997.1 GT3 - 911 Virgin

[Kettmark]

The best thing all these owners/ chancers can do with their SOR GT3's is sit on them for the next 10 years in the hope that the values will increase again due to natural supply/ demand.
If they were all withdrawn from sale overnight & dry stored for the next decade, they may recoup their money from peak market prices of 2/3 years back.
Cars with dedicated sellers would then sell at market governed figures, not over inflated as is currently the case.

As I've said previously, if the black 911 Virgin (OP car) and the Ashgoods cars (both clean looking & owned by proper retailers [not SOR]) are not selling, it tells you all you need to know of the current 'crisis' in the top end specialist vehicle market.

These cars are currently 'valued' at about what they were new over 10 years ago. Madness.

[Digga]

Porsche911R said:

JZM had 2 997.2 GT for well over 12 months...

The white ones? Tidy enough cars, but both are comfort spec.

The trouble is, who's paying £100k to buy a used, 5 year old sports car to run as a daily? No one, really. People who are in the market for GT3's, in general, want them to use them, so the specs that sells reflect this.

[n12maser]

Sounds like for stock to shift, the..

996.2 gt3s need to correct to ~£55k

997.1 gt3s need to correct to £65k comfort, £70-75k clubbie.

997.2 gt3 needs to correct to £80k comfort, £85k to £90k clubbie.

Then 991.1 GT3 slots in above. I personally think the prices need to soften not just to reflect the general economy and used car market, but to properly reflect the fact that Porsche came back to the table with a manual GT3 after round 1 of the 991 GT3 was PDK only. If they had still stuck with PDK only new GT3s then I think the higher prices we're seeing would be more justified.

[Porsche911R]

Digga said:

he white ones? Tidy enough cars, but both are comfort spec.

The trouble is, who's paying £100k to buy a used, 5 year old sports car to run as a daily? No one, really. People who are in the market for GT3's, in general, want them to use them, so the specs that sells reflect this.

yes, very over priced.

need to be £89k for comfort spec at least. not £109k lol

CS I guess to sell atm need to be £95k max

I don't get why JZM and Hexagon keep cars for 18 months unsold !

[Digga]

n12maser said:

Sounds like for stock to shift, the..

996.2 gt3s need to correct to ~£55k

997.1 gt3s need to correct to £65k comfort, £70-75k clubbie.

997.2 gt3 needs to correct to £80k comfort, £85k to £90k clubbie.

Then 991.1 GT3 slots in above. I personally think the prices need to soften not just to reflect the general economy and used car market, but to properly reflect the fact that Porsche came back to the table with a manual GT3 after round 1 of the 991 GT3 was PDK only. If they had still stuck with PDK only new GT3s then I think the higher prices we're seeing would be more justified.

To counter:

1. If Brexit is not a disaster, consumer will come back out of the woodwork
2. They ain't building NA sports cars like the used to
3. Interest rates are not going up soon
4. QE back on the table in the Eurozone, I reckon

Will be interesting to see what's what in the summer.

[Dammit]

And Brexit is currently looking like it’s going to be a huge success for everyone in the UK, especially those working in car manufacturing.

[Porsche911R]

n12maser said:

Sounds like for stock to shift, the..

996.2 gt3s need to correct to ~£55k

997.1 gt3s need to correct to £65k comfort, £70-75k clubbie.

997.2 gt3 needs to correct to £80k comfort, £85k to £90k clubbie.

Then 991.1 GT3 slots in above. I personally think the prices need to soften not just to reflect the general economy and used car market, but to properly reflect the fact that Porsche came back to the table with a manual GT3 after round 1 of the 991 GT3 was PDK only. If they had still stuck with PDK only new GT3s then I think the higher prices we're seeing would be more justified.

a bit low:

imo

996.2 gt3s need to correct to ~these are selling ok at low 60's as is, just not the £79k some are trying for.

997.1 gt3s need to correct to £65k comfort, £70-75k clubbie. again £5k more for both.

997.2 gt3 needs to correct to £80k comfort, £85k to £90k clubbie. £86k and £95k


996 seem to be a bargain if you can call a car which was £35k a few years back now £65k a bargain, but vs RS cars the 996 is under values, the rest are very over valued vs the RS cars.

It's a slow market but that's due to the GT4 and the 991.2 cars adding another 1200 cars to the market with warranty and new.

996 seem the drivers choice car , the 997's are a bit in no mans land at current values and the one needing the biggest correction.
all comfort spec cars in 2nd hand GT market are lemons ! that's been clear for 15 years.

So cars need to be at least £8k cheaper in comfort vs normal. The real CS spec cars can hold a bit more value over a car with buckets and a tech equipment cage punted as CS, but are NOT CS cars !!! esp in MK1 GT3 cases as a real CS 1999 car is a very rare thing. Most listed as CS are NOT CS !

