Brexit...GT cars....Don't Worry
Discussion
Steve Rance said:
Just when you thought that this Motoring forum could sink any lower we get this.
Surely one of the defining elements of anyone’s character is not to be so entrenched in a point of view that they flatly refuse to accept that others may not share it-. Even worse, that they insult and ridicule them for having a different one. Very Thin line between that and becoming a dictator.
Where are the moderators in this place? Or is this kind of rubbish not out of bounds because there are no direct commercial interests.
Where is the spirt in this forum?
Bloody bad form PistonHeads.
Plus one.Surely one of the defining elements of anyone’s character is not to be so entrenched in a point of view that they flatly refuse to accept that others may not share it-. Even worse, that they insult and ridicule them for having a different one. Very Thin line between that and becoming a dictator.
Where are the moderators in this place? Or is this kind of rubbish not out of bounds because there are no direct commercial interests.
Where is the spirt in this forum?
Bloody bad form PistonHeads.
Edited by Steve Rance on Thursday 17th January 19:22
Edited by Corky on Friday 18th January 09:45
Corky said:
Steve Rance said:
Just when you thought that this Motoring forum could sink any lower we get this. its been down for a long time now,if the mods done there job some insesant posters would either be long gone by now or learnt to grow up and reel it in,and not try to make a career out of it.
Surely one of the defining elements of anyone’s character is not to be so entrenched in a point of view that they flatly refuse to accept that others may not share it-. Even worse, that they insult and ridicule them for having a different one. Very Thin line between that and becoming a dictator.
Where are the moderators in this place? Or is this kind of rubbish not out of bounds because there are no direct commercial interests. They dont gaf.
Where is the spirt in this forum? It went some time ago steve.
Bloody bad form PistonHeads. Agree
Plus one.
Surely one of the defining elements of anyone’s character is not to be so entrenched in a point of view that they flatly refuse to accept that others may not share it-. Even worse, that they insult and ridicule them for having a different one. Very Thin line between that and becoming a dictator.
Where are the moderators in this place? Or is this kind of rubbish not out of bounds because there are no direct commercial interests. They dont gaf.
Where is the spirt in this forum? It went some time ago steve.
Bloody bad form PistonHeads. Agree
Plus one.
Edited by Steve Rance on Thursday 17th January 19:22
Politics should be banned on a car forum as there is no place for it,just for ref the pound has got stronger and proffessionals have said any news about no deal will strengthen the pound as its already done.
Yellow491 said:
Some clearly have issues with others opinions,clearly have issues that need addressing with a habit of having to reply to just about every thread going that they then profess to know about,call people stupid or idiots.
Politics should be banned on a car forum as there is no place for it,just for ref the pound has got stronger and proffessionals have said any news about no deal will strengthen the pound as its already done.
Quite frankly its embarrassing to sometimes read these forums..However in all fairness the bad element only comes down to the few..Perhaps its time for the moderators to step in and give one final warning or risk being banned for life. I know someone local to me who was very active on a farming forum who slagged people off with personal insults..I was one as he heavily criticised my stable of nice cars.Politics should be banned on a car forum as there is no place for it,just for ref the pound has got stronger and proffessionals have said any news about no deal will strengthen the pound as its already done.
He has since received a lifetime ban and the forum is a far better place.FWIW i have never been a member of that forum as i prefer to talk about cars..
Corky said:
Steve Rance said:
Just when you thought that this Motoring forum could sink any lower we get this.
Surely one of the defining elements of anyone’s character is not to be so entrenched in a point of view that they flatly refuse to accept that others may not share it-. Even worse, that they insult and ridicule them for having a different one. Very Thin line between that and becoming a dictator.
Where are the moderators in this place? Or is this kind of rubbish not out of bounds because there are no direct commercial interests.
Where is the spirt in this forum?
Bloody bad form PistonHeads.
Plus one.Surely one of the defining elements of anyone’s character is not to be so entrenched in a point of view that they flatly refuse to accept that others may not share it-. Even worse, that they insult and ridicule them for having a different one. Very Thin line between that and becoming a dictator.
Where are the moderators in this place? Or is this kind of rubbish not out of bounds because there are no direct commercial interests.
Where is the spirt in this forum?
Bloody bad form PistonHeads.
Edited by Steve Rance on Thursday 17th January 19:22
Edited by Corky on Friday 18th January 09:45
Let's post some more in car vids and have some more talk about where we've been/what we've worked on in our p-cars.
Cunno said:
FTW said:
I want to hear more about these African Oil Dollars.......
There an amazing investment opportunity, all you need do Is find and African prince that some how your related to who has just past this world and has included you in his will to a sum of £1000000. All you need to do to collect your £1m is send them a mere £10k to cover the taxation and death duty and this needs to paid before the funds can be released.If your interested please pm me your email address and I'll get you started
You need to give them that password that you use for everything on the internet too.
Yellow491 said:
Some clearly have issues with others opinions,clearly have issues that need addressing with a habit of having to reply to just about every thread going that they then profess to know about,call people stupid or idiots.
Politics should be banned on a car forum as there is no place for it,just for ref the pound has got stronger and proffessionals have said any news about no deal will strengthen the pound as its already done.
To be fair, I've gone through this thread from to start to finish and the first mention of the word "idiot" is in this reply: There's been a range of views presented, but I thought the style was friendly and relaxed enough. I've not seen any personal attacks against anyone proposing any view.Politics should be banned on a car forum as there is no place for it,just for ref the pound has got stronger and proffessionals have said any news about no deal will strengthen the pound as its already done.
As this is a motoring forum, can we agree that the attempted "do a Diana" on Prince Philip yesterday is. at the very least, a cynical attempt to boost a feeling of national pride in these divided days? /joke
IknowJoseph said:
Dammit said:
I think a lot of people in this threat will be fine, it's the "just about managing" who are going to be shafted.
Sure, I agree. It's when I see people getting excited about the financial prospects I have to laugh: Very few people will turn a profit from this, and many many more are going to be devastated.The good trick was convincing those struggling people to vote for something that's going to completely screw them over.
The EU spends a lot of money in some really crappy places in the UK; Imagine the surprise when the funding goes and isn't replaced with UK government money.
Dammit said:
Anyway, the majority of PH readers are on the UKIP/EDL end of the spectrum, by way of astonishing ignorance, so this thread isn't going to make any headway in changing anyones mind I suspect.
TX.
You could listen to every economist who isn't Patrick Minford, who all agree it'll be a disaster.
Equally you could listen to Patrick Minford (AKA, Economists For Brexit, interesting use of the plural there) who says a) we'll be fine, but b) it'll mean the end of agriculture and manufacturing in the UK, both of which will have to be managed down as coal mining was.
The payment to the EU is, in overall terms, a drop in the ocean, it's close to meaningless despite the totemic status it currently has.
What's going to hit us hard is the loss of shared standards/regulation, the City with a perpetual 12 month permission to trade, and a loss of any ability to steer the ship to which we are lashed.
Anyone who uses "project fear" without irony has, and there's no way round this, no idea what's going on, and less idea what's about to happen.
Which looks, currently, like a GE.
Equally you could listen to Patrick Minford (AKA, Economists For Brexit, interesting use of the plural there) who says a) we'll be fine, but b) it'll mean the end of agriculture and manufacturing in the UK, both of which will have to be managed down as coal mining was.
The payment to the EU is, in overall terms, a drop in the ocean, it's close to meaningless despite the totemic status it currently has.
What's going to hit us hard is the loss of shared standards/regulation, the City with a perpetual 12 month permission to trade, and a loss of any ability to steer the ship to which we are lashed.
Anyone who uses "project fear" without irony has, and there's no way round this, no idea what's going on, and less idea what's about to happen.
Which looks, currently, like a GE.
^^^^ this is the problem, ours and the world’s problem ultimately. There are no “facts” to draw conclusions from. Just “spin”
In a world before ubiquitous social media “truth” we would rely on pillars of our communities, and credible journalism to offer up a balanced view. Certainly wasn’t perfect but preferable to today’s “likes” obsessed sound biters.
People read stuff and believe it without really considering wether or not it’s actually factual. They then repeat it to others who assume it’s true and on it goes...
I don’t think you can hope to hold back debate on this, car forum or not. It’s such an emotive issue it will surface at the slightest hint of the subject.
In many ways that should be applauded as it does show that what ever side you belong too you care what’s going on.
In a world before ubiquitous social media “truth” we would rely on pillars of our communities, and credible journalism to offer up a balanced view. Certainly wasn’t perfect but preferable to today’s “likes” obsessed sound biters.
People read stuff and believe it without really considering wether or not it’s actually factual. They then repeat it to others who assume it’s true and on it goes...
I don’t think you can hope to hold back debate on this, car forum or not. It’s such an emotive issue it will surface at the slightest hint of the subject.
In many ways that should be applauded as it does show that what ever side you belong too you care what’s going on.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think you have should perhaps read the wider context of the thread, before wading in with such remarks. One poster described Jacob Rees-Mogg as a disaster capitalist, and another suggested that those supporting Brexit only do so because they want to line their own pockets. It is this intellectual cowardice that I was criticising, and that anyone with an interest in honest debate should criticise.I completely agree that Brexit is not really a left/right issue. It isn't really anything to do with lower taxes or freer markets, nor did I suggest it was. Being somewhat of an old school lefty, Jezza is right up my street on some issues. So I'm not sure your inference holds up.
I don't think I really need to explain why holding another vote is anti-democratic and dangerous in the extreme. But I will: if you hold a second vote before you implement the results of the first, why should there not be a third vote? Or a fourth? If we implement the result of a vote, it demonstrates that the democratic process holds power and that votes mean something. If a result is not implemented, there is no reason whatsoever to keep faith in the democratic system.
Xfe said:
Agreed. A lot of people on the left/Remainers can't argue these points logically and so resort to character assassination. Because someone believes that lower taxes and freer markets will lead to prosperity, they must be an evil, selfish capitalist.
And these are the very same people who are right now attempting to subvert British democracy. It's despicable and shameful really.
Just to bring this into context, and to ask a question: what advantage are we going to realise from Brexit, given the current direction of travel?And these are the very same people who are right now attempting to subvert British democracy. It's despicable and shameful really.
Someone noted that the pound rose slightly as a result of the recent vote, believing that to be a sign that the markets want Brexit - but of course, the vote makes Brexit less likely as it reduces choice to the catastrophe of no-deal vs remain, of which remain is more likely, which in turn is arguably why the pound rose, so please show your working rather than making blanket statements that may be on uncertain foundations:
Edited by Dammit on Saturday 19th January 14:56
Far left just as anti EU as far right. Mr Corbyn gets this from the Tony Benn days
Socialist party see the EU as a rigged market that only benefits big business and stops things like state aid.
Lifted from Socialist Party
1) Isn't it only right-wing Tories and Ukip who want to leave the EU
No. In the media the referendum campaign has been completely dominated by right-wing, pro-big business politicians. The voice of working class people has not been heard. In fact, however, a number of trade unions - including the militant transport workers' union the RMT - are campaigning for exit. So is the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition (TUSC) of which the Socialist Party is a part.
Our campaign has nothing in common with the right-wing nationalist politicians who speak for exit in the media. In fact TUSC is running a campaign to demand that none of the official 'leave' campaigns receive state funding to peddle their right-wing nationalist reasons for exit.
In the last European referendum campaign, back in 1975, socialists like Tony Benn were prominent campaigners for voting for exit. They understood that the EU (then called the Common Market) was exactly that - an agreement between the different capitalist classes of Europe in order to create the largest possible market and maximise their profits. Since then a succession of EU treaties have further enshrined privatisation and attacks on workers' rights into the fabric of the EU.
It is only necessary to look at the way the institutions of the EU have treated the people of Greece - forcing endless austerity on them which has lowered incomes by an average of one third and led to mass unemployment - to see that the EU acts in the interests of the 1% not the 99%.
Socialist party see the EU as a rigged market that only benefits big business and stops things like state aid.
Lifted from Socialist Party
1) Isn't it only right-wing Tories and Ukip who want to leave the EU
No. In the media the referendum campaign has been completely dominated by right-wing, pro-big business politicians. The voice of working class people has not been heard. In fact, however, a number of trade unions - including the militant transport workers' union the RMT - are campaigning for exit. So is the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition (TUSC) of which the Socialist Party is a part.
Our campaign has nothing in common with the right-wing nationalist politicians who speak for exit in the media. In fact TUSC is running a campaign to demand that none of the official 'leave' campaigns receive state funding to peddle their right-wing nationalist reasons for exit.
In the last European referendum campaign, back in 1975, socialists like Tony Benn were prominent campaigners for voting for exit. They understood that the EU (then called the Common Market) was exactly that - an agreement between the different capitalist classes of Europe in order to create the largest possible market and maximise their profits. Since then a succession of EU treaties have further enshrined privatisation and attacks on workers' rights into the fabric of the EU.
It is only necessary to look at the way the institutions of the EU have treated the people of Greece - forcing endless austerity on them which has lowered incomes by an average of one third and led to mass unemployment - to see that the EU acts in the interests of the 1% not the 99%.
I don't mind reading peoples' opinions on Brexit on here (as Cmoose said it was clearly flagged, although I took it more for a let's have some fun thread from the title and initial posts). I follow it with curiosity with a vested interest as I am about to launch a UK business/subsidiary and still own a (very small) property in the UK.
Not really a topic for a car forum but then again it is more interesting than will/won't my bla bla depreciate by x per year / make money / which colour and options are best for resale etc. / I am so annoyed xx won't sell me a car and the cars are all being sold to the same people who buy tons of other models from the same manufacturer etc etc
Also did not find the "tone" on this thread to be particularly bad for recent form on Pistonheads (not necessarily an endorsment but well…)
Enjoy your weekend guys - I drove my FF into the mountains on snow today and then had a decent run on the Autobahn later in the day
Not really a topic for a car forum but then again it is more interesting than will/won't my bla bla depreciate by x per year / make money / which colour and options are best for resale etc. / I am so annoyed xx won't sell me a car and the cars are all being sold to the same people who buy tons of other models from the same manufacturer etc etc
Also did not find the "tone" on this thread to be particularly bad for recent form on Pistonheads (not necessarily an endorsment but well…)
Enjoy your weekend guys - I drove my FF into the mountains on snow today and then had a decent run on the Autobahn later in the day
Xfe said:
One poster described Jacob Rees-Mogg as a disaster capitalist
He's probably got a tough skin. I'm sure he's been called much worse before.Xfe said:
I don't think I really need to explain why holding another vote is anti-democratic and dangerous in the extreme. But I will: if you hold a second vote before you implement the results of the first, why should there not be a third vote? Or a fourth? If we implement the result of a vote, it demonstrates that the democratic process holds power and that votes mean something. If a result is not implemented, there is no reason whatsoever to keep faith in the democratic system.
There are certainly issues with a second vote, because people were told "this is the vote to decide". However, I think that's just a feature of referendums - the Scottish indie ref and the SNP, for example, or any change to the Irish constitution - especially when people vote for something and then the situation or climate changes. As clear cut as we're told the vote was, the truth is that the result of 51/49 should show that there is no consensus on what to be done, so it should come as no surprise that disagreements will continue.However, the government have been allowed second votes: First the Tory party were allowed to vote if they still wanted May as leader, having first voted her there after the Brexit ref. Following that, government as a whole were allowed to vote if they wanted the Conservatives to remain in power. At no point did anyway say "you can't vote on this because May Means May".
If MPs are allowed 2 extra votes on this, why can't us plebs?
IknowJoseph said:
He's probably got a tough skin. I'm sure he's been called much worse before.
I'm sure he has - it is certainly required when some elements espouse quite hateful rhetoric in the current climate. The fact that JRM has a tough skin doesn't make those attacking his character rather than the arguments any less cowardly!IknowJoseph said:
There are certainly issues with a second vote, because people were told "this is the vote to decide". However, I think that's just a feature of referendums - the Scottish indie ref and the SNP, for example, or any change to the Irish constitution - especially when people vote for something and then the situation or climate changes. As clear cut as we're told the vote was, the truth is that the result of 51/49 should show that there is no consensus on what to be done, so it should come as no surprise that disagreements will continue.
However, the government have been allowed second votes: First the Tory party were allowed to vote if they still wanted May as leader, having first voted her there after the Brexit ref. Following that, government as a whole were allowed to vote if they wanted the Conservatives to remain in power. At no point did anyway say "you can't vote on this because May Means May".
If MPs are allowed 2 extra votes on this, why can't us plebs?
The point you're missing is that the results of the votes you mention were implemented. That is the key difference.However, the government have been allowed second votes: First the Tory party were allowed to vote if they still wanted May as leader, having first voted her there after the Brexit ref. Following that, government as a whole were allowed to vote if they wanted the Conservatives to remain in power. At no point did anyway say "you can't vote on this because May Means May".
If MPs are allowed 2 extra votes on this, why can't us plebs?
At the moment it appears the vote of us plebs doesn't matter if it doesn't align with what our political class desire. Very worrying!
Xfe said:
The point you're missing is that the results of the votes you mention were implemented. That is the key difference.
At the moment it appears the vote of us plebs doesn't matter if it doesn't align with what our political class desire. Very worrying!
Does that mean we can have another vote to enter the EU on the 1/04.......At the moment it appears the vote of us plebs doesn't matter if it doesn't align with what our political class desire. Very worrying!
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