997/996 GT3 dynamics
Discussion
Perhaps counter to some of the views on this excellent thread, I prefer the 997.2GT3 to the 996.2GT3. That said, I would happily concede that the 6.2 is the purer and more analogue of the two. I would also suggest it has a sweeter gearbox, the one in the 7.2 lacking the slickness of the earlier car. But with the majority of my miles being on the road, the unforgiving nature of the 6.2 with only ABS to bail me out led to even greater caution when the weather turned inclement. By contrast, I have been very impressed how well the 7.2 on its Cup2 will deal with poor conditions. Not to say that prudence isn’t required but slightly less of it.
Rev matching and heel and toe. Those of us who learned to drive in the ‘60’s had no option but to rev match as there was no synchro on first and that on other gears often well worn. Double de clutching we called it at the time. Those days are gone but today on track rev matching in the braking area does require H&T. I claim no great proficiency and would be shown up by many of the more competent drivers who have already posted on here. Where I find a problem with H&T away from the circuit is that the amount of brake pedal travel to bring the accelerator into range is more than I really want to apply. The problem arises from the pedals being top hung. It can be overcome by an additional plate on the accelerator or of course by hinging the pedals on the floor.
A word on seats. In my view the lightweight fixed back 7.2 seats are just about perfect, though of course they have pedigree
. I find them comfortable for 500+ miles days while providing more than adequate support on track.
And another thing in favour of the 7.2, with lift it means I’m not forever refixing the front splitter as I was with the 6.2, which In the end I left it off completely and didn’t really miss it.
But both are great cars, we are fortunate to have the opportunity to enjoy them. I had three good years in the 6.2 before moving it on. The 7.2 despite its idiotic centre locks I will never sell.
Rev matching and heel and toe. Those of us who learned to drive in the ‘60’s had no option but to rev match as there was no synchro on first and that on other gears often well worn. Double de clutching we called it at the time. Those days are gone but today on track rev matching in the braking area does require H&T. I claim no great proficiency and would be shown up by many of the more competent drivers who have already posted on here. Where I find a problem with H&T away from the circuit is that the amount of brake pedal travel to bring the accelerator into range is more than I really want to apply. The problem arises from the pedals being top hung. It can be overcome by an additional plate on the accelerator or of course by hinging the pedals on the floor.
A word on seats. In my view the lightweight fixed back 7.2 seats are just about perfect, though of course they have pedigree
. I find them comfortable for 500+ miles days while providing more than adequate support on track.And another thing in favour of the 7.2, with lift it means I’m not forever refixing the front splitter as I was with the 6.2, which In the end I left it off completely and didn’t really miss it.
But both are great cars, we are fortunate to have the opportunity to enjoy them. I had three good years in the 6.2 before moving it on. The 7.2 despite its idiotic centre locks I will never sell.
Digga said:
D.no said:
Oulton Park, and Donington are fairly high up the list too, but for some reason I haven't enjoyed my recent track excursions as much as I used to. After a handful of laps I find myself getting bored (which is strange to admit), and then my mind wanders and I get overcome by mechanical sympathy.
I sort of get you there. I think, once driver fatigue sets in, it can seem a bit like driving in circles. I also get the thought that I can either 'bank' the good laps and experience I've had out of the day, or risk over-doing things and then it's a step back rather than forward sometimes.
Experience bears this out. The biggest mtb crash I ever had (snapped a set of carbon fibre handlebars clean in two) was on the "last run of the day" down an Alpine black-grade downhill race course.
And to be honest once you have the racing bug, it becomes frustrating to politely deal with traffic all day.. Even racing something with 150bhp or less is more fun than you'll ever find on a track day even in a GT3. Sorry.
For the road cars I am lucky enough to live over the west side of our little island, so access to roads in Wales give some fun as do road trips up to the highlands and the likes.
Whatever floats your boat but the most important thing is to drive it. Polishing it and looking at it is also allowed, but only if you drive it. ;-)
Digga said:
The biggest mtb crash I ever had (snapped a set of carbon fibre handlebars clean in two) was on the "last run of the day" down an Alpine black-grade downhill race course.
A bit OT (sorry) but yes - the last mtb crash I had was the last run of the day too, at the Malverns GT classic, on the downhill part of the enduro route. On the last two circuits I'd been eyeing-up a faster (straight) line into a jump, which I took on the final run, and of course hit the jump far faster than on the previous runs. The resultant air time, coupled with a gusty side wind, and low front tyre pressures meant the next thing I remembered was coming round with both legs in the mother of all nettle patches. Fortunately i had protected the more vulnerable areas of my body by breaking the fall with my face.Learning that bravado is no substitute for skill can be painful on a mtb, ,and both painful and very expensive in a car.
lowndes said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Pretty much the same as you, ball of foot on brake, side on throttleD.no said:
Learning that bravado is no substitute for skill can be painful on a mtb, ,and both painful and very expensive in a car.
