Porsche GT track day
Discussion
APOLO1 said:
Do they do an online drivers briefing now on the Silvestone days? like a few other do. When i have attended their days in the past the chap that did the briefing was really strict about over or under taking in the corners. Anyone doing this just once was going home.
Yes, they do, but moot. They were both in no position to continue on track in any case.On the other point, I did check Terms & Conditions: https://www.silverstone.co.uk/terms-and-conditions...
Scroll down to "cameras and filming" subsection:
Ts and Cs said:
I agree to use images and footage responsibly. Any images taken at the event will be strictly for personal use
only and not used for any commercial purposes, including on board cameras. If such images include imagery
of an accident you must make such images/footage available to Silverstone Circuit Limited and agree not to
post such images/footage on social media sites including but not limited to You Tube and Facebook. If any
material filmed should appear on such media then I agree to pay SCL the sum of £25,000.
So in a way, even if you never filled out the attached form, you have agreed, in principal, to the overall track day Terms & Conditions...only and not used for any commercial purposes, including on board cameras. If such images include imagery
of an accident you must make such images/footage available to Silverstone Circuit Limited and agree not to
post such images/footage on social media sites including but not limited to You Tube and Facebook. If any
material filmed should appear on such media then I agree to pay SCL the sum of £25,000.
Taffy66 said:
Pretty stupid driving and highlights why its never wise to go on any track day without insurance. In this example the 996GT2's driver should be liable for the damage for both cars IMO. Having said that I still feel sympathy for the guy and I bet he's still kicking himself.
The Rupert Lewin case set a precedent many years ago, basically you are liable for your own damage.The M3 was clearly on the right, the GT2 had a race Ferrari closing in on him, one of those things and if you go on track there are risks. You don't jump into a boxing ring and moan when you get a black eye.
Sad to see a car to car incident especially with two nice cars.
In this case though it seems to me to be as 993rsr says a bit of everything. The M3 was quite a bit to the right off the racing line and therefore inviting an overtake - sometimes the car in front does give the impression that it has seen you and giving you space nearer the corner. The 996 (with a bit of bravado and the challenge car behind it) may have decided to use that gap....obviously with hindsight he probably regrets this...but heat of the moment split decision.
...and then arrived at the bend too wide and fast and the rest is history.
If the M3 had 'owned' the correct racing line then there would have been no space for the 996 to overtake unless diving up the inside which everyone knows is a total no no.
Anyway, not kicking anyone individually as s
t happens on circuit in split seconds.
In this case though it seems to me to be as 993rsr says a bit of everything. The M3 was quite a bit to the right off the racing line and therefore inviting an overtake - sometimes the car in front does give the impression that it has seen you and giving you space nearer the corner. The 996 (with a bit of bravado and the challenge car behind it) may have decided to use that gap....obviously with hindsight he probably regrets this...but heat of the moment split decision.
...and then arrived at the bend too wide and fast and the rest is history.
If the M3 had 'owned' the correct racing line then there would have been no space for the 996 to overtake unless diving up the inside which everyone knows is a total no no.
Anyway, not kicking anyone individually as s
t happens on circuit in split seconds.993rsr said:
The Rupert Lewin case set a precedent many years ago, basically you are liable for your own damage.
The M3 was clearly on the right, the GT2 had a race Ferrari closing in on him, one of those things and if you go on track there are risks. You don't jump into a boxing ring and moan when you get a black eye.
Agreed, but rules are meant to be followed. I've not watched the full video, did the BMW signal for the GT2 to overtake at that point?The M3 was clearly on the right, the GT2 had a race Ferrari closing in on him, one of those things and if you go on track there are risks. You don't jump into a boxing ring and moan when you get a black eye.
EDIT: LaSource calls it well. An overtake may have been "invited".
Edited by Twinfan on Thursday 19th August 11:02
LaSource said:
Sad to see a car to car incident especially with two nice cars.
Agree totally. Neither driver wanted or deserved a bend.LaSource said:
In this case though it seems to me to be as 993rsr says a bit of everything. The M3 was quite a bit to the right off the racing line and therefore inviting an overtake - sometimes the car in front does give the impression that it has seen you and giving you space nearer the corner.
Have to admit if a car were indicating right there and keeping well to the RHS as if retiring to the pitlane, I'd perhaps consider it, but otherwise...As you say though, a lot going on there for both drivers to process.
In fact, lucky the Ferrari didn't make it three.
Regardless of what the M3 driver was doing with indicators it’s totally the GT2 drivers fault the collision occurred IMO.
GT2 Driver
Lost control of his car (most important point)
Overtook in a braking zone
Overtook on a corner
3 basic rules broken and someone else ends up paying for it.
It happens we know the risks , but personally don’t think I’d be taking it as well as Phil did.
GT2 Driver
Lost control of his car (most important point)
Overtook in a braking zone
Overtook on a corner
3 basic rules broken and someone else ends up paying for it.
It happens we know the risks , but personally don’t think I’d be taking it as well as Phil did.
I experienced a potentially pretty similar scenario at Anglesey in May on a PCGB day where the standard of track driving varied enormously to put it mildly. Another 911 in front was approaching a tight right hand corner completely off the racing line on the hard right going at a much slower pace to myself. On entering the braking zone he swung sharply to the left back on line without indicating right in front of me. At the speed he was going there was no need to be on the racing line anyway. Luckily i abided by the rules on no overtaking in the braking zone/corner otherwise it would have been a nasty shunt.
Rules need to be adhered on track days in terms of when to not overtake to avoid such instances above. There is the great unknown on who are the novices and why i just try and keep to myself and err on the side of caution.
Unfortunately i'm guessing the 992GT2 driver was a pretty experienced track guy who had to make a split second decision which cost him dearly.
Rules need to be adhered on track days in terms of when to not overtake to avoid such instances above. There is the great unknown on who are the novices and why i just try and keep to myself and err on the side of caution.
Unfortunately i'm guessing the 992GT2 driver was a pretty experienced track guy who had to make a split second decision which cost him dearly.
AFAIC it's a tough situation all round and I don't like to discuss other people's driving too much, especially when they are not here to defend or explain.
This on the other hand: https://youtu.be/TgrNxaiZvYY
We can all properly rip into.
This on the other hand: https://youtu.be/TgrNxaiZvYY
We can all properly rip into.
For warm-up/cool down laps, its the responsibility of the slower pace car to not get in the way of the cars running at full pace.. and in neither case is dead slow acceptable and its actually dangerous.
Sessions can work well for smaller or otherwise restricted circuits or very busy days.
Open pit lane is generally preferred because you get more running, but the onus is on the participants to manage themselves responsibly.
Sessions can work well for smaller or otherwise restricted circuits or very busy days.
Open pit lane is generally preferred because you get more running, but the onus is on the participants to manage themselves responsibly.
Digga said:
AFAIC it's a tough situation all round and I don't like to discuss other people's driving too much, especially when they are not here to defend or explain.
This on the other hand: https://youtu.be/TgrNxaiZvYY
We can all properly rip into.
Shocking. Absolutely shocking. The McLaren showing you how it is done, by driving round the outside of the corners then cutting in at the last minute, as opposed to your amateur approach of trying to cut across the inside bitThis on the other hand: https://youtu.be/TgrNxaiZvYY
We can all properly rip into.
TDT said:
For warm-up/cool down laps, its the responsibility of the slower pace car to not get in the way of the cars running at full pace.. and in neither case is dead slow acceptable and its actually dangerous.
Sessions can work well for smaller or otherwise restricted circuits or very busy days.
Open pit lane is generally preferred because you get more running, but the onus is on the participants to manage themselves responsibly.
Very true but it's tricky though isn't it, T, as the speed differential between a novice 986 Boxster driver at say 80% warming up/cooling down versus an ex-racer at full pelt in a GT3RS is massive!Sessions can work well for smaller or otherwise restricted circuits or very busy days.
Open pit lane is generally preferred because you get more running, but the onus is on the participants to manage themselves responsibly.
There's no ideal solution I guess, the bottom line is that everyone has to respect everyone else
Cunno said:
Regardless of what the M3 driver was doing with indicators it’s totally the GT2 drivers fault the collision occurred IMO.
GT2 Driver
Lost control of his car (most important point)
Overtook in a braking zone
Overtook on a corner
3 basic rules broken and someone else ends up paying for it.
It happens we know the risks , but personally don’t think I’d be taking it as well as Phil did.
Yep, the overtaker has full responsibility for making the overtake clean and safe. Unfortunately he didn't recognize that although the M3 invited the overtake by his track positioning, he hadn't lifted off to allow an easy pass. A bit naughty by the M3 but we see it all the time on track days (usually by a more powerful car not lifting for a less powerful car). It's important to spot this and back out of the overtake if necessary and leave it to the next opportunity.GT2 Driver
Lost control of his car (most important point)
Overtook in a braking zone
Overtook on a corner
3 basic rules broken and someone else ends up paying for it.
It happens we know the risks , but personally don’t think I’d be taking it as well as Phil did.
nebpor said:
Shocking. Absolutely shocking. The McLaren showing you how it is done, by driving round the outside of the corners then cutting in at the last minute, as opposed to your amateur approach of trying to cut across the inside bit
Not very gentlemanly I know and I am suitably ashamed.boxsey said:
the M3 invited the overtake by his track positioning...
In absolute fairness to him, one of the points he acknowledges, early in the video, is that he'd never driven the 'new' GP circuit - only the national - and even takes the piss out of himself for referring to it as new when it's been near on 10 years since it was altered.Twinfan said:
Very true but it's tricky though isn't it, T, as the speed differential between a novice 986 Boxster driver at say 80% warming up/cooling down versus an ex-racer at full pelt in a GT3RS is massive!
I'd tend to say that problems tend to happen with people who are more equally matched in pace overall with only a small speed differential than in the above scenario. Especially when it's a car that's got more power but slower in corners ahead which leads to frustration on the part of the driver behind. Per above scenario the people who are quick while cornering are usually quite aware of potentially big speed differentials and likely are a bit more used to dealing with it.As lasource/993rsr said in this case it was a bit of everything and rather frustratingly as with a lot of track incidents, could have been avoided unfortunately.
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