997.1 GT3 - 911 Virgin

997.1 GT3 - 911 Virgin

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Discussion

ttdan

930 posts

131 months

Monday 11th February
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You can always put a lovely pair of Pole Positions in any 997 for less than 1500 quid. I must admit I never took my own advice as the first 997 I had was a “comfort “. I took it to Oulton and the ring and traded it as soon as I could after that for a CS. The moment you start to lean on the car as the maker intended those seats don’t quite work....Once the bug bites the wallet caves in...

Interestingly I don’t think the 997 GT3 market is a “track car” market anymore so most covet the spec for the rarity which is fair enough but just makes the comfort car even more of a relative bargain. They are identical apart from those few things, the comfy pulls just as hard, turns just as well, stops just as well smile

I do a have a lovely Swiss “divers” watch but I have never been in the bath with it let alone the sea down to 600m smile


Kettmark

271 posts

91 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
I've been looking at the gt3 market for a while now and taken the decision to sit tight in my 997 c2s for the next few months. I've purchased some carbon folding buckets to put in it and take out again come sale time.
I will then be in a position to consider a comfort spec car should the right club sport not be found, and put the buckets in the comfort car.
Win win.

evodarren

309 posts

72 months

Monday 11th February
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short-shift said:
Digga said:
Even back in 2017 when I got mine, the difficulty I had was finding a car anywhere near the right spec at a dealer I trusted and with a history I could 'buy'. I'd actually got my heart set on a silver car, as I'd got a silver 996 turbo and really liked the colour (I know some thing it boring). A really nice looking car came up at Ashgoods and I'd agreed to drive down to see it on the Saturday (IIRC I'd called Mon or Tue) but had a polite text on Friday night to say someone had come into the showroom that day and put a deposit down and the car was sold.
I remember your posts from the time as the Ashgoods car was my 'old' one - and it was, indeed, a nice one. The funny thing is that I sold it to Ashgoods because I couldn't sell it myself, privately - yet the car had been on offer from me with the safety net of a substantial ongoing Porsche Approved Warranty and a mega-file of history, and at a lower price than Ashgoods ended up advertising it for.

So a moral to add here, to what has been said above, is not to discount privately owned cars from consideration. The car that you can buy with confidence from a dealer you trust was, only a few days earlier, that very same car in the hands of its former owner. And buying privately allows you to form an opinion about the previous owner, and the way in which he (or she) is likely to have looked after the car. So, condition, mileage and provenance are the priorities (and, as the available cars get older, these factors should take precedence over finding the perfect spec, as Darren has suggested) - but don't overlook the possibilities that arise from a carefully considered private sale and purchase.

James

Edited by short-shift on Monday 11th February 19:36
I brought mine from porsche Bristol. As I had a 997.1 carrera S Cab they gave me the best offer compared to independants. I got mine in November 2012 and a few days before a brought it they knocked of 5k because they were not selling,come March 2013 it all changed ,prices went up.

Digga

26,076 posts

221 months

Tuesday 12th February
quotequote all
short-shift said:
I remember your posts from the time as the Ashgoods car was my 'old' one - and it was, indeed, a nice one. The funny thing is that I sold it to Ashgoods because I couldn't sell it myself, privately - yet the car had been on offer from me with the safety net of a substantial ongoing Porsche Approved Warranty and a mega-file of history, and at a lower price than Ashgoods ended up advertising it for.
I bet it was a nice car, but I never got to see it. hehe

Certainly looked good and IIRC, Ashgood's did not have it for long, did they?

At the time, 911V had a beautiful Atlas Grey 997.2 GT3 in, but it was over £100k and ruled it out for me in terms of the cost of track day insurance at the 'Ring (or Spa for that matter).

GT4RS

1,411 posts

135 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Interesting 997.2 gt3 has popped up on the for sales section. Low miles CS, interesting asking price considering the red low miles CS has been up for sale for over a year at 119k and this ones a higher price.

My guess is this has been put up sale on SOR for the client hence the high price. This is a perfect example of a car if you bought at this level couldn’t use as the second you put 10k on the clock it would have a trade value of around 90k. 10k miles would cost you 35k and that’s before you take in consideration of the falling market.