3 days in Bourg St Maurice hosptial, plus needing two seats on the plane home because of my arm/shoulder sling wasn't cheap, but thankfully was insured!alfapork said:
And to be honest once you have the racing bug, it becomes frustrating to politely deal with traffic all day.. Even racing something with 150bhp or less is more fun than you'll ever find on a track day even in a GT3. Sorry.
Agree. I can easily do 2h stints during VLN or 24h at the Ring. It just never gets boring. Since I started racing many years back, I have never done a track day again. though
Dr S said:
alfapork said:
And to be honest once you have the racing bug, it becomes frustrating to politely deal with traffic all day.. Even racing something with 150bhp or less is more fun than you'll ever find on a track day even in a GT3. Sorry.
Agree. I can easily do 2h stints during VLN or 24h at the Ring. It just never gets boring. Since I started racing many years back, I have never done a track day again. thoughI’ve kind of come full circle in this scenario. Initially I felt the same about track days. Frankly boring compared to racing. I have a different view now. No sponsors to look after no interviews, no team mates to deal with. No pressure to win. just like minded people who just want to have fun. Who you can share advice with without the fear of it being used against you later. And there are still plenty of corners where you have a clear run on entry and exit
I like track days
I like track days
alfapork said:
Dr S said:
alfapork said:
And to be honest once you have the racing bug, it becomes frustrating to politely deal with traffic all day.. Even racing something with 150bhp or less is more fun than you'll ever find on a track day even in a GT3. Sorry.
Agree. I can easily do 2h stints during VLN or 24h at the Ring. It just never gets boring. Since I started racing many years back, I have never done a track day again. thoughSome years back I did the full 4h of a VLN race alone. I must admit that I was bit knackered that evening
Steve Rance said:
I’ve kind of come full circle in this scenario. Initially I felt the same about track days. Frankly boring compared to racing. I have a different view now. No sponsors to look after no interviews, no team mates to deal with. No pressure to win. just like minded people who just want to have fun. Who you can share advice with without the fear of it being used against you later. And there are still plenty of corners where you have a clear run on entry and exit
I like track days
I can fully appreciate this mindset. I never raced, but held an MSA licence for a few years to compete in sprints and hillclimbs. They are far, far lower stress than racing. Everyone I know who's raced has had 'that' incident where someone with deeper pockets has edged them out, knowing they'll give way. Racing is hugely competitive and so budgets are commensurately bigger.I like track days
Not that amateur speed events weren't costly, I mean even back then, the front runners were spending £10'sk on their engines. We all had full cages and completely non-stock brakes and suspension. That sort of cost pales in comparison to racing though, I know.
With the sport, the pressure sometimes means you don;t get to appreciate the moment; the track, the car, the speed, the flow. You're chasing the clock or your competitors to the point that often you can't really remember too much of it afterward.
Dr S said:
alfapork said:
And to be honest once you have the racing bug, it becomes frustrating to politely deal with traffic all day.. Even racing something with 150bhp or less is more fun than you'll ever find on a track day even in a GT3. Sorry.
Agree. I can easily do 2h stints during VLN or 24h at the Ring. It just never gets boring. Since I started racing many years back, I have never done a track day again. though ). Racing isn't for me I have to admit as I have no ability first and foremost
and I don't want to get into the mindset of having to be faster/beat than everyone else to enjoy myself really. Now if I actually was talented enough at driving perhaps I might change my mind... 
isaldiri said:
It's a question of mentality surely?... trackdays are for having fun/meeting up with like minded friends and driving your car in a way that you simply couldn't on the road.
I think this is the mindset you (well I, to be precise) need. It does work at that level, for sure.isaldiri said:
It's nice of course to get a good few clear laps but dealing with traffic isn't quite as bad as it's made up of if the trackday isn't overcrowded and people are being reasonable.
Very much depends on the trackday IME. The Oulton RS day, for example, has always been excellent. Certainly, I generally feel I'm more in danger of hold other people up than being help up myself (and check mirrors fastidiously as a result.) Agree fully , track days are about chilling with friends , talking cars and some gentle laps in you road car . Racing is the opposite and is a very slippery slope in big money spend . But it does get you on exotic tracks like Le Mans and Daytona , racing at night , in the rain , which in itself is scary to the point that track days are a pleasant experience and as Steve said become enjoyable again .
So a circle .
So a circle .
back to my favourite topic - how stupid is it to run a 996 Cup on road tyres…. I just don't want to have to (can't) buy/store an SUV and a trailer. Also I'd rather be very uncomfortable on my way to a track than driven a bloody SUV with a trailer ….
Have spoken to a shop and they think it is still possible to road reg one (even if they do not recommend it)
Have spoken to a shop and they think it is still possible to road reg one (even if they do not recommend it)
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