What’s the right price for a 991.2 GT3 ?

[Porsche911R]

Yellow491 said:

now being proven with the plummeting prices of gt cars from the gt3 to gt2,if you dont want to loose money sell the latest and greatest,as they will only head one way,or keep it ,grin and bare ,but most importantly enjoy the car.

I doubt we will see a GT2 RS under list. even 997's in any year or miles are still over list today 10 years on.

So when you say plummeting prices, even a humble GT4 is still over list to buy as are Spyders.

You state people cannot afford the car. Most people CAN afford the car in this sector, but they don't like the loss in money.

if you only bought Maccas you would soon be skint. I have 5 cars, if all 5 were new RRP macca's that would sting a bit.

but buying a 2nd hand 570S is little to no risk now money wise but people in the main are not choosing to buy them even though they would not drop in value very much now. I have no idea why that is, I can only say why I did not buy one.

[Juno]

Yellow491 said:

Taffy66 said:

APOLO1 said:

I agree, when they work the P11s are great driving cars. The 600LT/and 675LT are whist to fragile for continued track use in comparison to P-GT cars, are spectacular driving cars. But Taff has a point, any buss knows that easiest sale is to an existing customer. Way to many have had to many problem's and lost so much, to keep building cars with no end user and crashing prices until buyers are found is just " Nuts" in my Opinion.

Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 5th November 08:08

Thanks Apolo for applying a bit of logic to this debate..Anybody to sees things in a different light is obviously business ignorant with their heads firmly stuck in the sand,,
Incidentally from what i've read in 100% of reviews i've read McLaren make absolutely brilliant drivers cars( Better than Porsche excluding GT products)..But when i hear of men who have ploughed their entire life's earnings into buying their dream Macca, with a £100K deposit on a PCP deal and need to get out in 6 months for unforeseen external reasons, only to be told firmly by their supplying dealer that they won't even bid on their car !..These guys are younger buyers who Macca needs to get into a life time Macca ownership journey..
Its all very well for older wealthy guys who can afford to scoff at losing vast money on a single car however no business survives long term by alienating the majority of their potential customer base.
As i said before Macca needs to completely reappraise their business model or they'll be in trouble in five years..This is my humble opinion which i'm perfectly entitled to no matter if it upsets a few wealthy owners.

Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 5th November 08:47

Taff i am not upset,but i do get rattled when people keep bashing a british company who have in 5 years woken up other manufacturers.
If you stupidly plough your life savings and on the nock to purchase,you surely can not afford the car,and like most who keep harping on about depreciation can not afford the car either,which in some ways is said as its great for some to realise a big goal in life, but only if you can safely.

As for not understanding business,give me a break!There business model is on a differant level and vision to what we all have!Yes agree on QC,service is improving as is warranties etc,.I wonder what the percentage is of unhappy owners,not many,mostly in the small world of internet forums and hearsay.
Just saying look at the inflated prices of gt models which are not sustainable as is now being proven with the plummeting prices of gt cars from the gt3 to gt2,if you dont want to loose money sell the latest and greatest,as they will only head one way,or keep it ,grin and bare ,but most importantly enjoy the car.
I have not seen a mclaren with a top strut mount firmly imbedded through the front hood,a recal of how many engines,rms,broken wheels etc etc

QUOTE: “and like most who keep harping on about depreciation can not afford the car either”

It’s so nice of people to categorise you as NOT being able to afford the car just because depreciation is an issue to you

I can accept depreciation but class myself as NOT fking stupid enough to suffer catastrophic depreciation

I the meantime I’ll be accepting applications from above posters to become my new financial advisor

[Taffy66]

To add some balance to my argument about McLaren i also dislike Porsche OPCs sales tactics which punters are forced to play to even get a fighting chance of getting a new RS for example..Its very shoddy and equally greedy forceful sales tactics and i should know this as i've had to endure it to get a special Porsche..The problem guys like me have is having to compete with the OPCs devious flippers who recover all their previous losses by flipping their RS through their OPC..As i only want my RS for driving and enjoying in the long term then i can't recoup my losses by flipping for a profit..I'm OK with this as all i ever wanted was a new RS but it sickens me when already some other lucky guys have already flipped their two month old 991.3 GT3 RS Weissach through their OPCs..
Thankfully i've just heard the full time whistle and intend to enjoy my one and only RS for a long time and leave the flippers and OPCs to play their silly allocation games.
I've never driven a Macca but i'd love to at some point as i love the cars even more than Porsche(RS apart) and will buy one at some point but only when i'm pretty confident the ownership experience catches up with the supreme driving ability of the cars.
I wish that McLaren listen to some forums opinions and create an amazing ownership experience as i'm really looking at switching brands away from Porsche..I love that McLaren are sticking solely to what they're good at keeping their brand ethos intact without to resort to jumping on the SUV gravy train to prosper.
Incidentally if i hadn't be so fortunate to secure an RS my immediate Plan B was to buy a 600LT as i think their cracking cars and superb value ATM..
I hope this clarifies my sentiments on both McLaren and Porsche.

Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 5th November 10:24

[isaldiri]

APOLO1 said:

But Taff has a point, any buss knows that easiest sale is to an existing customer. Way to many have had to many problem's and lost so much, to keep building cars with no end user and crashing prices until buyers are found is just " Nuts" in my Opinion.

We might have gone through this more than once Yes I fully agree with all that and yet Mclaren have continued to stick by the same thing for literally years and still get by though. Nuts or not it still at the moment works for them and has shown no sign of stopping... and tbh anyone buying a Mclaren these days can hardly not be aware of what he's getting into and long ago should have been getting a whopping chunk of 'list price' so this 30-40% hit off the showroom that so worries seemingly those who are allergic to the terrible d word isn't really the case either.

Taffy66 said:

Anybody to sees things in a different light is obviously business ignorant with their heads firmly stuck in the sand,,

As i said before Macca needs to completely reappraise their business model or they'll be in trouble in five years..This is my humble opinion which i'm perfectly entitled to no matter if it upsets a few wealthy owners.

As ever you completely missed my point but nevermind....

[Yellow491]

Taffy66 said:

To add some balance to my argument about i dislike Porsche OPCs sales tactics which punters are forced to play to even get a fighting chance of getting a new RS for example..Its very shoddy and equally greedy forceful sales tactics and i should know this as i've had to endure it to get a special Porsche..The problem guys like me have is having to compete with the OPCs devious flippers who recover all their previous losses by flipping their RS through their OPC..As i only want my RS for driving and enjoying in the long term then i can't recoup my losses by flipping for a profit..I'm OK with this as all i ever wanted was a new RS but it sickens me when already some other lucky guys have already flipped their two month old 991.3 GT3 RS Weissach through their OPCs..
Thankfully i've just heard the full time whistle and intend to enjoy my one and only RS for a long time and leave the flippers and OPCs to play their silly allocation games.
I've never driven a Macca but i'd love to at some point as i love the cars even more than Porsche(RS apart) and will buy one at some point but only when i'm pretty confident the ownership experience catches up with the supreme driving ability of the cars.
I wish that McLaren listen to some forums opinions and create an amazing ownership experience as i'm really looking at switching brands away from Porsche..I love that McLaren are sticking solely to what they're good at keeping their brand ethos intact without to resort to jumping on the SUV gravy train to prosper.
Incidentally if i hadn't be so fortunate to secure an RS my immediate Plan B was to buy a 600LT as i think their cracking cars and superb value ATM..
I hope this clarifies my sentiments on both McLaren and Porsche.

It does nicely taff.
I had a serious moan at my opc the other day and reading,i will not play the game,or back handers etc,its cheaper to pay overs rather than suck up to some one.I have letters from a porsche dealer about every 6 months trying to buy my 997rs,but they cant have itone deal was that i can have a new rs,but they must have my 997 in on the deal,hence i dont have one,flying kites comes to mind.

[Digga]

McLaren have done a very decent job on a number of levels. They bring something else to the market; they are not trying to recreate what is available elswhere. A McLaren is not, and does not try to be a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, or anything else. To my mind they are very likeable cars.

What they are having to do is play catch up with these very well established names. Whilst in terms of styling, driving dynamics and performance, they have clearly hit the mark, the breadth and depth of R&D and development, necessary to hit the expected QC is (perhaps understandably) lacking.

The whole dealer ethos is also a bit wonky and has served to exacerbate depreciation. I hope this may be a sign they are listening and getting things right:

Juno said:

Oooooops a Mac owner hoping to slow down depreciation, pot calling the kettle black???

[APOLO1]

isaldiri said:

APOLO1 said:

But Taff has a point, any buss knows that easiest sale is to an existing customer. Way to many have had to many problem's and lost so much, to keep building cars with no end user and crashing prices until buyers are found is just " Nuts" in my Opinion.

We might have gone through this more than once

Yes I fully agree with all that and yet Mclaren have continued to stick by the same thing for literally years and still get by though. Nuts or not it still at the moment works for them and has shown no sign of stopping... and tbh anyone buying a Mclaren these days can hardly not be aware of what he's getting into and long ago should have been getting a whopping chunk of 'list price' so this 30-40% hit off the showroom that so worries seemingly those who are allergic to the terrible d word isn't really the case either.

