Which could suggest that many whom post here are indeed speculators with ulterior motives.
Cheib said:
Nope. It’s very prevalent in the US. That’s what ADM is...the premium dealers are allowed to charge over list. Not very dealer but it seems in places like California it’s pretty common for people to pay $10k to $30k over list to get an allocation. Causes as much angst as the overs/flipping does here.
But even that would be more preferable than the 'system' we have here. It's more transparent than what goes on here, basically the dealer can charge over rrp for in demand cars. It happens on other cars over there not just Porsche GT cars.As strange as it sounds I'd rather any overs I paid went to the dealer. To me psychologically that would be just like paying more to fly in peak season, a bit annoying but it wouldnt keep me up at night.
I wouldn't want any of my hard earned going to an individual who got the allocation because he was one of the Principal's mates. That would annoy the s
t out of me.I have no idea if this actually happens, but I've read people mention it on this forum many times.
I
I actually find this thread interesting, more and more people seem to have accepted that the overs party has ended (deep down we all knew it was slowly happening). I’m also surprised on the amount of people who openly say that they are now not interested in these cars now due to the way Porsche and it’s dealers have handled the allocation system over the last few year.
In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
Deep said:
But even that would be more preferable than the 'system' we have here. It's more transparent than what goes on here, basically the dealer can charge over rrp for in demand cars. It happens on other cars over there not just Porsche GT cars.
As strange as it sounds I'd rather any overs I paid went to the dealer. To me psychologically that would be just like paying more to fly in peak season, a bit annoying but it wouldnt keep me up at night.
I wouldn't want any of my hard earned going to an individual who got the allocation because he was one of the Principal's mates. That would annoy the st out of me.
I have no idea if this actually happens, but I've read people mention it on this forum many times.
I
I went through this ADM crap with the Hellcat back a few years. It is not a farer way to do business. Example. You agree $20k over for GT3. It is about due at the dealer and you are counting down the days till you can collect your pride and joy. Just as you get to the finish line you get told that someone has bagged your GT3 as they where willing to give $40k over. This happened a lot with the Hellcats. As strange as it sounds I'd rather any overs I paid went to the dealer. To me psychologically that would be just like paying more to fly in peak season, a bit annoying but it wouldnt keep me up at night.
I wouldn't want any of my hard earned going to an individual who got the allocation because he was one of the Principal's mates. That would annoy the s
t out of me.I have no idea if this actually happens, but I've read people mention it on this forum many times.
I
SRT Hellcat said:
I went through this ADM crap with the Hellcat back a few years. It is not a farer way to do business. Example. You agree $20k over for GT3. It is about due at the dealer and you are counting down the days till you can collect your pride and joy. Just as you get to the finish line you get told that someone has bagged your GT3 as they where willing to give $40k over. This happened a lot with the Hellcats.
Well the flip side is that afaik in the US you can also pull out of your order before taking delivery irrespective of the price you may have agreed when actually ordering the car. So in the case of a depreciating car, many people can and do force the dealer to accept a lower price if the timespan between ordering and delivery was long enough to allow for prices to have slipped more than expected. Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff