991.2 gt3 - when is right to buy

[Macca993]

Thanks guys for the feedback.

Its really not a particulalry clear cut thing. There are so many factors involved and the nut behond the wheel is definately a significant one of them. Other things to consider are where on the track the upchange is occuring and of course to estimate a 0.2s loss per shift does require taking an educated guess at some other parameters occuring in the data to fix parts of the equation. In reality it will vary per driver and for each shift, however my original notes on the subject showed 0.20-0.25 was typical for my driving.

My point was not to discredit or credit any particular posters point of view on the subject, rather to start pointing to some actual factual data I had considered in my own alaysis rather than "shooting in the breeze" which tends to happen alot on such forums.

I accept this is not the correct place to be having these discussions and I also am resigned to the fact I am not tained to read this data (rather self taught) so its worth someone with a more enginnering/mathmatical mind looking at it closer. What I do have is some data and some footage and some track time so I guess thats a start lol.

I am sending the raw AIM data files to one of the members on this board who can pull it apart and better analyse it as I think its a facinating subject. We long wondered how the GT4 could only be a little slower on a shortish-medium length track given its 100+hp down and manual. Of course its torque to weight ratio is almost identical to the GT3 with PDK and that does make some difference as torque is very useful for getting out of a corner, but then again the 911 puts power down on exit very effectvely because of its nature so again as I say there are assumptions one has to build into the data that are not imperical without full blown test environment...

Maybe we start another thread on the topic.

[Macca993]

Also apologies. It seems I have spread my footage over three accounts. Motecca actually only has a couple of clips but "Motecca Limited" has a few more:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=motec...

I actually have comparable footage between the two test laps we are using for the data analysis above but im not much of a sical media guy so Ill need to dig out and upload. I have AIM telemetric footage for viryually every track day I attend (maybe 50 or more over the last -3 years).

[RSVP911]

av185 said:

Macca does know his stuff for sure.

And we are all of course still eternally grateful to him for his great efforts and results throughout the 991.1. GT3 engine episode.

+1

[993rsr]

RSVP911 said:

av185 said:

Macca does know his stuff for sure.

And we are all of course still eternally grateful to him for his great efforts and results throughout the 991.1. GT3 engine episode.

+1

Absolutely, and a real tonic to have someone with such a wealth of knowledge enlighten us with such detailed insight.

[isaldiri]

Macca, sent you a PM earlier, hope you got it

[Macca993]

isaldiri said:

Macca, sent you a PM earlier, hope you got it

Thanks. yes. Ive responded with the data you need :-)

[angussampson]

Cheib said:

angussampson said:

Thanks.. yes noticed th Redline... my girlfriend thinks “it looks like a normal car colour...!”

Intersting ... GR .

Is Crayon popular ?

Is Miami popular ? Girlfriend likes this colour...

Son thinks I should borrow extra 60 k and get an RS.......... I said he may inherit lots more cash in 40 years.....

You’re girlfriend is right in that sapphire is a colour that’s popular on other models....that said with silver wheels and these decals looks fantastic...shame the Redline car has the black wheels which don’t work as well with Sapphire.

Yeah, see what you mean...All depends how it’s ‘ dressed’

Did anyone else on here not drive one of these cars before buying it... ?

Is there a thread about RS values similar to this ?

It seem that quite a few people don’t plan to keep their car for long either...I’m kind of planning on keeping this a long time.... though I prefer a manual, I’m also condpsidering the 991.2 RS... and previously condpsidered the 997 RS as I think it’ll be worth more ( comparesd to non RS .2) but think I’d be more comfy driving a new car hardish and would be too sympathetic to the old 997.2 rs...( not that I’m an amazing driver , it must be said). Has anyone else been in this quandary and how did you reconcile it....?

Has anyone done any research , graphs/ charts about such relative values between models..?

I appreciate this is having an eye
, almost both on investment as I want a manual (!) and the monthly payments would be almost 900 a month more for the 991.2 RS . I.e Are 991.2 RS and non RS values going to converge or diverge from here in percentage terms over the next 5 years and 15 .....? Now there’s a question!

[Sierra Mike]

Good to see you Macca. Let's catch up!

[Macca993]

Sierra Mike said:

Good to see you Macca. Let's catch up!

Hey Sunil. Hope you are travelling well buddy. Will talk soon :-)

[Dbartels]

angussampson said:

Yeah, see what you mean...All depends how it’s ‘ dressed’

Did anyone else on here not drive one of these cars before buying it... ?

Is there a thread about RS values similar to this ?

It seem that quite a few people don’t plan to keep their car for long either...I’m kind of planning on keeping this a long time.... though I prefer a manual, I’m also condpsidering the 991.2 RS... and previously condpsidered the 997 RS as I think it’ll be worth more ( comparesd to non RS .2) but think I’d be more comfy driving a new car hardish and would be too sympathetic to the old 997.2 rs...( not that I’m an amazing driver , it must be said). Has anyone else been in this quandary and how did you reconcile it....?

Has anyone done any research , graphs/ charts about such relative values between models..?

I appreciate this is having an eye
, almost both on investment as I want a manual (!) and the monthly payments would be almost 900 a month more for the 991.2 RS . I.e Are 991.2 RS and non RS values going to converge or diverge from here in percentage terms over the next 5 years and 15 .....? Now there’s a question!

I know of Oak green GT3 Touring for sale but it is left hand drive.

[hunter 66]

Whilst money is important , still do not see it a reason for buying a car .... which is use it hard and yes then it will depreciate , so what ....

[Porsche911R]

hunter 66 said:

Whilst money is important , still do not see it a reason for buying a car .... which is use it hard and yes then it will depreciate , so what ....

Most people are not as rich as you, so money comes into 97% peoples car buying as it's the 2nd most expensive thing people ever buy.

we do need rich people to buy new cars though so I can buy them 50% less in 2 years time, I paid £38k for my GT3 and the same £38k for my BMW CSL.
my GF just bought a £27k mini 2 years old for £15k.

So money is the main buying issue for most people other wise we would all be in Ferrari's. You forget most owners on here are buying GT4 and GT3 at overs, you get yours at list so can add 20k miles and not loose 1p.

[Digga]

I think there's also a temptation for people to buy the most car they can afford to buy, which is (in value) perhaps, often, greater than the car they can actually afford to 'use'. Two very different propositions.

[Porsche911R]

Digga said:

I think there's also a temptation for people to buy the most car they can afford to buy, which is (in value) perhaps, often, greater than the car they can actually afford to 'use'. Two very different propositions.

very few people BUY/own cars now days (as an asset they can sell if needed), so people who BUY car's tend to be able to afford them.

PCP cars people cannot in the main afford to own it, they just think they do ! or want to seem like they can, this is at every level.

I could rent a £300k car but choose to own a £135k car, big difference, but the same can be said lower down the field, people who have say £10k for a car can rent a £35k car in the main or maybe a £50k car. The thing is they PAY through the nose to rent a car they other wise could not afford, and then stuck in the doom of PCP hell on a 8k PA mileage limit and no £10k deposit for the next one, I have seem people lose £40k plus and start off in a £50k car and 6 years later have to rent a base Clio or buy a £2k run about. look at other forums and people are willing to spend >£600 a month to drive a £50k car !

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 14th March 09:17

[Geoff39GL]

Porsche911R said:

Digga said:

I think there's also a temptation for people to buy the most car they can afford to buy, which is (in value) perhaps, often, greater than the car they can actually afford to 'use'. Two very different propositions.

very few people BUY/own cars now days (as an asset they can sell if needed), so people who BUY car's tend to be able to afford them.

PCP cars people cannot in the main afford to own it, they just think they do ! or want to seem like they can, this is at every level.

I could rent a £300k car but choose to own a £135k car, big difference, but the same can be said lower down the field, people who have say £10k for a car can rent a £35k car in the main or maybe a £50k car. The thing is they PAY through the nose to rent a car they other wise could not afford, and then stuck in the doom of PCP hell on a 8k PA mileage limit and no £10k deposit for the next one, I have seem people lose £40k plus and start off in a £50k car and 6 years later have to rent a base Clio or buy a £2k run about. look at other forums and people are willing to spend >£600 a month to drive a £50k car !

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 14th March 09:17

I don't think you can make a hard and fast rule. There are many situations where for different reasons people buy either on PCP or HP.

I buy my cars on PCP as I cannot see the point as a retired person without masses of money in drawing out £100k to pay for a car. That money after charges is earning between 6% and 10% in my pension drawdown, I can get a PCP shopping around at between 4% and 6%, my current M2C is at 4.2% and all I've put down is £6k why would I pay cash for a depreciating asset as long as you can afford the payments that equal the depreciation.
Why pay cash ?

[av185]

Geoff39GL said:

I don't think you can make a hard and fast rule. There are many situations where for different reasons people buy either on PCP or HP.

I buy my cars on PCP as I cannot see the point as a retired person without masses of money in drawing out £100k to pay for a car. That money after charges is earning between 6% and 10% in my pension drawdown, I can get a PCP shopping around at between 4% and 6%, my current M2C is at 4.2% and all I've put down is £6k why would I pay cash for a depreciating asset as long as you can afford the payments that equal the depreciation.
Why pay cash ?

Without turning this into yet another pcp thread I can see the sense (to a degree) in pcping a depreciating car such as a McLaren but if you have cash why would anyone pcp an appreciating or very low depreciating car such as a GT Porsche unless your money is making you at least say 10% in other investments?

[993rsr]

Porsche911R said:

hunter 66 said:

Whilst money is important , still do not see it a reason for buying a car .... which is use it hard and yes then it will depreciate , so what ....

Most people are not as rich as you, so money comes into 97% peoples car buying as it's the 2nd most expensive thing people ever buy.

we do need rich people to buy new cars though so I can buy them 50% less in 2 years time, I paid £38k for my GT3 and the same £38k for my BMW CSL.
my GF just bought a £27k mini 2 years old for £15k.

So money is the main buying issue for most people other wise we would all be in Ferrari's. You forget most owners on here are buying GT4 and GT3 at overs, you get yours at list so can add 20k miles and not loose 1p.

Time and time again it's that chip on your shoulder, Hunter has not mentioned being 'rich'. You don't know him, have never met him and yet you make this conclusion.

Historically these cars were bought by people to be used and depreciated - fact - long before you became an owner.

The problem you have is you are completely obsessed by the residual value, and limit the use of the car accordingly, in so far as to protect as much of the residual value as you can for fear of taking a small loss.

With all due respect what the flying fxxk is the point of having the thing if all you do is talk about value and 'one off spec' rather than driving the car!

Edited by 993rsr on Thursday 14th March 10:07

[993rsr]

Porsche911R said:

Digga said:

I think there's also a temptation for people to buy the most car they can afford to buy, which is (in value) perhaps, often, greater than the car they can actually afford to 'use'. Two very different propositions.

very few people BUY/own cars now days (as an asset they can sell if needed), so people who BUY car's tend to be able to afford them.

PCP cars people cannot in the main afford to own it, they just think they do ! or want to seem like they can, this is at every level.

I could rent a £300k car but choose to own a £135k car, big difference, but the same can be said lower down the field, people who have say £10k for a car can rent a £35k car in the main or maybe a £50k car. The thing is they PAY through the nose to rent a car they other wise could not afford, and then stuck in the doom of PCP hell on a 8k PA mileage limit and no £10k deposit for the next one, I have seem people lose £40k plus and start off in a £50k car and 6 years later have to rent a base Clio or buy a £2k run about. look at other forums and people are willing to spend >£600 a month to drive a £50k car !

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 14th March 09:17

As ever different strokes for different folks.

You choose to pay for your car but at your own admission live in a modest house on an estate.

It's all about choices, yours is the right one for you, but not for others simple. FFS get it into your head your opinion is not the only option.

[r1flyguy1]

993rsr said:

As ever different strokes for different folks.

You choose to pay for your car but at your own admission live in a modest house on an estate.

It's all about choices, yours is the right one for you, but not for others simple. FFS get it into your head your opinion is not the only option.

That’ll never happen