..

Yes i agree, looking at the Production Nos expected i know what you mean. But this is not the same as building an amount of cars in an orderly manner to a pre ordered customer spec, that are sold at list price or very close. This is a long way from just keep building as many cars as the hrs in the day will allow, and then just discounting down, until buyers are found.....lOL

Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 5th November 11:56

[Juno]

APOLO1 said:

isaldiri said:

APOLO1 said:

But Taff has a point, any buss knows that easiest sale is to an existing customer. Way to many have had to many problem's and lost so much, to keep building cars with no end user and crashing prices until buyers are found is just " Nuts" in my Opinion.

We might have gone through this more than once

Yes I fully agree with all that and yet Mclaren have continued to stick by the same thing for literally years and still get by though. Nuts or not it still at the moment works for them and has shown no sign of stopping... and tbh anyone buying a Mclaren these days can hardly not be aware of what he's getting into and long ago should have been getting a whopping chunk of 'list price' so this 30-40% hit off the showroom that so worries seemingly those who are allergic to the terrible d word isn't really the case either.

..

Yes i agree, looking at the Production Nos expected i know what you mean. But this is not the same as building an amount of cars in an orderly manner to a pre ordered customer spec, that are sold at list price or very close. This is a long way from just keep building as many cars as the hrs in the day will allow, and then just discounting down, until buyers are found.....lOL

And there you have hit the NUT squarely on the HEAD that’s the problem!

[Taffy66]

First rule of manufacturing is always build one less than you can sell..This is what Enzo Ferrari said all those years ago..Only allow a car to go down the production with a firm binding customer order attached..Merlo who is a well known Italian maker of telescopic handlers only allow a machine to commence being built if they have the ordering customers name attached form the outset..
Merlo is still owned by the original family...speaks for itself really..! Mass producing luxury goods never ends well in my experience..

Its a bit like running a successful hotel where the first rule is never take more bookings than you have rooms..This only upsets the ones left standing outside in the rain.

[IMI A]

isaldiri said:

IMI A said:

Why stay on motoring forums if you do not like what people have to say? Of course people are going to discuss losing a ton and a half on a 300k car in virtually a day.

The difference is Juno and me do not tell you not to bother us on the Porsche forum. Its a forum after all. There's some serious superiority complex prima donna going on here.

Instead of buying Macs why don't you and Mac 720s buy PH and have your own private members club? Or alternatively go and set up your own forum. dheads.com has a bit of a ring to it ....

You already have ownership of that particular forum i suspect.

All I'm saying is that it's imo just bad manners to go out of your way as juno did to bang on and on and on about depreciation (and only about that and nothing else about the cars, not ever anything to do with actually driving the bloody things for example). If that is 'some serious superiority complex' in your head so be it.

I'm obviously missing something but its always taken me longer to get there than others. Juno openly says he wants a Mac even though he already has one of the best cars on the planet?

This idea you are perpetuating i.e. you have to go through the Mcl depreciation, glitch pain, and less than average customer service experience where your car disappears for a few weeks/months before you have the PH divine right to comment on the Mac market is complete and utter nonsensical tosh but if it makes you happy of course please do carry on its a forum as previously mentioned.

Worth occasionally all of us on PH remembering we all end up in the same place one day hence rather than fencing on here maybe make the most of it and enjoy/share our nice things with friends and family.

[Porsche911R]

Taffy66 said:

Mass producing luxury goods never ends well in my experience..

Rolex do well at it.

[Digga]

Taffy66 said:

Merlo who is a well known Italian maker of telescopic handlers only allow a machine to commence being built if they have the ordering customers name attached form the outset..
Merlo is still owned by the original family...speaks for itself really..!

O/T John Iles, who originally set up Merlo UK (before Merlo bought it out) used to live in the next village to me. Only know that because I met him once at a trade show - nice chap.

[Juno]

IMA A said:

Worth occasionally all of us on PH remembering we all end up in the same place one day hence rather than fencing on here maybe make the most of it and enjoy/share our nice things with friends and family.

Yes you are correct,we all end up in the MOT department at some point and it's a pain the arse

Edited by Juno on Tuesday 5th November 14:06

[Taffy66]

Digga said:

O/T John Iles, who originally set up Merlo UK (before Merlo bought it out) used to live in the next village to me. Only know that because I met him once at a trade show - nice chap.

What a small world Digga..I love my Merlo although not everyone gets on with the hydrostatic transmission..Its a bit like the Manual versus PDK debate !..
AS the old saying goes..''You can please some people all of the time, you can please all the people some of the time, but you cannot please ALL of the people ALL of the time !''
Pistonhead forums is living testament of this M..