Limited market for a car like this now and would only be bought by a collector to be locked away for 25 years.
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RC1

3,547 posts

157 months

Wednesday 13th February
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i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Digga

26,076 posts

221 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
RC1 said:
i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
See my post above. The 'just over £100k' is tricky territory for a car that's very likely going to be used on track, because of the cost of insuring European track days.

Is it worth over £100k compared to either cheaper 997.1 examples, or similarly priced 991.1 GT3s? Yes. IMHO. Lovely car, but...

GT4RS

1,411 posts

135 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
RC1 said:
i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
IMO that’s how it should be priced retail, not privately. It’s been up for sale twice already, was originally up a month ago or so ago for about 10k more.

It would needs to be original paint, full OPC history, clear rev range report and a extended transferable Porsche warranty to break to 100k privately IMO.

I think we are just starting to see the investor owners who are getting itchy feed trying to sell up.

LaurasOtherHalf

14,315 posts

134 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
GT4RS said:
RC1 said:
i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
IMO that’s how it should be priced retail, not privately. It’s been up for sale twice already, was originally up a month ago or so ago for about 10k more.

It would needs to be original paint, full OPC history, clear rev range report and a extended transferable Porsche warranty to break to 100k privately IMO.

I think we are just starting to see the investor owners who are getting itchy feed trying to sell up.
I don't doubt that itchy feet are beginning to creep into the market but I still can't see things dropping to a level that makes sense to me. No one wants to be the one left sitting on the loss though do they?

In a perverse way I've considered actively searching out an uninvestable car to actually use. If not a CATD then something that has had a shunt or is starship mileage that can just be punted around the track and enjoyed.

Driving the 997.1RS I just can't shake the nagging doubt about just how much the damn thing is worth (not my car I hasten to add-best friend's).

Digga

26,076 posts

221 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Driving the 997.1RS I just can't shake the nagging doubt about just how much the damn thing is worth...
Quite. It is an issue I had to have a quiet word with myself about to reinforce the reality that:

  • Buying a car, or being able to pay for it/service debt is one thing
  • Running it is another
  • Running it and using it as intended (or as hard as you want to) is something altogether different

GT4RS

1,411 posts

135 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
GT4RS said:
RC1 said:
i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
IMO that’s how it should be priced retail, not privately. It’s been up for sale twice already, was originally up a month ago or so ago for about 10k more.

It would needs to be original paint, full OPC history, clear rev range report and a extended transferable Porsche warranty to break to 100k privately IMO.

I think we are just starting to see the investor owners who are getting itchy feed trying to sell up.
I don't doubt that itchy feet are beginning to creep into the market but I still can't see things dropping to a level that makes sense to me. No one wants to be the one left sitting on the loss though do they?

In a perverse way I've considered actively searching out an uninvestable car to actually use. If not a CATD then something that has had a shunt or is starship mileage that can just be punted around the track and enjoyed.

Driving the 997.1RS I just can't shake the nagging doubt about just how much the damn thing is worth (not my car I hasten to add-best friend's).
I have to agree with you in regards to where the market is going to drop to. Will it drop enough to get enthusiast buyers back in? I guess only time will tell. I think the problem we are now going to be faced with is a lot of buyers bought gt cars to beat depreciation and make a quick profit, many of these cars are still low miles and will demand a premium over a car with slightly more miles. The problem is the enthusiast buyer will more than likely want to drive there new purchase and will not be looking at it as an soley as an investment, so will they want to really pay a crazy premium for a car with 10k miles less knowing it going to depreciate no matter if they drive it or not.

Here’s a couple of examples of why the market isn’t great at the moment.

991.1 gt3 with 15k can now be bought retail for 100k or less, investor owners are still trying to sell 991.1 gt3 cars with 3k in the clock for over £130k. If you bought the 3k car used it for a year say 7k miles and then traded it you are going loose 40k.

991.1 gt3 rs with 8k on the clock can be bought retail for £150k yet some investor buyers are still trying to get close to 200k for a sub 1000 mile car. Buy the low mile car and do 7k miles and trade it back in and you will loose 60k.

997.2 gt3 cs recently sold at a OPC fit 95k with I think 20k something miles, yet one with 6k miles has just come up for 125k, buy and drive the 6k car for 10k and you will loose around £35k to 40k and remember all the figures above have been based on retail prices now, which they are struggling to sell at Add a further market correction and like you say buy wrong and you could be sitting in a big loss.

