What’s the right price for a 991.2 GT3 ?
Discussion
Juno said:
IMI A said:
Juno said:
cayman-black said:
Taffy66 said:
It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that new McLarens collapse in value as soon as they leave the showroom..If they don't totally reappraise their business practice and bearing in mind the added political uncertainty, coupled with a global slowdown, it won't surprise me that there will be no McLaren Automotive in five years time.
They might well appreciate then.
MAC 720S gets very upset!
993rsr said:
That’s interesting, I wonder if they actually put it up for sale for what they paid for it rather than what they wanted to sell it for! Fords are still making strong money!
You dont even need full srevice histroy with those.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7...
You dont even need full srevice histroy with those.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7...
Edited by rkwm1 on Monday 4th November 21:43
IMI A said:
You're not allowed to comment on Mac mkt unless you've been rogered as an early Mac adopter/owner - you seriously couldn't make it up. Starting to have some sympathy for you Juno
That's one way of looking at things yes. On the other hand if all one did was go to a marque's forum and continually (and only) go on and on....and on about depreciation it just might get tiresome and be perceived as plain s
t stirring after the umpteenth time......?IMI A said:
Juno said:
IMI A said:
Juno said:
cayman-black said:
Taffy66 said:
It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that new McLarens collapse in value as soon as they leave the showroom..If they don't totally reappraise their business practice and bearing in mind the added political uncertainty, coupled with a global slowdown, it won't surprise me that there will be no McLaren Automotive in five years time.
They might well appreciate then. MAC 720S gets very upset!isaldiri said:
IMI A said:
You're not allowed to comment on Mac mkt unless you've been rogered as an early Mac adopter/owner - you seriously couldn't make it up. Starting to have some sympathy for you Juno
That's one way of looking at things yes. On the other hand if all one did was go to a marque's forum and continually (and only) go on and on....and on about depreciation it just might get tiresome and be perceived as plain st stirring after the umpteenth time......?The only way it will improve is when someone at Mac starts to listen and react accordingly.
Currently a real shame but hey ho,another time perhaps
isaldiri said:
IMI A said:
You're not allowed to comment on Mac mkt unless you've been rogered as an early Mac adopter/owner - you seriously couldn't make it up. Starting to have some sympathy for you Juno
That's one way of looking at things yes. On the other hand if all one did was go to a marque's forum and continually (and only) go on and on....and on about depreciation it just might get tiresome and be perceived as plain st stirring after the umpteenth time......?The difference is Juno and me do not tell you not to bother us on the Porsche forum. Its a forum after all. There's some serious superiority complex prima donna going on here.
Instead of buying Macs why don't you and Mac 720s buy PH and have your own private members club? Or alternatively go and set up your own forum. d
heads.com has a bit of a ring to it ....
Juno said:
isaldiri said:
IMI A said:
You're not allowed to comment on Mac mkt unless you've been rogered as an early Mac adopter/owner - you seriously couldn't make it up. Starting to have some sympathy for you Juno
That's one way of looking at things yes. On the other hand if all one did was go to a marque's forum and continually (and only) go on and on....and on about depreciation it just might get tiresome and be perceived as plain st stirring after the umpteenth time......?The only way it will improve is when someone at Mac starts to listen and react accordingly.
Currently a real shame but hey ho,another time perhaps
IMI A said:
Why stay on motoring forums if you do not like what people have to say? Of course people are going to discuss losing a ton and a half on a 300k car in virtually a day.
The difference is Juno and me do not tell you not to bother us on the Porsche forum. Its a forum after all. There's some serious superiority complex prima donna going on here.
Instead of buying Macs why don't you and Mac 720s buy PH and have your own private members club? Or alternatively go and set up your own forum. dheads.com has a bit of a ring to it ....
You already have ownership of that particular forum i suspect. The difference is Juno and me do not tell you not to bother us on the Porsche forum. Its a forum after all. There's some serious superiority complex prima donna going on here.
Instead of buying Macs why don't you and Mac 720s buy PH and have your own private members club? Or alternatively go and set up your own forum. d
heads.com has a bit of a ring to it ....All I'm saying is that it's imo just bad manners to go out of your way as juno did to bang on and on and on about depreciation (and only about that and nothing else about the cars, not ever anything to do with actually driving the bloody things for example). If that is 'some serious superiority complex' in your head so be it.
Yellow491 said:
Juno said:
isaldiri said:
IMI A said:
You're not allowed to comment on Mac mkt unless you've been rogered as an early Mac adopter/owner - you seriously couldn't make it up. Starting to have some sympathy for you Juno
That's one way of looking at things yes. On the other hand if all one did was go to a marque's forum and continually (and only) go on and on....and on about depreciation it just might get tiresome and be perceived as plain st stirring after the umpteenth time......?The only way it will improve is when someone at Mac starts to listen and react accordingly.
Currently a real shame but hey ho,another time perhaps
isaldiri said:
IMI A said:
Why stay on motoring forums if you do not like what people have to say? Of course people are going to discuss losing a ton and a half on a 300k car in virtually a day.
The difference is Juno and me do not tell you not to bother us on the Porsche forum. Its a forum after all. There's some serious superiority complex prima donna going on here.
Instead of buying Macs why don't you and Mac 720s buy PH and have your own private members club? Or alternatively go and set up your own forum. dheads.com has a bit of a ring to it ....
You already have ownership of that particular forum i suspect. The difference is Juno and me do not tell you not to bother us on the Porsche forum. Its a forum after all. There's some serious superiority complex prima donna going on here.
Instead of buying Macs why don't you and Mac 720s buy PH and have your own private members club? Or alternatively go and set up your own forum. d
heads.com has a bit of a ring to it ....All I'm saying is that it's imo just bad manners to go out of your way as juno did to bang on and on and on about depreciation (and only about that and nothing else about the cars, not ever anything to do with actually driving the bloody things for example). If that is 'some serious superiority complex' in your head so be it.
Interestingly in the most surreal of circumstances I once became aware that! If something or someone makes you feel a certain way then the way YOU feel is the way YOU feel. No amount of dissuasion is likely to make you feel different about the situation or feelings towards another
The point I was making is that as much as I like Macs as cars I cannot see past the ridiculous depreciation let alone the rest of the ownership proposition!!! It’s how I feel and my expression,you can disagree but it wont offend me, after all its only my opinion
Anyway the good news is that on the occasion I did put a deposit on a Mac I pulled out. That decision in my book appeared to be a good one for the reasons that many owners are now endorsing having suffered the pain!
Many people knock Porsche’s but as previously mentioned above I don’t throw my toys out of the pram and report it to moderators requesting the poster is banned because it hurt my feelings
I’ve been on here since 2003 and never reported anyone! You read it,agree,disagree and respond FFS that’s about the strength of it,people who can’t cope with it would be better to go and watch a quick Barclays Bank advert to relieve the stress
Oooooops a Mac owner hoping to slow down depreciation, pot calling the kettle black???
Edited by Juno on Monday 4th November 23:48
isaldiri said:
But you don't have any direct experience of ownership in order 'not to be surprised at the slightest' that they fall in value either right?
There's a lot of mud constantly slung at Mclaren it seems, primarily due to the well, rather steep let's just say, decline in value but fundamentally the cars do, and always have, drive very very well and the 675/600LTs are as good as any other modern sports car imo whether any form of 991 RS or 458/488. Quality control is and has been a major issue for Mclaren but that also comes from having to continually ramp up production as they aren't SUV makers with a sideline in sports car production (as Porsche effectively are).
I'm not in any way making excuses for Mclaren as they certainly do have plenty of issues that they seemingly refuse to actually want to sort out but the Mclaren owning experience isn't necessarily all bad as always seem to be made out here.
