People seem to be taking a bit of a bath on GT3 cars
Discussion
SRT Hellcat said:
I went through this ADM crap with the Hellcat back a few years. It is not a farer way to do business. Example. You agree $20k over for GT3. It is about due at the dealer and you are counting down the days till you can collect your pride and joy. Just as you get to the finish line you get told that someone has bagged your GT3 as they where willing to give $40k over. This happened a lot with the Hellcats.
I didn't know that. I assumed that once they had agreed to sell you a car at a certain premium the deal was done. I didn't realise you could be gazumped.Thanks
GT4RS said:
I actually find this thread interesting, more and more people seem to have accepted that the overs party has ended (deep down we all knew it was slowly happening). I’m also surprised on the amount of people who openly say that they are now not interested in these cars now due to the way Porsche and it’s dealers have handled the allocation system over the last few year.
In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
I would say you're right in thinking there could fairly soon be an over supply issue with the GT cars in general.In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
How Porsche will deal with this I think is just by assessing the new model demands at the time via dealer feedback and basically adjusting capacity to suit, ensuring there's enough hype and talk of limited supply to keep a healthy interest and ensure a decent amount of cars are actually sold.
Trade in price level for older models will also be a factor in how many latest models are sold I would think.
Some who have previously had some free motoring and free model upgrades may bail out if it's going to cost them next time.
RDMcG said:
I have a couple of RS for which I paid list. Even then I am sure the bubble is over. There is a brutal recession on the way. Markets are in turmoil.
Let’s see in six months. I bight my cars for use and not for investment and if they drop to nothing I don’t really care. I expect prices to go well below list.
+1... Hard to ignore the signals that the next recession/crash is round the corner.., in fact by looking at the indexes I would go a step further and say it's already started.. FTSE -13% YTD / SnP -10% YTD / Dow -9% YTD, QE programs tightening and/or coming to a close, property stagnating and Gold is starting to gain momentum again..Let’s see in six months. I bight my cars for use and not for investment and if they drop to nothing I don’t really care. I expect prices to go well below list.
The FED raised rates to 2.50% just to give them more headroom to slash them again when recession hits, and we are on 0.75% which will make next to no difference at zero, gone are the days in 2008 when we had 5% headroom in interest rates to boost consumer confidence/affordability in borrowing and corresponding spending. Now add in Brexit, and the negative impact to business, most GT car owners are not squeeking along on 20% income tax are they, but businessmen enjoying nice dividends on their successes, and that tide can turn quickly resulting in liquidation of assets by the over leveraged, negative equity on property.. and after that point supply and demand will once again drive prices and a correction to this bubble will follow ..
If Porsche sell a GT car for c125K, it just isn't work £180/200 in the overs market.. end of.. it's just confidence in this charade keeping going a little bit longer.., that can and will dry up very quickly..
As for this absolute b
ks about greasing the palms of your OPC and DP buying a load of cars you don't want just to get on the list and into the one you do.. on what planet does that make any sense whatsoever..? they can't afford to have cars on site and not selling taking up space for long without moving their prices down..If folk have cash to burn, play the game and enjoy the cars, they are great toys.. but I bought my last GT3 end of 2009 18 months old for £30K under list, and those times will return, sooner than most think.. I'm ready and waiting..
Edited by 1 Pheasant Plucker on Saturday 22 December 16:15
anonymous said:
[redacted]
To be fair - with the exception of genuine limited models (like 997 4.0RS, GT2 RS, 991R etc) I don't think many people actually bought modern GT cars for investment purposes... at least I hope not! They bought them because they wanted one of the best cars at that level (£), knew the residuals would be strong, and if using finance - took advantage of large (balloon) gfv's Porsche were putting across them. In comparison to similar vehicles from other manufactures it was cheap motoring - even with paying 'overs'. It made sense. Problem you have today is the supply vs demand scale is tipping the other way. The UK and global economy have shown it's not a one way ride anymore which in turn has sent 'danger' signals to consumer confidence. It was always going to happen but we have had such a long upward run it started to seem the norm to pay overs for certain cars that you can't buy (unless you have some good-standing with your AD). Unless we officially enter a recession I don't think values are suddenly going to drop off a cliff, but I do think buyers are not prepared to take big gambles when they know supply is increasing and we are entering uncertainty. I think it's just a long overdue correction. It'll only be 12 months or so until 991.1s are under £100k and 991.2s are below list.
GT4RS said:
I actually find this thread interesting, more and more people seem to have accepted that the overs party has ended (deep down we all knew it was slowly happening). I’m also surprised on the amount of people who openly say that they are now not interested in these cars now due to the way Porsche and it’s dealers have handled the allocation system over the last few year.
In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
Let’s hope not / I doubt it In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
RSVP911 said:
GT4RS said:
I actually find this thread interesting, more and more people seem to have accepted that the overs party has ended (deep down we all knew it was slowly happening). I’m also surprised on the amount of people who openly say that they are now not interested in these cars now due to the way Porsche and it’s dealers have handled the allocation system over the last few year.
In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
Let’s hope not / I doubt it In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
Slippydiff said:
991.1 GT3 must have something intrinsically wrong with its dynamics
I'm probably going to get shot down by the twins for saying, but... lb for £ I think the .1GT3 is the best value out of all of them atm. Yeah the .2 is newer and shinier but the .1 will give 99.84% of owners the same excitement, for 40% less cash. Drop an OPC 2-year warranty on it and job's a good un.throt said:
RSVP911 said:
GT4RS said:
I actually find this thread interesting, more and more people seem to have accepted that the overs party has ended (deep down we all knew it was slowly happening). I’m also surprised on the amount of people who openly say that they are now not interested in these cars now due to the way Porsche and it’s dealers have handled the allocation system over the last few year.