It would appear the investor owners now looking or trying to sell up could of left it to late and might need to think hard about realistic asking prices to enable them to sell their investment.


Digga

26,076 posts

221 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
GT4RS said:
997.2 gt3 cs recently sold at a OPC fit 95k with I think 20k something miles...
Yes, I too remember seeing that and thinking:
  1. that's a lot of GT3 for the money, and
  2. it will not hang around long at that price
Personally, I think that deal was exceptional, but then I have no real knowledge of where prices may, or may not go to.

braddo

6,181 posts

126 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
GT4RS said:
Here’s a couple of examples of why the market isn’t great at the moment.

991.1 gt3 with 15k can now be bought retail for 100k or less, investor owners are still trying to sell 991.1 gt3 cars with 3k in the clock for over £130k. If you bought the 3k car used it for a year say 7k miles and then traded it you are going loose 40k.

991.1 gt3 rs with 8k on the clock can be bought retail for £150k yet some investor buyers are still trying to get close to 200k for a sub 1000 mile car. Buy the low mile car and do 7k miles and trade it back in and you will loose 60k.

997.2 gt3 cs recently sold at a OPC fit 95k with I think 20k something miles, yet one with 6k miles has just come up for 125k, buy and drive the 6k car for 10k and you will loose around £35k to 40k
I expect buyers of those really low miles cars will lose £15-20k in buy/sell spread as soon as they sign the purchase contract.

Note that I didn't say "drive the car off the forecourt" because some of these cars will just be rolled onto a transporter. laughfrown





Digga

26,076 posts

221 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
braddo said:
Note that I didn't say "drive the car off the forecourt" because some of these cars will just be rolled onto a transporter. laughfrown
If that. Some dealers will happily store the car for you too. wink

GT4RS

1,411 posts

135 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
Digga said:
GT4RS said:
997.2 gt3 cs recently sold at a OPC fit 95k with I think 20k something miles...
Yes, I too remember seeing that and thinking:
  1. that's a lot of GT3 for the money, and
  2. it will not hang around long at that price
Personally, I think that deal was exceptional, but then I have no real knowledge of where prices may, or may not go to.
The car was owned but the OPC and priced correctly in my opinion, they clearly bought it right to allow them to sell it right. I think the the only thing holding prices up at the moment is SOR prices as they are no risk to the dealers, fill there showroom with lovely fancy stock and the owners taking the full risk if and when the market drops.

The 997.2 gt3 cs at 95k must of been bought by someone who wanted to use it imo.

evodarren

309 posts

72 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
It will be nice to see more on the road or track being used.
They do seem quite rare on the road. Obviously different at track days or Porsche meets.

I brought mine 61/2 years ago expecting to loose money. So my intention was to drive it, and my intention is still to drive it.
I really can t see the point of owning a great piece of machinery and just looking at it. Buy a painting, they are painted to be looked at and admired.

GT4RS

1,411 posts

135 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Here’s another new SOR car, why do independents price themselves higher than an OPC cars or is the price again being driven by the owner trying to maximise investments returns.

GT4RS

1,411 posts

135 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
evodarren said:
It will be nice to see more on the road or track being used.
They do seem quite rare on the road. Obviously different at track days or Porsche meets.

I brought mine 61/2 years ago expecting to loose money. So my intention was to drive it, and my intention is still to drive it.
I really can t see the point of owning a great piece of machinery and just looking at it. Buy a painting, they are painted to be looked at and admired.
I personally think it will be sometime before we start seeing more and more Porsche gt cars used on the road. Most current investor owners are afraid to use them due to adding mileage!

n12maser

262 posts

30 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
GT4RS said:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Here’s another new SOR car, why do independents price themselves higher than an OPC cars or is the price again being driven by the owner trying to maximise investments returns.
totally unrealistic price for a comfort spec

GT4RS

1,411 posts

135 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
n12maser said:
GT4RS said:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Here’s another new SOR car, why do independents price themselves higher than an OPC cars or is the price again being driven by the owner trying to maximise investments returns.
totally unrealistic price for a comfort spec
Hi n12maser, I agree. Out of interest what do you think this should retail at fully prepared with a OPC warranty?