I agree, when they work the P11s are great driving cars. The 600LT/and 675LT are whist to fragile for continued track use in comparison to P-GT cars, are spectacular driving cars. But Taff has a point, any buss knows that easiest sale is to an existing customer. Way to many have had to many problem's and lost so much, to keep building cars with no end user and crashing prices until buyers are found is just " Nuts" in my Opinion.There's a lot of mud constantly slung at Mclaren it seems, primarily due to the well, rather steep let's just say, decline in value but fundamentally the cars do, and always have, drive very very well and the 675/600LTs are as good as any other modern sports car imo whether any form of 991 RS or 458/488. Quality control is and has been a major issue for Mclaren but that also comes from having to continually ramp up production as they aren't SUV makers with a sideline in sports car production (as Porsche effectively are).
I'm not in any way making excuses for Mclaren as they certainly do have plenty of issues that they seemingly refuse to actually want to sort out but the Mclaren owning experience isn't necessarily all bad as always seem to be made out here.
Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 5th November 08:08
Taffy66 said:
it won't surprise me that there will be no McLaren Automotive in five years time.
Wow Taffy you could have put me off my cornflakes and I was going to reply specifically to your point but I see there are now several pages of McL comment on the GT3 thread some of it from posters who may not have owned or driven a McLaren. Nothing wrong with that of course, this is PH after all, but save as to put such comments into context.For those for whom depreciation is the sine qua non of motoring McL is probably not for you. That said Porsche may not be suitable either as attested by recent posts by APOLO and myself where in the early ‘90’s we both bought nearly new white 930’s at around a third of the price someone had paid at the peak. And only a year ago the agreed value for insurance purposes of a 991.2 GT3 was £200k. If the same car has been used in the interim, you’re likely to be bid not much more than half of that in today’s market. So that’s a “loss” of £100k on a GT product in a year.
Of course, some early adopters may have paid full price for McLarens but my own experience has been to buy new 650S and 720 McLaren at significantly less than MRSP but in the knowledge that I would surely lose money on the deals. Is McLaren pricing policy and market support suspect? Yes it is. Will they still be in business in 5 years? My guess is yes albeit possibly under a different structure. As they say, the early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
The reason I buy McLaren is because they offer a driving experience that is very hard to find elsewhere. The cars are light and powerful with handling and ride of the highest standard. The aero and suspension on the Super Series are very sophisticated and add significantly to the driving pleasure. And isn’t that what it’s all about?
Remember, you can’t take it with you and no one’s last words were “I wish I had spent more time in the office”
Incidentally congratulations on the GT3RS, a lovely car and one to enjoy to the full.
APOLO1 said:
I agree, when they work the P11s are great driving cars. The 600LT/and 675LT are whist to fragile for continued track use in comparison to P-GT cars, are spectacular driving cars. But Taff has a point, any buss knows that easiest sale is to an existing customer. Way to many have had to many problem's and lost so much, to keep building cars with no end user and crashing prices until buyers are found is just " Nuts" in my Opinion.
Thanks Apolo for applying a bit of logic to this debate..Anybody to sees things in a different light is obviously business ignorant with their heads firmly stuck in the sand,,Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 5th November 08:08
Incidentally from what i've read in 100% of reviews i've read McLaren make absolutely brilliant drivers cars( Better than Porsche excluding GT products)..But when i hear of men who have ploughed their entire life's earnings into buying their dream Macca, with a £100K deposit on a PCP deal and need to get out in 6 months for unforeseen external reasons, only to be told firmly by their supplying dealer that they won't even bid on their car !..These guys are younger buyers who Macca needs to get into a life time Macca ownership journey..
Its all very well for older wealthy guys who can afford to scoff at losing vast money on a single car however no business survives long term by alienating the majority of their potential customer base.
As i said before Macca needs to completely reappraise their business model or they'll be in trouble in five years..This is my humble opinion which i'm perfectly entitled to no matter if it upsets a few wealthy owners.
Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 5th November 08:47
lowndes said:
For those for whom depreciation is the sine qua non of motoring McL is probably not for you. That said Porsche may not be suitable either as attested by recent posts by APOLO and myself where in the early ‘90’s we both bought nearly new white 930’s at around a third of the price someone had paid at the peak. And only a year ago the agreed value for insurance purposes of a 991.2 GT3 was £200k. If the same car has been used in the interim, you’re likely to be bid not much more than half of that in today’s market. So that’s a “loss” of £100k on a GT product in a year.
