997.1 GT3 going back to standard PASM from KW

[BertBert]

When I bought my Clubsport recently, it came with the PASM dampers in a box and KWs fitted. Opinion from Matt at Fearnsport is that it drives as you'd expect with the KWs. I've just been away for a weekend touring the New Forest with Mrs R and it's too firm, especially with the bucket seats. Fab on smooth roads, but less so on bumpy roads.

So unless it's adjusted to the firm side (will have to have a look-see and work out how the dampers are adjusted) and there's lots of adjustment softer, I think I will have the PASM dampers serviced and go back to them.

Anyone any thoughts on how soft the KWs can go? Also, how much are they likely to be worth as used items? It'd be nice to fund the whole transaction from the sale of the KWs.

Any other words of wisdom on the matter gratefully received!

Cheers
Bert

[Mitch911]

Before you do that, play with the KWs - I had a set on a 1M and the suppleness was a huge improvement over stock. It was setup as a road car and they weren’t wizzy KWs (standard v3) and they were great on my south of England roads.

Not the same car so PASM might still be the way to go, but worth playing. Also, double check the previous owner hasn’t oversprung the car. CG will have a good idea if you can work out what springs you have.

[Steve Rance]

Bert. Which version of KW’s do you have fitted?

[Slippydiff]

997.1 CS KW Clubsports not finding favour here :

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/9816...

[BertBert]

Steve Rance said:

Bert. Which version of KW’s do you have fitted?

Looking at the docs, it's KW Clubsport Typ 997 GT3 /GT3RS.
I don't know the spring rates, although looking at the paperwork, I can see reference to a rear spring set at 120N (per mm?). I think they were put on the rear to soften it from what it was.
Bert

[Slippydiff]

BertBert said:

Steve Rance said:

Bert. Which version of KW’s do you have fitted?

Looking at the docs, it's KW Clubsport Typ 997 GT3 /GT3RS.
I don't know the spring rates, although looking at the paperwork, I can see reference to a rear spring set at 120N (per mm?). I think they were put on the rear to soften it from what it was.
Bert

BertBert said:

Looking at the docs, it's KW Clubsport Typ 997 GT3 /GT3RS.
I don't know the spring rates, although looking at the paperwork, I can see reference to a rear spring set at 120N (per mm?). I think they were put on the rear to soften it from what it was.
Bert

Standard Gen 1 993 GT3 105 N/mm rear, 40N/mm front.

Standard 997.1 GT3 KW Clubsport rates look to be 70N/mm front and 190N/mm rear ...

Edited by Slippydiff on Sunday 27th January 23:18

[ttdan]

I wouldn’t say the pasm is that supple personally. It’s better with a dsc controller.

KW club sport is a pretty full on coil over set up, three way or two way? I have a 3 way set on my e92 and they do soften off but still a bit compromised for road.

[BertBert]

Feels like the best way is to go back to standard to me. If the PO has tried to soften the standard KW setup already, it's not really worked. I could faff around for a while or just bite the bullet. Having driven a standard 997.1 GT3 it was much better. Although comfy seats would have softened the standard car a bit as well.

Anyone want some KWs?
Bert

[D.no]

ttdan said:

I wouldn’t say the pasm is that supple personally. It’s better with a dsc controller.

KW club sport is a pretty full on coil over set up, three way or two way? I have a 3 way set on my e92 and they do soften off but still a bit compromised for road.

I had V3's on an M3 CSL a few years ago (old tech'?) and although great on track it was borderline bearable on the road.

Conversely I find the PASM on the GT3 to be really good from a comfort perspective, in fact I drive it with the dampers in sport mode a lot of the time, for a more hardcore experience! The ride quality was actually one of the biggest surprises I took away from the first drive of a 997 GT3. I was expecting a much firmer ride having read a lot of comments on forums.

Just illustrates that the only way to judge these things is with personal experience. No one can feel what you yourself feel, and we all have different expectations and tolerance/threshold levels.

[Slippydiff]

BertBert said:

Feels like the best way is to go back to standard to me. If the PO has tried to soften the standard KW setup already, it's not really worked. I could faff around for a while or just bite the bullet. Having driven a standard 997.1 GT3 it was much better. Although comfy seats would have softened the standard car a bit as well.

Anyone want some kW’s ? One elderly lady owner, never tracked ...

EFA

The standard set up is fine if it’s in good fettle. I’d get the OE dampers dyno’ed to make sure their up to scratch before re-fitting them to the car. If they’re not good, new replacements aren’t horrendously expensive.
If you want improve things further over standard, the DSC ECU seems to get decent enough reviews on Rennlist.

[BertBert]

I was going to have them serviced anyway as I think they have done most of the mega miles of the car!

[Slippydiff]

BertBert said:

I was going to have them serviced anyway as I think they have done most of the mega miles of the car!

My understanding is, that unlike the non-PASM Bilstein dampers fitted to the 996 GT2/3, the 997 GT3 PASM dampers are sealed and thus not serviceable
But don’t take my word for it, speak to : David Masters
Workshop Manager
ThyssenKrupp Bilstein Tuning GmbH
Unit 3 Swannington Road
Broughton Astley LE9 6TU
Leicestershire
England
[phone]
[phone] fax

[BertBert]

Thanks, I'll check. When I spoke to bilstein at the autosport show, they seemed ok that they were serviceable. I could just get them dynoed to see what's what.
Bert

[Retept]

PASM's can be refurbished mine are with David at the moment.....

A word of warning, if you send the in the post make sure you protect the cable ends very well. DPD managed to snap two cables off the rods, which has been a great pain for me and David as there was no free stock in the UK and very limited in Europe. Seven weeks later I should be getting them back tomorrow!

[Slippydiff]

BertBert said:

Thanks, I'll check. When I spoke to bilstein at the autosport show, they seemed ok that they were serviceable. I could just get them dynoed to see what's what.
Bert

Retept said:

PASM's can be refurbished mine are with David at the moment.....

A word of warning, if you send the in the post make sure you protect the cable ends very well. DPD managed to snap two cables off the rods, which has been a great pain for me and David as there was no free stock in the UK and very limited in Europe. Seven weeks later I should be getting them back tomorrow!

Glad to be corrected
Contact details the same, or speak to Chris at Center Gravity as he has a damper dyno AND close links to Bilstein UK....

[isaldiri]

OP - you could consider changing to Bilstein PSS10s as well. IIRC a member here who used to post rather more frequently previously (fioran0 I think?) used to recommend them as an upgrade over the OEM units.

[BertBert]

It's good to get confirmation that they can be serviced. Going to Chris makes sense as he can assess the dampers first and get them serviced if they need it. Although I'm sure they will. I had thought of the PSS10s but I have the PASM dampers and I quite like the idea of going back to standard.
Cheers
Bert

[Slippydiff]

isaldiri said:

OP - you could consider changing to Bilstein PSS10s as well. IIRC a member here who used to post rather more frequently previously (fioran0 I think?) used to recommend them as an upgrade over the OEM units.

It was indeed Neil (Fioran0).

[Slippydiff]

BertBert said:

It's good to get confirmation that they can be serviced. Going to Chris makes sense as he can assess the dampers first and get them serviced if they need it. Although I'm sure they will. I had thought of the PSS10s but I have the PASM dampers and I quite like the idea of going back to standard.
Cheers
Bert

Speak to Chris about these too then : https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod3044/Bilstein-B...

Might be the best of all worlds.

[krispe]

If you are going back to PASM then definatley go for the DSC Controller with 3-axis accelerator. It will improve the ride quality no end on a gen 1 997 and also allow the shocks to perform better on track as well. My 997 wasn't a GT3 though, only an S, but the DSC controller was excellent.