[Digga]

Taffy66 said:

Digga said:

O/T John Iles, who originally set up Merlo UK (before Merlo bought it out) used to live in the next village to me. Only know that because I met him once at a trade show - nice chap.

What a small world Digga..I love my Merlo although not everyone gets on with the hydrostatic transmission..Its a bit like the Manual versus PDK debate !..
AS the old saying goes..''You can please some people all of the time, you can please all the people some of the time, but you cannot please ALL of the people ALL of the time !''
Pistonhead forums is living testament of this M..

Merlo do have a good reputation from what I hear on construction side of things. Funnily enough, although a lot of firms tell us JCB stands for "Just Continuous Breakdowns", there are some product lines they get right and I think their telehandlers are one of them, but if you get on with what you've got, why change? Which brings us back to the McLaren issue; upset a client and potentially lose them for good, and possibly their friends and family too.

[Taffy66]

Digga said:

Merlo do have a good reputation from what I hear on construction side of things. Funnily enough, although a lot of firms tell us JCB stands for "Just Continuous Breakdowns", there are some product lines they get right and I think their telehandlers are one of them, but if you get on with what you've got, why change? Which brings us back to the McLaren issue; upset a client and potentially lose them for good, and possibly their friends and family too.

Yep M, JCB have an enviable reputation for making telehandlers although personally i prefer the single pedal driving and smoothness of hydrostatic..Merlo were the first and maybe still uniquely who use high grade Swedish steel for their entire boom assembly..JCBs had a reputation for using cheap Chinese steel at one point and very poor paint although things have drastically improved in recent times.

[isaldiri]

IMI A said:

I'm obviously missing something but its always taken me longer to get there than others. Juno openly says he wants a Mac even though he already has one of the best cars on the planet?

This idea you are perpetuating i.e. you have to go through the Mcl depreciation, glitch pain, and less than average customer service experience where your car disappears for a few weeks/months before you have the PH divine right to comment on the Mac market is complete and utter nonsensical tosh but if it makes you happy of course please do carry on its a forum as previously mentioned.

You're not missing something but clearly have a bloody good imagination to dream up that level of complete and utter nonsensical tosh from my earlier post!

IMI A said:

Worth occasionally all of us on PH remembering we all end up in the same place one day .

Bloody hell I certainly hope not!

[Digga]

isaldiri said:

IMI A said:

Worth occasionally all of us on PH remembering we all end up in the same place one day .

Bloody hell I certainly hope not!

I think he just meant the OPC service desk.

[Cheib]

Taffy66 said:

To add some balance to my argument about McLaren i also dislike Porsche OPCs sales tactics which punters are forced to play to even get a fighting chance of getting a new RS for example..Its very shoddy and equally greedy forceful sales tactics and i should know this as i've had to endure it to get a special Porsche..The problem guys like me have is having to compete with the OPCs devious flippers who recover all their previous losses by flipping their RS through their OPC..As i only want my RS for driving and enjoying in the long term then i can't recoup my losses by flipping for a profit..I'm OK with this as all i ever wanted was a new RS but it sickens me when already some other lucky guys have already flipped their two month old 991.3 GT3 RS Weissach through their OPCs..
Thankfully i've just heard the full time whistle and intend to enjoy my one and only RS for a long time and leave the flippers and OPCs to play their silly allocation games.
I've never driven a Macca but i'd love to at some point as i love the cars even more than Porsche(RS apart) and will buy one at some point but only when i'm pretty confident the ownership experience catches up with the supreme driving ability of the cars.
I wish that McLaren listen to some forums opinions and create an amazing ownership experience as i'm really looking at switching brands away from Porsche..I love that McLaren are sticking solely to what they're good at keeping their brand ethos intact without to resort to jumping on the SUV gravy train to prosper.
Incidentally if i hadn't be so fortunate to secure an RS my immediate Plan B was to buy a 600LT as i think their cracking cars and superb value ATM..
I hope this clarifies my sentiments on both McLaren and Porsche.

Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 5th November 10:24

I am in a similar frame of mind to you Taffy but got off the merry go round when I got my GT3. From now on fun cars are going to be older 911’s or maybe something from another brand but I am in no hurry. Currently enjoying learning to be a better driver and getting a bit closer to the cars capabilities!

I was happy with my GT3 anyway and then the GSM left my OPC very suddenly and was replaced by one from a Porsche GB OPC....brought a few customers with him etc so really couldn’t be arsed with finding out what the new rules were going to be! ``

[Yellow491]

Hey brain wave lets get jcb and merlo to manage the arabs and woking,win win