Of course, some early adopters may have paid full price for McLarens but my own experience has been to buy new 650S and 720 McLaren at significantly less than MRSP but in the knowledge that I would surely lose money on the deals. Is McLaren pricing policy and market support suspect? Yes it is. Will they still be in business in 5 years? My guess is yes albeit possibly under a different structure. As they say, the early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
The reason I buy McLaren is because they offer a driving experience that is very hard to find elsewhere. The cars are light and powerful with handling and ride of the highest standard. The aero and suspension on the Super Series are very sophisticated and add significantly to the driving pleasure. And isn’t that what it’s all about?
Remember, you can’t take it with you and no one’s last words were “I wish I had spent more time in the office”
Incidentally congratulations on the GT3RS, a lovely car and one to enjoy to the full.
Good Post,Of course, some early adopters may have paid full price for McLarens but my own experience has been to buy new 650S and 720 McLaren at significantly less than MRSP but in the knowledge that I would surely lose money on the deals. Is McLaren pricing policy and market support suspect? Yes it is. Will they still be in business in 5 years? My guess is yes albeit possibly under a different structure. As they say, the early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
The reason I buy McLaren is because they offer a driving experience that is very hard to find elsewhere. The cars are light and powerful with handling and ride of the highest standard. The aero and suspension on the Super Series are very sophisticated and add significantly to the driving pleasure. And isn’t that what it’s all about?
Remember, you can’t take it with you and no one’s last words were “I wish I had spent more time in the office”
Incidentally congratulations on the GT3RS, a lovely car and one to enjoy to the full.
But its not like apples to apples with regard to comparing the over list price on GT3s coming off its highs, to a car that loses around 30 40%? of its List Value before its used its first tank of fuel. In order to be like for like the GT3.2 would need to around 70-80k Trade bid for 200 Mile cars.
I agree they offer a unique driving experience. Leaving the Build QC deprecation etc aside for me the Water Mark was the 675LT. After that the Super Series became as you point out very sophisticated, bit " PlayStation" like for me. Some back ground to the set up below.
http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/engineering-solution...
Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 5th November 08:38
I like Macca's, or so I thought, had a 570S for a day as you would because they look amazing value and hit 125Mph in 8 seconds !
and while the steering feel was a revelation after a EPS Porker, and you got over the performance, I did think the car quite dull, in fact I think it's very 981 like and to that I mean it's just a nice car to use, not exciting and not special bar the looks and speed.
At the time I did not look at how much it would loose as they are great value and I did not look into how poor the dealer network was, I just drove the car and thought it was meh.
and while the steering feel was a revelation after a EPS Porker, and you got over the performance, I did think the car quite dull, in fact I think it's very 981 like and to that I mean it's just a nice car to use, not exciting and not special bar the looks and speed.
At the time I did not look at how much it would loose as they are great value and I did not look into how poor the dealer network was, I just drove the car and thought it was meh.
lowndes said:
Remember, you can’t take it with you and no one’s last words were “I wish I had spent more time in the office”
Incidentally congratulations on the GT3RS, a lovely car and one to enjoy to the full.
I don't think my wife and kids would agree with you if i pop my clogs and they find there's no money left for living because i've blown all of it on luxuries.
My RS is way better than even i expected and much more of an event to drive compared to my old GT3. Its way too early to see how it performs compared to the GT3 but what surprises me most is what i perceive to be a better steering and riding car on our crap roads..I'm still unsure why this is as i was fully prepared to tolerate a hard riding Porsche..Is it the benefits of a lighter cage or less unsprung weight i experience or something else altogether..
I'm nowhere near an expert to know why, its just what my backside is telling me in the first 200 miles..Right now i can see this being a long term keeper which i rarely say about my cars with my 458 being another very special car IMO.
