997.1 GT3 - 911 Virgin

[Digga]

short-shift said:

I remember your posts from the time as the Ashgoods car was my 'old' one - and it was, indeed, a nice one. The funny thing is that I sold it to Ashgoods because I couldn't sell it myself, privately - yet the car had been on offer from me with the safety net of a substantial ongoing Porsche Approved Warranty and a mega-file of history, and at a lower price than Ashgoods ended up advertising it for.

I bet it was a nice car, but I never got to see it.

Certainly looked good and IIRC, Ashgood's did not have it for long, did they?

At the time, 911V had a beautiful Atlas Grey 997.2 GT3 in, but it was over £100k and ruled it out for me in terms of the cost of track day insurance at the 'Ring (or Spa for that matter).

[GT4RS]

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Interesting 997.2 gt3 has popped up on the for sales section. Low miles CS, interesting asking price considering the red low miles CS has been up for sale for over a year at 119k and this ones a higher price.

My guess is this has been put up sale on SOR for the client hence the high price. This is a perfect example of a car if you bought at this level couldn’t use as the second you put 10k on the clock it would have a trade value of around 90k. 10k miles would cost you 35k and that’s before you take in consideration of the falling market.

Limited market for a car like this now and would only be bought by a collector to be locked away for 25 years.

[RC1]

i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

[Digga]

RC1 said:

i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

See my post above. The 'just over £100k' is tricky territory for a car that's very likely going to be used on track, because of the cost of insuring European track days.

Is it worth over £100k compared to either cheaper 997.1 examples, or similarly priced 991.1 GT3s? Yes. IMHO. Lovely car, but...

[GT4RS]

RC1 said:

i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

IMO that’s how it should be priced retail, not privately. It’s been up for sale twice already, was originally up a month ago or so ago for about 10k more.

It would needs to be original paint, full OPC history, clear rev range report and a extended transferable Porsche warranty to break to 100k privately IMO.

I think we are just starting to see the investor owners who are getting itchy feed trying to sell up.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

GT4RS said:

RC1 said:

i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

IMO that’s how it should be priced retail, not privately. It’s been up for sale twice already, was originally up a month ago or so ago for about 10k more.

It would needs to be original paint, full OPC history, clear rev range report and a extended transferable Porsche warranty to break to 100k privately IMO.

I think we are just starting to see the investor owners who are getting itchy feed trying to sell up.

I don't doubt that itchy feet are beginning to creep into the market but I still can't see things dropping to a level that makes sense to me. No one wants to be the one left sitting on the loss though do they?

In a perverse way I've considered actively searching out an uninvestable car to actually use. If not a CATD then something that has had a shunt or is starship mileage that can just be punted around the track and enjoyed.

Driving the 997.1RS I just can't shake the nagging doubt about just how much the damn thing is worth (not my car I hasten to add-best friend's).

[Digga]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Driving the 997.1RS I just can't shake the nagging doubt about just how much the damn thing is worth...

Quite. It is an issue I had to have a quiet word with myself about to reinforce the reality that:

• Buying a car, or being able to pay for it/service debt is one thing
• Running it is another
• Running it and using it as intended (or as hard as you want to) is something altogether different

[GT4RS]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

GT4RS said:

RC1 said:

i reckon this will do the job if you can live without ceramics... has lift

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

IMO that’s how it should be priced retail, not privately. It’s been up for sale twice already, was originally up a month ago or so ago for about 10k more.

It would needs to be original paint, full OPC history, clear rev range report and a extended transferable Porsche warranty to break to 100k privately IMO.

I think we are just starting to see the investor owners who are getting itchy feed trying to sell up.

I don't doubt that itchy feet are beginning to creep into the market but I still can't see things dropping to a level that makes sense to me. No one wants to be the one left sitting on the loss though do they?

In a perverse way I've considered actively searching out an uninvestable car to actually use. If not a CATD then something that has had a shunt or is starship mileage that can just be punted around the track and enjoyed.

Driving the 997.1RS I just can't shake the nagging doubt about just how much the damn thing is worth (not my car I hasten to add-best friend's).

I have to agree with you in regards to where the market is going to drop to. Will it drop enough to get enthusiast buyers back in? I guess only time will tell. I think the problem we are now going to be faced with is a lot of buyers bought gt cars to beat depreciation and make a quick profit, many of these cars are still low miles and will demand a premium over a car with slightly more miles. The problem is the enthusiast buyer will more than likely want to drive there new purchase and will not be looking at it as an soley as an investment, so will they want to really pay a crazy premium for a car with 10k miles less knowing it going to depreciate no matter if they drive it or not.

Here’s a couple of examples of why the market isn’t great at the moment.

991.1 gt3 with 15k can now be bought retail for 100k or less, investor owners are still trying to sell 991.1 gt3 cars with 3k in the clock for over £130k. If you bought the 3k car used it for a year say 7k miles and then traded it you are going loose 40k.

991.1 gt3 rs with 8k on the clock can be bought retail for £150k yet some investor buyers are still trying to get close to 200k for a sub 1000 mile car. Buy the low mile car and do 7k miles and trade it back in and you will loose 60k.

997.2 gt3 cs recently sold at a OPC fit 95k with I think 20k something miles, yet one with 6k miles has just come up for 125k, buy and drive the 6k car for 10k and you will loose around £35k to 40k and remember all the figures above have been based on retail prices now, which they are struggling to sell at Add a further market correction and like you say buy wrong and you could be sitting in a big loss.

It would appear the investor owners now looking or trying to sell up could of left it to late and might need to think hard about realistic asking prices to enable them to sell their investment.

[Digga]

GT4RS said:

997.2 gt3 cs recently sold at a OPC fit 95k with I think 20k something miles...

Yes, I too remember seeing that and thinking:

1. that's a lot of GT3 for the money, and
2. it will not hang around long at that price

Personally, I think that deal was exceptional, but then I have no real knowledge of where prices may, or may not go to.

[braddo]

GT4RS said:

Here’s a couple of examples of why the market isn’t great at the moment.

991.1 gt3 with 15k can now be bought retail for 100k or less, investor owners are still trying to sell 991.1 gt3 cars with 3k in the clock for over £130k. If you bought the 3k car used it for a year say 7k miles and then traded it you are going loose 40k.

991.1 gt3 rs with 8k on the clock can be bought retail for £150k yet some investor buyers are still trying to get close to 200k for a sub 1000 mile car. Buy the low mile car and do 7k miles and trade it back in and you will loose 60k.

997.2 gt3 cs recently sold at a OPC fit 95k with I think 20k something miles, yet one with 6k miles has just come up for 125k, buy and drive the 6k car for 10k and you will loose around £35k to 40k

I expect buyers of those really low miles cars will lose £15-20k in buy/sell spread as soon as they sign the purchase contract.

Note that I didn't say "drive the car off the forecourt" because some of these cars will just be rolled onto a transporter.

[Digga]

braddo said:

Note that I didn't say "drive the car off the forecourt" because some of these cars will just be rolled onto a transporter.

If that. Some dealers will happily store the car for you too.

[GT4RS]

Digga said:

GT4RS said:

997.2 gt3 cs recently sold at a OPC fit 95k with I think 20k something miles...

Yes, I too remember seeing that and thinking:

1. that's a lot of GT3 for the money, and
2. it will not hang around long at that price

Personally, I think that deal was exceptional, but then I have no real knowledge of where prices may, or may not go to.

The car was owned but the OPC and priced correctly in my opinion, they clearly bought it right to allow them to sell it right. I think the the only thing holding prices up at the moment is SOR prices as they are no risk to the dealers, fill there showroom with lovely fancy stock and the owners taking the full risk if and when the market drops.

The 997.2 gt3 cs at 95k must of been bought by someone who wanted to use it imo.

[evodarren]

It will be nice to see more on the road or track being used.
They do seem quite rare on the road. Obviously different at track days or Porsche meets.

I brought mine 61/2 years ago expecting to loose money. So my intention was to drive it, and my intention is still to drive it.
I really can t see the point of owning a great piece of machinery and just looking at it. Buy a painting, they are painted to be looked at and admired.

[GT4RS]

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Here’s another new SOR car, why do independents price themselves higher than an OPC cars or is the price again being driven by the owner trying to maximise investments returns.

[GT4RS]

evodarren said:

It will be nice to see more on the road or track being used.
They do seem quite rare on the road. Obviously different at track days or Porsche meets.

I brought mine 61/2 years ago expecting to loose money. So my intention was to drive it, and my intention is still to drive it.
I really can t see the point of owning a great piece of machinery and just looking at it. Buy a painting, they are painted to be looked at and admired.

I personally think it will be sometime before we start seeing more and more Porsche gt cars used on the road. Most current investor owners are afraid to use them due to adding mileage!

[n12maser]

GT4RS said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Here’s another new SOR car, why do independents price themselves higher than an OPC cars or is the price again being driven by the owner trying to maximise investments returns.

totally unrealistic price for a comfort spec

[GT4RS]

n12maser said:

GT4RS said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Here’s another new SOR car, why do independents price themselves higher than an OPC cars or is the price again being driven by the owner trying to maximise investments returns.

totally unrealistic price for a comfort spec

Hi n12maser, I agree. Out of interest what do you think this should retail at fully prepared with a OPC warranty?

[RC1]

something closer to this which still has some fat in... i drove it and its very nice if you dont mind sofa version and poverty spec

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

[n12maser]

£79,999

[GT4RS]

RC1 said:

something closer to this which still has some fat in... i drove it and its very nice if you dont mind sofa version and poverty spec

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

That silver ones been for sale forever! If that can’t sell at an OPC with a two year warranty the white ones go no hope.

Goes to show the market even values the silver one to high.

RC1 did you make an offer on the silver one?

Edited by GT4RS on Wednesday 13th February 19:42