In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
Let’s hope not / I doubt it In my opinion this whole overs party has probably allowed Mclaren UK to pick quite a few new customers.
My next question is how will Porsche UK handle it? The used car sales market already seems to have an over supply of these Porsche gt cars sat for sale in the UK and these are clearly not flying out the door. Is this due to Porsche being experts at churning out these halo cars in greater and greater numbers? We only have to look at the 600 odd 991.2 gt3 cars made to know this and it’s not going to be long before another 600 plus shiny new gt4 cars turn up to dilute this small market place even further.
If nothing is done I can only see the prices falling even further. Will the majority of people who have been buying these cars since around 2013/2014 who have only really bought them to flip or to try their best to minimise depreciation still want them?
We have discussed this before, how many left is easy to work out. Just over 600
Yeah good point re manual - I forgot the .2 now offers a choice, although personally I would go for a 997 GT3 if wanting manual.. but appreciate it won't have the LED lights, fancy stitching etc etc so might be a no goer for some.
As for engine issues on .1 - wouldn't be a concern for me whilst the car still qualifies for Porsche Extended Warranty (15 years?)
As for engine issues on .1 - wouldn't be a concern for me whilst the car still qualifies for Porsche Extended Warranty (15 years?)
Phooey said:
Yeah good point re manual - I forgot the .2 now offers a choice, although personally I would go for a 997 GT3 if wanting manual.. but appreciate it won't have the LED lights, fancy stitching etc etc so might be a no goer for some.
As for engine issues on .1 - wouldn't be a concern for me whilst the car still qualifies for Porsche Extended Warranty (15 years?)
Well i would not touch a Gen 1 because of all the negativity about the engine. Plus would you want all the inconvenience of replacing the engine in your car if it was to let go again?As for engine issues on .1 - wouldn't be a concern for me whilst the car still qualifies for Porsche Extended Warranty (15 years?)
cayman-black said:
Well i would not touch a Gen 1 because of all the negativity about the engine. Plus would you want all the inconvenience of replacing the engine in your car if it was to let go again?
If it blows it blows. It's hardly inconvenience. I had an engine rebuild on my previous Cayenne - took approx 4 weeks. In the meantime I had a courtesy car to drive around in so can't say I suffered actual inconvenience. My experience so far <touches wood> of OPC extended warranty has been first class. I'd much rather suffer a failure in a Porsche than any other brand.Worth remembering the engine isn't bound to break, although I wouldn't run one *without* warranty, but then I wouldn't run one without warranty anyway even if there were no engine issues. It's all the other tech (RWS, PDK etc) that worries me more.
Deansfield said:
If it blows it blows !!!!
I WOULD BE GUTTED
Without wishing to seem harsh, don't buy a low volume car built in the thousands, not hundreds of thousands. I had an early V8 Esprit and suffered an engine failure on that. Aways run these kind of cars with warranty and expect you will have more isses with a specialist car.I WOULD BE GUTTED
Regards
Fred
Deansfield said:
Porsche have made over 1million 911 cars now
and have an excellent history of building reliable engines, one of the main reasons I’ve bought and enjoyed them for many years now ,
If the most important part of my car blew up I would be like any other driver. SICK !
Yes, the Mezger in particular is bullet proof. Rarely do you hear of engines blowing up. There's the well documented issues with some of the non GT water-cooled but even then only a small percentage. Not sure a Porsche can be compared with a Lotus for reliability, Lotus = lots of trouble usually serious! and have an excellent history of building reliable engines, one of the main reasons I’ve bought and enjoyed them for many years now ,
If the most important part of my car blew up I would be like any other driver. SICK !
I ran TVRs for 11 years. The risk of my fully warrantied 991.1 GT3 engine blowing doesn’t keep me awake at night the way my Tuscan speed 6 did, even after replacing every moving part :-)
I paid at least 35k less for mine than even the cheapest, high (relative) mile, low spec PDK gen 2 for sale in the OPC network*. That’s for a car on a 2017 replacement engine, so as good as a 3.8 can get. It feels like good value to me, even more so the first time I revved it out to 9k rpm.
I paid at least 35k less for mine than even the cheapest, high (relative) mile, low spec PDK gen 2 for sale in the OPC network*. That’s for a car on a 2017 replacement engine, so as good as a 3.8 can get. It feels like good value to me, even more so the first time I revved it out to 9k rpm.
- Excepting the amazing value ex press car. That looks like the deal of the century - hats off!
Phooey said:
If it blows it blows. It's hardly inconvenience. I had an engine rebuild on my previous Cayenne - took approx 4 weeks. In the meantime I had a courtesy car to drive around in so can't say I suffered actual inconvenience. My experience so far <touches wood> of OPC extended warranty has been first class. I'd much rather suffer a failure in a Porsche than any other brand.
I can't comment on the probability of the GT3 engine going pop, but from my experience, Porsche Assistance is one of the worst out there. The small print says a replacement premium car (via Enterprise) will be given "if available". I assumed this meant if a premium car is available. It actually means any car. I've been without a replacement car on the three occasions mine has had a "break down" over the past two years.In my opinion, Porsche could learn a lot from BMW and Mercedes.
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