[GT4RS]

I have to agree with some of the comments above. Like others have said certain cars clearly aren’t selling and this can be proven by the length of time these cars have sat unsold in dealers showrooms. It quite comical that the joke has become it free storage!

IMO for cars to start moving prices need to come down slightly.

Low milage / correctly prep cars with a warranty retailed need to look more in line with this.

997.1 gt3 Komfort spec £65k
997.1 gt3 CS £70k
997.2 gt3 Komfort £75k
997.2 gt3 CS £85k
991.1 gt3 Komfort £90k
991.1 gt3 cs £100k

You will properly find the numbers I mention above are just above what people are getting bid trade PX at the moment.

[Porsche911R]

GT4RS said:

I have to agree with some of the comments above. Like others have said certain cars clearly aren’t selling and this can be proven by the length of time these cars have sat unsold in dealers showrooms. It quite comical that the joke has become it free storage!

IMO for cars to start moving prices need to come down slightly.

Low milage / correctly prep cars with a warranty retailed need to look more in line with this.

997.2 gt3 CS £85k

wish full :-) where do I sign up for one.

£95k will see these selling imo.

[GT4RS]

Porsche911R said:

GT4RS said:

I have to agree with some of the comments above. Like others have said certain cars clearly aren’t selling and this can be proven by the length of time these cars have sat unsold in dealers showrooms. It quite comical that the joke has become it free storage!

IMO for cars to start moving prices need to come down slightly.

Low milage / correctly prep cars with a warranty retailed need to look more in line with this.

997.2 gt3 CS £85k

wish full :-) where do I sign up for one.

£95k will see these selling imo.

Maybe they will, but remember once the whole market corrects others cars will look more attractive as well and a 997.2 gt3 won’t look such a bargain at 95k. The whole market is poor on sales due to toppy prices and only the very very best high end cars are selling atm.

If you think back when a Ferrari 360 could be bought for 50k, the 12c Mclaren is heading that way already and is looking like it’s going to end up bottoming out in the low 60k.

Only this week was I offered a 2016 570s with sub 10k miles for 90k, when I asked why the response back I got was no dealer will bid on it!

The real test will be when we all walk into our preferred dealers and ask them to bid on our cars as we would like to sell.

[RC1]

GT4RS said:

I have to agree with some of the comments above. Like others have said certain cars clearly aren’t selling and this can be proven by the length of time these cars have sat unsold in dealers showrooms. It quite comical that the joke has become it free storage!

IMO for cars to start moving prices need to come down slightly.

Low milage / correctly prep cars with a warranty retailed need to look more in line with this.

997.1 gt3 Komfort spec £65k
997.1 gt3 CS £70k
997.2 gt3 Komfort £75k
997.2 gt3 CS £85k
991.1 gt3 Komfort £90k
991.1 gt3 cs £100k

You will properly find the numbers I mention above are just above what people are getting bid trade PX at the moment.

ive called fair value at 65k for sofa and 75k for cs for the 7.1 for ages and being very actively in the market, i am glad to say that it looks like the divide between me and the motivated seller (inc opcs) is getting much narrower

i know folks hate these value threads but its been quite a ride for the gt cars so i can appreciate that for some its a tiresome topic esp if they bought at the top of the market

i didnt show my hand on the glasgow car but it really was very nice and the quality of prep was superb... even the light clusters looked new and they really inspire confidence in the purchase

the reason i am holding back is that i have reluctantly come to accept that i need to have the buckets and ceramics but factory fitted not retrofitted... this means that other than cs's, im not spoilt for choice

[Porsche911R]

GT4RS said:

Maybe they will, but remember once the whole market corrects others cars will look more attractive as well and a 997.2 gt3 won’t look such a bargain at 95k. The whole market is poor on sales due to toppy prices and only the very very best high end cars are selling atm.

If you think back when a Ferrari 360 could be bought for 50k, the 12c Mclaren is heading that way already and is looking like it’s going to end up bottoming out in the low 60k.

Only this week was I offered a 2016 570s with sub 10k miles for 90k, when I asked why the response back I got was no dealer will bid on it!

The real test will be when we all walk into our preferred dealers and ask them to bid on our cars as we would like to sell.

Macca make too many cars all the same there must be 200 for sale ! a new one is better than the old one .

991.1 GT3 will drop below 997.2 GT3 imo. this won't happen with Macca's they just drop in line with each other.

also a £90k 570S is very cheap as the cheapest is £110k really.

the issue is warranty IS needed and it's bloody expensive !!! I never warranty my Porkers.

investors are shedding cars, that's clear to see, but I am a car buyer and in the last few weeks 5 or 6 cars I have had an interest in have sold.

try and find me a sub 30k miles 997.2 C2S for sale, been looking for 6 months , only been one nice one and that was £50k and sold,I kick myself for not buying it.

997.2 GT3 are not going to drop £30k any time soon, was my point.

£85k I would buy one tomorrow as would a load of GT4 owners I would say.

atm a £60k 996 GT3 as long as it's got a nice list of replacement parts is the best value GT car for sure.

[Porsche911R]

RC1 said:

ive called fair value at 65k for sofa and 75k for cs for the 7.1 for ages and being very actively in the market, i am glad to say that it looks like the divide between me and the motivated seller (inc opcs) is getting much narrower

i know folks hate these value threads but its been quite a ride for the gt cars so i can appreciate that for some its a tiresome topic esp if they bought at the top of the market

i didnt show my hand on the glasgow car but it really was very nice and the quality of prep was superb... even the light clusters looked new and they really inspire confidence in the purchase

the reason i am holding back is that i have reluctantly come to accept that i need to have the buckets and ceramics but factory fitted not retrofitted... this means that other than cs's, im not spoilt for choice

I would rather have a set of new buckets in a 2010 car and screw PCCB on older cars, the wear rates are too high.

£8k gets you a set of oem seats, and a comfort spec car is nicer inside normally, so grab a bargain comfort and spend £8k on buckets.
issue is comfort cars are laughable prices ! hence stuck not sold.

[BrotherMouzone]

SignalGruen said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I haven’t seen it for years obviously but I’d be interested to, I often wonder what was done to it as it’s price increases

Funnily enough I was also speaking to the owner circa 2010 when it was up in Scotland - was priced around £35k I think. Conversed with the owner via email but then he decided to keep it and withdrew it from sale. If you're interested, assuming it hasn't changed hands since last June, I can put you in touch with someone who knows the owner.

That’s interesting and thanks LaurasOtherHalf for the reg no.

Looks like the car has been in storage (with Autostore / MCP who I believe are the same people and/or partners??) since 2013 according MOT history and other old threads here / 911uk, and only 11k miles since you chaps ‘saw’ it in 2010.

I guess the current owner doesn’t really need to sell but has put it on the market whilst in storage.

[GT4RS]

RC1 said:

GT4RS said:

I have to agree with some of the comments above. Like others have said certain cars clearly aren’t selling and this can be proven by the length of time these cars have sat unsold in dealers showrooms. It quite comical that the joke has become it free storage!

IMO for cars to start moving prices need to come down slightly.

Low milage / correctly prep cars with a warranty retailed need to look more in line with this.

997.1 gt3 Komfort spec £65k
997.1 gt3 CS £70k
997.2 gt3 Komfort £75k
997.2 gt3 CS £85k
991.1 gt3 Komfort £90k
991.1 gt3 cs £100k

You will properly find the numbers I mention above are just above what people are getting bid trade PX at the moment.

ive called fair value at 65k for sofa and 75k for cs for the 7.1 for ages and being very actively in the market, i am glad to say that it looks like the divide between me and the motivated seller (inc opcs) is getting much narrower

i know folks hate these value threads but its been quite a ride for the gt cars so i can appreciate that for some its a tiresome topic esp if they bought at the top of the market

i didnt show my hand on the glasgow car but it really was very nice and the quality of prep was superb... even the light clusters looked new and they really inspire confidence in the purchase

the reason i am holding back is that i have reluctantly come to accept that i need to have the buckets and ceramics but factory fitted not retrofitted... this means that other than cs's, im not spoilt for choice

Do you plan to drive the car on the road or is it going to be mainly used for track work?

I opted for 18 way seats in my daily 991.2 and all I can say is they are very comfy when set up right.

[GT4RS]

Porsche911R said:

GT4RS said:

Maybe they will, but remember once the whole market corrects others cars will look more attractive as well and a 997.2 gt3 won’t look such a bargain at 95k. The whole market is poor on sales due to toppy prices and only the very very best high end cars are selling atm.

If you think back when a Ferrari 360 could be bought for 50k, the 12c Mclaren is heading that way already and is looking like it’s going to end up bottoming out in the low 60k.

Only this week was I offered a 2016 570s with sub 10k miles for 90k, when I asked why the response back I got was no dealer will bid on it!

The real test will be when we all walk into our preferred dealers and ask them to bid on our cars as we would like to sell.

Macca make too many cars all the same there must be 200 for sale ! a new one is better than the old one .

991.1 GT3 will drop below 997.2 GT3 imo. this won't happen with Macca's they just drop in line with each other.

also a £90k 570S is very cheap as the cheapest is £110k really.

the issue is warranty IS needed and it's bloody expensive !!! I never warranty my Porkers.

investors are shedding cars, that's clear to see, but I am a car buyer and in the last few weeks 5 or 6 cars I have had an interest in have sold.

try and find me a sub 30k miles 997.2 C2S for sale, been looking for 6 months , only been one nice one and that was £50k and sold,I kick myself for not buying it.

997.2 GT3 are not going to drop £30k any time soon, was my point.

£85k I would buy one tomorrow as would a load of GT4 owners I would say.

atm a £60k 996 GT3 as long as it's got a nice list of replacement parts is the best value GT car for sure.

I thought the Mclaren looked cheap, but by the time you get it inspected / serviced / detailed and add a warranty you are getting back up close to retail.

What makes you think the 991.1 gt3 will drop below the 997.2 gt3? I can’t see it to be honest.

You say investors are shredding cars but cars don’t appear to be selling at current levels, are dealers now trying to maximise profits and bidding low and still trying to sell high?

A good benchmark will be if the red private 997.2 gt3 sells, it’s come down buy around 10k already.

[GT4RS]

RC1 said:

GT4RS said:

I have to agree with some of the comments above. Like others have said certain cars clearly aren’t selling and this can be proven by the length of time these cars have sat unsold in dealers showrooms. It quite comical that the joke has become it free storage!

IMO for cars to start moving prices need to come down slightly.

Low milage / correctly prep cars with a warranty retailed need to look more in line with this.

997.1 gt3 Komfort spec £65k
997.1 gt3 CS £70k
997.2 gt3 Komfort £75k
997.2 gt3 CS £85k
991.1 gt3 Komfort £90k
991.1 gt3 cs £100k

You will properly find the numbers I mention above are just above what people are getting bid trade PX at the moment.

ive called fair value at 65k for sofa and 75k for cs for the 7.1 for ages and being very actively in the market, i am glad to say that it looks like the divide between me and the motivated seller (inc opcs) is getting much narrower

i know folks hate these value threads but its been quite a ride for the gt cars so i can appreciate that for some its a tiresome topic esp if they bought at the top of the market

i didnt show my hand on the glasgow car but it really was very nice and the quality of prep was superb... even the light clusters looked new and they really inspire confidence in the purchase

the reason i am holding back is that i have reluctantly come to accept that i need to have the buckets and ceramics but factory fitted not retrofitted... this means that other than cs's, im not spoilt for choice

Do you plan to drive the car on the road or is it going to be mainly used for track work?

I opted for 18 way seats in my daily 991.2 and all I can say is they are very comfy when set up right.

[RC1]

GT4RS said:

Do you plan to drive the car on the road or is it going to be mainly used for track work?

I opted for 18 way seats in my daily 991.2 and all I can say is they are very comfy when set up right.

mainly road and sometimes track...

i did have a good fiddle with the adaptives in the glasgow car and they were good but the buckets make me feel a little bit more special.

practicalities aside, i guess im drawn to the cs from a slightly purist stance ie its a more direct expression of the gt ethos at least for me and my 'athletic' build that finds those buckets a very reassuring place to be!

[DjSki]

RC1 said:

mainly road and sometimes track...

i did have a good fiddle with the adaptives in the glasgow car and they were good but the buckets make me feel a little bit more special.

practicalities aside, i guess im drawn to the cs from a slightly purist stance ie its a more direct expression of the gt ethos at least for me and my 'athletic' build that finds those buckets a very reassuring place to be!

What do you think would be a fair bid for the Glasgow car? I'm a big fan of GT Silver.

I agree that a CS car is the one to have, but the difference in price is unlikely to move down compared to a CS, will always be there.... and as people say a pair of pole positions isn't a lot of money and might almost be cooler......and I don't need a cage...just looks cool unless you are hammering around the Nurburgring at sub 8min pace....which I wont be.

[GT4RS]

DjSki said:

RC1 said:

mainly road and sometimes track...

i did have a good fiddle with the adaptives in the glasgow car and they were good but the buckets make me feel a little bit more special.

practicalities aside, i guess im drawn to the cs from a slightly purist stance ie its a more direct expression of the gt ethos at least for me and my 'athletic' build that finds those buckets a very reassuring place to be!

What do you think would be a fair bid for the Glasgow car? I'm a big fan of GT Silver.

I agree that a CS car is the one to have, but the difference in price is unlikely to move down compared to a CS, will always be there.... and as people say a pair of pole positions isn't a lot of money and might almost be cooler......and I don't need a cage...just looks cool unless you are hammering around the Nurburgring at sub 8min pace....which I wont be.

You will never get a honest answer as you have owners talking prices up and buyers talking them down. The only question you need to ask yourself is what would be the maximum you are comfortable offering for the car, it’s been up some time and quite an unusual specification.

Clearly very little interest at its current price point, you can always make an offer and walk away if the numbers don’t add up for you.