Taffy66 said:
APOLO1 said:
I agree, when they work the P11s are great driving cars. The 600LT/and 675LT are whist to fragile for continued track use in comparison to P-GT cars, are spectacular driving cars. But Taff has a point, any buss knows that easiest sale is to an existing customer. Way to many have had to many problem's and lost so much, to keep building cars with no end user and crashing prices until buyers are found is just " Nuts" in my Opinion.
Thanks Apolo for applying a bit of logic to this debate..Anybody to sees things in a different light is obviously business ignorant with their heads firmly stuck in the sand,,Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 5th November 08:08
I've retired now so effectively burn cash rather than replace it,my problem my choice so I now look at things with a little less Gung Ho attitude.
We all know there’s a cost to motoring but I want to enjoy it without loosing my shirt for the above reasons
As said in previous posts it’s ok to keep pumping out cars when there is a natural market for the product but forcing a market that doesn’t exist in the short term normally ends in disaster!
I’ve always sold most of my cars privately and never really had a problem doing so with any Porsche,Ferrari or Lambo etc. I can’t imagine what the odds would be to sell a Mac privately or in fact more worryingly the fact you probably can’t even sell it back to a dealer because they won’t buy them
There’s a comment above which infers “ if you can’t stomach the losses then Macs probably not for you” The thing about that comment IMO is it’s a real shame,that’s the very attitude that’s keeping away so many potential buyers.
Surely you can’t just disregard so many obvious issues thus removing your product from the choice lists of so many potential customers, there just aren’t enough of these types of buyer to be adopting that attitude
I’m not sure what’s going on with MAC 720S but as he says in a post he has issues and it appears that they are not being dealt with. You won’t find a more passionate protector of the brand than him but even the biggest advocates now appear to be curling their toes!
Mind you something like a 570 is really starting to look a bit of a bargain so who’s knows
Taffy66 said:
APOLO1 said:
I agree, when they work the P11s are great driving cars. The 600LT/and 675LT are whist to fragile for continued track use in comparison to P-GT cars, are spectacular driving cars. But Taff has a point, any buss knows that easiest sale is to an existing customer. Way to many have had to many problem's and lost so much, to keep building cars with no end user and crashing prices until buyers are found is just " Nuts" in my Opinion.
Thanks Apolo for applying a bit of logic to this debate..Anybody to sees things in a different light is obviously business ignorant with their heads firmly stuck in the sand,,Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 5th November 08:08
Incidentally from what i've read in 100% of reviews i've read McLaren make absolutely brilliant drivers cars( Better than Porsche excluding GT products)..But when i hear of men who have ploughed their entire life's earnings into buying their dream Macca, with a £100K deposit on a PCP deal and need to get out in 6 months for unforeseen external reasons, only to be told firmly by their supplying dealer that they won't even bid on their car !..These guys are younger buyers who Macca needs to get into a life time Macca ownership journey..
Its all very well for older wealthy guys who can afford to scoff at losing vast money on a single car however no business survives long term by alienating the majority of their potential customer base.
As i said before Macca needs to completely reappraise their business model or they'll be in trouble in five years..This is my humble opinion which i'm perfectly entitled to no matter if it upsets a few wealthy owners.
Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 5th November 08:47
If you stupidly plough your life savings and on the nock to purchase,you surely can not afford the car,and like most who keep harping on about depreciation can not afford the car either,which in some ways is said as its great for some to realise a big goal in life, but only if you can safely.
As for not understanding business,give me a break!There business model is on a differant level and vision to what we all have!Yes agree on QC,service is improving as is warranties etc,.I wonder what the percentage is of unhappy owners,not many,mostly in the small world of internet forums and hearsay.
Just saying look at the inflated prices of gt models which are not sustainable as is now being proven with the plummeting prices of gt cars from the gt3 to gt2,if you dont want to loose money sell the latest and greatest,as they will only head one way,or keep it ,grin and bare ,but most importantly enjoy the car.
I have not seen a mclaren with a top strut mount firmly imbedded through the front hood,a recal of how many engines,rms,broken wheels etc etc
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff