What’s the right price for a 991.2 GT3 ?

[Koln-RS]

If I wanted a pre-owned GT3, pccbs would be a 'must have', would prefer folding buckets to fixed, would probably want front lift, but not a deal breaker, but not at all fussed about LEDs. Colour would be a big decider - not black or white.

However, I do think current prices will progressively soften, as new models and wider choices become the 'next best thing', and even the new GT4 will pinch some customers from this market

[Cheib]

franki68 said:

Cheib said:

The reason they’re holding a premium is top spec cars are selling. Romans, THJ, Top555, OPC Leeds (thread on here started by the buyer) have all sold cars within the last month and all relatively quickly. If the spec is lacking any of PCCB’s, 918 Buckets, Lift, CS, LED’s they really struggle to sell....but that’s what everyone expected when they were ordering cars a year ago....it’s not a surprise.

full comfort spec cars have sold very quick ,there are few if any for sale and they don’t hang around .

True

[Radic]

Found these pages very interesting but lots to think about, for me, must be PDK and low miles, how does this one look.

What would price difference be between OPC and independent?

2018 67 Porsche 911 4.0 GT3 - PDK 2500 miles £147K

Finished In Guards Red with Black Leather / Alcantara Bucket Seats with Red Detail Stitching & Red Stripes - Guards Red Seat Belts.

Standard Specification Includes : Porsche Doppelkupplung ( PDK ) 7 Speed Automatic, Porsche Torque Vectoring Plus ( PTV Plus ), Porsche Communication Management ( PCM ) including Online Navigation, Mobile Phone Preparation, and Audio Interfaces, Dual Climate Control, Radio CD, Clubsport Package, Porsche Active Suspension Management ( PASM ) with Sports Setup and Ride Height Lowered by approx 25 mm ( compared with 911 Carrera ), Porsche Stability Management ( PSM ), Rear Privacy Glass, On Board Trip Computer, Sports Exhaust System with 2 Central Tailpipes in Black, Tyre Pressure Monitoring ( TPM ), Intelligent Lightweight Construction in Aluminium and Steel Composite, Underbody Panelling with Finned Rear Diffuser, Front Apron with Integral Cooling Air Intakes with Titanium - Coloured Grilles, Black Spoiler Lip and Central Air Outlet, Rear Apron moulding with additional Air Outlets including Titanium coloured Grilles, Tailgate including Wing Uprights and Fixed Rear Wing in Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic ( CFRP ) and 2 Ram- Air Scoops, Tailgate, Wing Uprights and Rear Wing in Guards Red, Ram Air Scoops in Black, Rear Apron with " PORSCHE " and " GT3 " Logo in Black, 20 inch 911 GT3 Forged Alloy Centre Lock Wheels with 245/35 ZR 20 Front Tyres and 305/30 ZR20 Rear Tyres, having Optional PCCB

Optional Extras Include :
68 - Black Leather Interior Package ( in conjunction with Option Contrast Seams in Red )
XEY - LED Main Headlights in Black including Porsche Dynamic Light System ( PDLS )
7X9 - Reversing Camera
XYB - Fuel Filler Cap with Aluminium Look Finish
474 - Front Axle Lift System
450 - Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake - PCCB
QR5 - Chrono Package and Preparation for Lap Trigger
579 - Six - Point Racing Harness for Passenger Seat
P13 - Automatically Dimming Mirrors with Integrated Rain Sensor
630 - Light Design Package
886 - Steering Wheel Rim with Top Centre marking in Red
P11 - Full Bucket Seats
583 - Smoking Package
XSX - Guards Red Seat Belts
749 - Leather Interior with Stitching in Red
EKG - Carbon Interior Package ( with Leather Interior )
XXD - Door Sill Guards in Carbon, Illuminated

[Cheib]

Looks great. Get it bought!

Independent/OPC pricing can be pretty much identical...the bigger Independent’s shift cars pretty easily.

[hunter 66]

If buying second hand I would alway opt for Steel brakes as prefer them and saving would be a bonus , and the car would be used a lot so easy to change when need to

[throt]

Cheib said:

Looks great. Get it bought!

Independent/OPC pricing can be pretty much identical...the bigger Independent’s shift cars pretty easily.

Agree, great price..

[GT3RS]

I know PCCB is a popular option and I have had, and still own both PCCB and steel braked cars.

On the plus side, the un-sprung weight advantage is the most obvious benefit along with a higher level of fade resistance in extreme conditions. In practice the minimal brake dust is also a bonus, but that disappears on track to some extent when pad wear can be high if you get them too hot.

PCCB are good especially when compared to most other manufacturer’s ceramic disks, but do have a number of things I think should be considered.

• While these cars are fairly new and low millage, rotor condition is not too much of a concern, but as they get older, I wonder if PCCB condition and possible cost of replacement/refurbishment may not be such a bonus.
• The larger size of the disk/calliper on the front axle leads to more likelihood of trapped stones or debris, which can cause scoring damage to the rims.
• They are more prone to damage when wheel changing as edges can chip easily
• More pad and compound options for steel brakes (most tracked PCCB cars change pads at 50% wear to help protect against overheating the disk surface)
• 991 pads tend to wear unevenly and this can get expensive (PCCB pads cost)
• Take care if any soap/foam cleaners are used when cleaning the car, PCCB in my experience can offer little to no retardation for the first few brake applications even when apparently thoroughly rinsed.

On the road you will struggle to wear your PCCB disks and pads, but on track if you push on they can wear quickly, I have seen horrors at Zolder with ceramic brakes on late Porsches and many other makes. All of this can be managed and problems avoided to the most part, but I worry less about tracking a steel braked car than a ceramic one. The bite of the steel is also more feel some and immediate on steels for me.
In truth even the current generation of PCCB is a little old hat and Porsche have bought into Surface Transforms, which are more durable and feature a more robust construction type than is current used in PCCB.

I personally wouldn’t let the type of brakes be the deciding factor as most won’t be able to tell the difference. If you have a steel car and want the ultimate fit Surface T’s.
Just my 2cents

[Radic]

The musts are PDK and PCCB, the Worcester car above, would be ideal except ( I'm going against the grain now) I would want 18 way sports seats, the expensive option is probably fit second hand seats and keep the buckets for resale time.

[av185]

GT3RS said:

• The larger size of the disk/calliper on the front axle leads to more likelihood of trapped stones or debris, which can cause scoring damage to the rims.

Never had an issue with trapped stones against the calipers on GT3s whether steels or ceramics.

Not so GT4s and Spyder must have had at least 3 on separate occasions trapped in the nearside rear which resulted in slight scoring of the steel disc but each time it was easily remedied by simply reversing a short distance.

[Radic]

One in Wolverhampton 2017, PDK, PCCB, 18 Way Sport seats, Silver, 2400 miles, £160K, £13 more expensive than the red one and doesn't look as nice and a lot less extra bits. OPC against Independent.

[Cheib]

Radic said:

The musts are PDK and PCCB, the Worcester car above, would be ideal except ( I'm going against the grain now) I would want 18 way sports seats, the expensive option is probably fit second hand seats and keep the buckets for resale time.

If that’s the ideal car spec wise apart from 18 ways I would buy it...see if the buckets are better than you think and if not do what you suggest. You’ll probably be waiting an age for a comfort spec car in the right spec....even if one did turn up it might have the 4 way and not 18 way seats as lots prefer them.

Clearly PH is not necessarily a typical sample of owners but I can’t think of anyone on here that specced comfort seats when new...I can think of one person that went without CS but he specced buckets. I would guess 10 to 20% of cars were Comfort Spec.

[av185]

Cheib said:

If that’s the ideal car spec wise apart from 18 ways I would buy it...see if the buckets are better than you think and if not do what you suggest. You’ll probably be waiting an age for a comfort spec car in the right spec....even if one did turn up it might have the 4 way and not 18 way seats as lots prefer them.

Clearly PH is not necessarily a typical sample of owners but I can’t think of anyone on here that specced comfort seats when new...I can think of one person that went without CS but he specced buckets. I would guess 10 to 20% of cars were Comfort Spec.

Yes C, PHers generally went for buckets.

Seem to recollect Franki68 specced comforts on his GT Silver PDK GT3.

I reckon for the UK non cage bucket seated cars are probably rarer than comforts overall.

[Cheib]

Radic said:

One in Wolverhampton 2017, PDK, PCCB, 18 Way Sport seats, Silver, 2400 miles, £160K, £13 more expensive than the red one and doesn't look as nice and a lot less extra bits. OPC against Independent.

Odd spec car IMHO...specced to be used as a daily but no Reversing Camera and Bose. Latter doesn’t make much difference but the former useful. I am so used to driving cars with parking sensors on now that not having any reversing aids is a bit of a liability. Sales Manager at my OPC reversed a 991 RS into a bollard last year

[franki68]

av185 said:

Cheib said:

If that’s the ideal car spec wise apart from 18 ways I would buy it...see if the buckets are better than you think and if not do what you suggest. You’ll probably be waiting an age for a comfort spec car in the right spec....even if one did turn up it might have the 4 way and not 18 way seats as lots prefer them.

Clearly PH is not necessarily a typical sample of owners but I can’t think of anyone on here that specced comfort seats when new...I can think of one person that went without CS but he specced buckets. I would guess 10 to 20% of cars were Comfort Spec.

Yes C, PHers generally went for buckets.

Seem to recollect Franki68 specced comforts on his GT Silver PDK GT3.

I reckon for the UK non cage bucket seated cars are probably rarer than comforts overall.

Yep I did and someone else did is but can’t remember who.

I think non cage bucket are probably the most common spec based on last time I looked at the cars for sale .

[mogg]

I'm wondering about this one. I thought it might have been sold pretty quickly but it hasn't....https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-991/porsche-911-4-0-991-gt3-s-s-2dr/9439129

Any obvious negatives ?

[APOLO1]

GT3RS said:

I know PCCB is a popular option and I have had, and still own both PCCB and steel braked cars.

On the road you will struggle to wear your PCCB disks and pads, but on track if you push on they can wear quickly,

May i enquire what sort of time frame is meant by " can wear quickly if pushed on track" ?

I did over 40 Track and V-Max type events in my Aug 15 91RS, below. When i sold it had 14k Miles around 9k of these were for tack use only. I used the car very hard on track, and had it inspected after every track day. I had the wear rate on the PCBDs checked every 3 track days. During my time with the car it had 2 new sets of Pads plus a the original ones. When i sold the car all of the CCBDs were within the 111 Inspection widow. I had to replace one only front one due to stone chips being outside the 111 inspection range.

Same experience for Trubo S, and 991.1 GT3 .1 and 2. The ceramic coated discs that came in for 13 are a massive step up on from the ones that were used the 997s, etc. Yes i would agree that these ones used to wear out quickly if tracked hard. But not the CCBDs on post 13 Y cars, in fact its the exact opposite based on my experience.

Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 26th April 10:18

[Racer26]

So you've used approx 3 sets of pads, and damaged a disc.
Out of interest - how much is a set of pads fitted, and how much is a replacement disc fitted?
Is it acceptable practice to replace a single disc?

Edited by Racer26 on Saturday 27th April 11:19

[xbowdan]

APOLO1 said:

May i enquire what sort of time frame is meant by " can wear quickly if pushed on track" ?

I did over 40 Track and V-Max type events in my Aug 15 91RS, below. When i sold it had 14k Miles around 9k of these were for tack use only. I used the car very hard on track, and had it inspected after every track day. I had the wear rate on the PCBDs checked every 3 track days. During my time with the car it had 2 new sets of Pads plus a the original ones. When i sold the car all of the CCBDs were within the 111 Inspection widow. I had to replace one only front one due to stone chips being outside the 111 inspection range.

Same experience for Trubo S, and 991.1 GT3 .1 and 2. The ceramic coated discs that came in for 13 are a massive step up on from the ones that were used the 997s, etc. Yes i would agree that these ones used to wear out quickly if tracked hard. But not the CCBDs on post 13 Y cars, in fact its the exact opposite based on my experience.

Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 26th April 10:18

You’re not braking hard enough bud!!
If you’re taking it pretty easy or you’re a relative novice, then I’d agree that ceramics last a reasonably long time. The main issue I found is when the rotors started to go, they’d eat through pads at a much higher rate. In the end, I’d go through a set of pads every 3-4 track days, and by the time I sold the car, they needed a new set of rotors... at a cost of £19k. I didn’t actually do THAT many track days really.... probably 20 in 6 years ownership. Car had done only 24k miles from memory.

I’ve done 2 track days and 2 evening sessions in the 991.2 GT3, and I’ll be needing some pads pretty soon. That’s on steels.

Edited by xbowdan on Saturday 27th April 12:26

[hunter 66]

That is why they are seen as consumables , like tyres . Think Appllo is on it, but he does strictly cool down and look after things ..

[APOLO1]

Racer26 said:

So you've used approx 3 sets of pads, and damaged a disc.
Out of interest - how much is a set of pads fitted, and how much is a replacement disc fitted?
Is it acceptable practice to replace a single disc?

Edited by Racer26 on Saturday 27th April 11:19

Pads 450.00 for the Front 600.00 For the back on 91RS. One Disc on the 91RS was 6k back in April 17, i believe they have come down a lot since then. Also with the ceramic coated CCBDs discs that came in from July 13 Onwards. If one disc is damaged on one axle provided that the disc on the other end of the same axle is showing damage or wear that is within the 111 point inspection window, then only one disc that's outside the 111 inspection range needs to be replaced. My front Left one was badly stone chipped.

There is a good read in the 13 end of year report that goes into some detail's on how Porsche worked in conjunction with the Space Dept at Major Uni to develop the ceramic coating on the post 13 CCBDs, they are light years in front from the ones on the 997 range from track day wear replacement rate.

Edited by APOLO1 on Saturday 27th April 14:18