991.2 GT3 RS batch '2' GPF?
Discussion
Digga said:
It's short-sighted and diverts a lot of 'real, driving' money elsewhere.
IMHO the image of Porsche and, especially the GT products, rests heavily on their prevalence at track days, where they ably demonstrate the race-derived dynamic performance, as well as (normally) build quality too.
You take these cars off the track and lock them away in a speculators storage unit and the brand has almost zero benefit from them, other than the vague wow factor of price alone.
Surely this flipping helps prop up the residuals which in turn suits the lucky owners? IMHO the image of Porsche and, especially the GT products, rests heavily on their prevalence at track days, where they ably demonstrate the race-derived dynamic performance, as well as (normally) build quality too.
You take these cars off the track and lock them away in a speculators storage unit and the brand has almost zero benefit from them, other than the vague wow factor of price alone.
Taffy66 said:
I agree, there have been quite a few flipped RS Weissach pack cars..A disproportionate number of them are PTS cars which is even more disappointing in my view..However this doesn't tell the whole story as a few others would have been sold under the radar..
Porsche are having too much of a short term view as in the long term all this blatant sanctioned flipping by the same flippers over and over again will cause irreparable damage to Porsche's maker of enthusiasts sports cars.
The worst part is some OPCs are in on it which shows that Porsche HQ secretly encourage flipping in the mistaken belief it'll lead to more profit for them.
That’s the weird thing Taffy,...I don’t think it does lead to more profit ? They’ll sell these cars regardless ! I’ve been told they get worked up if the cars get sold outside the network...not such an issue if it’s kept in the family though. Which i guess is about money. Porsche are having too much of a short term view as in the long term all this blatant sanctioned flipping by the same flippers over and over again will cause irreparable damage to Porsche's maker of enthusiasts sports cars.
The worst part is some OPCs are in on it which shows that Porsche HQ secretly encourage flipping in the mistaken belief it'll lead to more profit for them.
I think the problem is that OPC’s and Porsche GB ultimately answer to different “gods” and have different agendas. The former will do whatever they can within their franchise agreements to make money and a few assuming they don’t get caught will do some things they shouldn’t. Porsche GB have two regional managers managing/keeping an eye on the OPC’s....one North one South....that tells you how much resource they devote to managing them.
APOLO1 said:
Digga said:
tterly wrong in my opinion.
Not a corrosive to the marque as the issues McLaren have, but nonetheless, not good for image. These cars need to be seen being driven and, best of all, driven on track.
If you buy a sports car, you ought to be able to afford to use and maintain it, especially a limited availability car where there are plenty would would have your allocation and do so.
But don't forget lots of these cars do get driven on track, also peoples circumstances change over time these cars were ordered almost 12 Months ago in some cases. In addition to not everyone was lucky to get the call, I know to lots that had to buy a right good few cars over the past few years to get one. One is going up next week the owner has been relocated back to HK for his work. If his car makes the ask he will still be around 20k off pocket based on what he lost on other cars. Don't see how its remotely corrosive to the marque, can think of plenty of other makes that would like to have demand exceed supply on there products, and not the other way round. If anything its the exact opposite ie the knock on effect to other product within the range.Not a corrosive to the marque as the issues McLaren have, but nonetheless, not good for image. These cars need to be seen being driven and, best of all, driven on track.
If you buy a sports car, you ought to be able to afford to use and maintain it, especially a limited availability car where there are plenty would would have your allocation and do so.
As for being corrosive to the marque, suppose an individual who'd never bought a Porsche, but had long admired the GT models came into some money. Does not matter how; bonus, inheritance, cashing in an investment etc. etc. there is NO CHANCE they could buy a GT Porsche, even if they did fully intend to use it. They will simply either buy used or, very, very possibly (and here's where it affects the brand) go to another manufacturer.
Digga said:
orced sales are regrettable and understandable, but we all know a lot of these are not that.
As for being corrosive to the marque, suppose an individual who'd never bought a Porsche, but had long admired the GT models came into some money. Does not matter how; bonus, inheritance, cashing in an investment etc. etc. there is NO CHANCE they could buy a GT Porsche, even if they did fully intend to use it. They will simply either buy used or, very, very possibly (and here's where it affects the brand) go to another manufacturer.
I agree that some set out to take a chance that the market will hold and that they can make a few $$$$, but I don't see how you can hit everyone with the flip stick every time one comes up for sale. Also don't forget its the "Market that sets the price always has always will, not the seller. If the Market goes the other way.......As for being corrosive to the marque, suppose an individual who'd never bought a Porsche, but had long admired the GT models came into some money. Does not matter how; bonus, inheritance, cashing in an investment etc. etc. there is NO CHANCE they could buy a GT Porsche, even if they did fully intend to use it. They will simply either buy used or, very, very possibly (and here's where it affects the brand) go to another manufacturer.
As for someone who's never brought a Porsche before, is that not just like any other Buss would do with any other product as in looking after its best customers first. Also in my opinion much better to sell to a customer with some known buying history, that way less risk of selling to someone that has none and is just in it for the $$$.
Digga said:
It's short-sighted and diverts a lot of 'real, driving' money elsewhere.
IMHO the image of Porsche and, especially the GT products, rests heavily on their prevalence at track days, where they ably demonstrate the race-derived dynamic performance, as well as (normally) build quality too.
You take these cars off the track and lock them away in a speculators storage unit and the brand has almost zero benefit from them, other than the vague wow factor of price alone.
Afraid I have to totally disagree with that. The current image of GT product (especially in the UK) rests on their ability to command significant premiums once being driven out of the showroom and being either depreciation proof or cost less than other sports cars to do so. IMHO the image of Porsche and, especially the GT products, rests heavily on their prevalence at track days, where they ably demonstrate the race-derived dynamic performance, as well as (normally) build quality too.
You take these cars off the track and lock them away in a speculators storage unit and the brand has almost zero benefit from them, other than the vague wow factor of price alone.
The mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
isaldiri said:
Afraid I have to totally disagree with that. The current image of GT product (especially in the UK) rests on their ability to command significant premiums once being driven out of the showroom and being either depreciation proof or cost less than other sports cars to do so.
The mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
I would say you are totally right isaldiri.The mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
As for the huge money PTS car it's nice because it's unusual but i don't think its for me. I would be happy with Lizard, Miami or PTS rubystone.
isaldiri said:
Digga said:
It's short-sighted and diverts a lot of 'real, driving' money elsewhere.
IMHO the image of Porsche and, especially the GT products, rests heavily on their prevalence at track days, where they ably demonstrate the race-derived dynamic performance, as well as (normally) build quality too.
You take these cars off the track and lock them away in a speculators storage unit and the brand has almost zero benefit from them, other than the vague wow factor of price alone.
Afraid I have to totally disagree with that. The current image of GT product (especially in the UK) rests on their ability to command significant premiums once being driven out of the showroom and being either depreciation proof or cost less than other sports cars to do so. IMHO the image of Porsche and, especially the GT products, rests heavily on their prevalence at track days, where they ably demonstrate the race-derived dynamic performance, as well as (normally) build quality too.
You take these cars off the track and lock them away in a speculators storage unit and the brand has almost zero benefit from them, other than the vague wow factor of price alone.
The mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
I accept that due to changing and unforeseen personal circumstances(divorce, health, relocation, redundancy etc) accounts for a few of these cars being flipped..However this is certainly not the case in most instances as the same people flip over and over again..A genuine enthusiast will target his one and only dream car and keep it to enjoy and drive over a long term..These are the real winners IMO who manage to get his dream GT Porsche at list and just keep it and get off the 'i must have the latest, shiniest GT car everytime' merry go round circus.
isaldiri said:
Afraid I have to totally disagree with that. The current image of GT product (especially in the UK) rests on their ability to command significant premiums once being driven out of the showroom and being either depreciation proof or cost less than other sports cars to do so.
The mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
ThisThe mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
cayman-black said:
isaldiri said:
Afraid I have to totally disagree with that. The current image of GT product (especially in the UK) rests on their ability to command significant premiums once being driven out of the showroom and being either depreciation proof or cost less than other sports cars to do so.
The mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
I would say you are totally right isaldiri.The mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
As for the huge money PTS car it's nice because it's unusual but i don't think its for me. I would be happy with Lizard, Miami or PTS rubystone.
APOLO1 said:
Digga said:
orced sales are regrettable and understandable, but we all know a lot of these are not that.
As for being corrosive to the marque, suppose an individual who'd never bought a Porsche, but had long admired the GT models came into some money. Does not matter how; bonus, inheritance, cashing in an investment etc. etc. there is NO CHANCE they could buy a GT Porsche, even if they did fully intend to use it. They will simply either buy used or, very, very possibly (and here's where it affects the brand) go to another manufacturer.
I agree that some set out to take a chance that the market will hold and that they can make a few $$$$, but I don't see how you can hit everyone with the flip stick every time one comes up for sale. Also don't forget its the "Market that sets the price always has always will, not the seller. If the Market goes the other way.......As for being corrosive to the marque, suppose an individual who'd never bought a Porsche, but had long admired the GT models came into some money. Does not matter how; bonus, inheritance, cashing in an investment etc. etc. there is NO CHANCE they could buy a GT Porsche, even if they did fully intend to use it. They will simply either buy used or, very, very possibly (and here's where it affects the brand) go to another manufacturer.
As for someone who's never brought a Porsche before, is that not just like any other Buss would do with any other product as in looking after its best customers first. Also in my opinion much better to sell to a customer with some known buying history, that way less risk of selling to someone that has none and is just in it for the $$$.
I think the whole situation stinks; I’ve given up on the circus; delighted to be out of the race TBH
Juno said:
cayman-black said:
isaldiri said:
Afraid I have to totally disagree with that. The current image of GT product (especially in the UK) rests on their ability to command significant premiums once being driven out of the showroom and being either depreciation proof or cost less than other sports cars to do so.
The mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
I would say you are totally right isaldiri.The mad scrabble for cars is purely a function of the perception they are free money and hard to get. It has little to nothing to do with the prevalence at trackdays and dynamic performance as the latter had always existed without anything like the current premiums/clawing out each others eyes for allocations. The amount of 'real driving money' simply isn't that big to really factor.
As for the huge money PTS car it's nice because it's unusual but i don't think its for me. I would be happy with Lizard, Miami or PTS rubystone.
Never been part of the silly scams,mugs game!
RSVP911 said:
Cheib said:
This is the other PTS car currently for sale...Slate Grey. Up at OPC Mid-Sussex but they haven’t put it on the official AUC site for some reason
https://www.sytner.co.uk/car-search/10965218-13099...
That is stunning - it’s a shame owner / OPC are only in it for the quick £ - would break my heart to sell that https://www.sytner.co.uk/car-search/10965218-13099...
Cheib said:
RSVP911 said:
Cheib said:
This is the other PTS car currently for sale...Slate Grey. Up at OPC Mid-Sussex but they haven’t put it on the official AUC site for some reason
https://www.sytner.co.uk/car-search/10965218-13099...
That is stunning - it’s a shame owner / OPC are only in it for the quick £ - would break my heart to sell that https://www.sytner.co.uk/car-search/10965218-13099...
Cheib said:
RSVP911 said:
Cheib said:
This is the other PTS car currently for sale...Slate Grey. Up at OPC Mid-Sussex but they haven’t put it on the official AUC site for some reason
https://www.sytner.co.uk/car-search/10965218-13099...
That is stunning - it’s a shame owner / OPC are only in it for the quick £ - would break my heart to sell that https://www.sytner.co.uk/car-search/10965218-13099...
hunter 66 said:
Nice Juno .
Got to hand it to Porsche though ......
Scramble for the initial batch , then wait , as maybe , maybe not ............. then WP and PTS to create another hubris with essentially the same car .....the other manufacturers should take a lesson
I would not touch a petrol filter car over a batch 1 car and the £50k saving you get with it.Got to hand it to Porsche though ......
Scramble for the initial batch , then wait , as maybe , maybe not ............. then WP and PTS to create another hubris with essentially the same car .....the other manufacturers should take a lesson
hunter 66 said:
Nice Juno .
Got to hand it to Porsche though ......
Scramble for the initial batch , then wait , as maybe , maybe not ............. then WP and PTS to create another hubris with essentially the same car .....the other manufacturers should take a lesson
If this is accurate and if I’m reading it right there were only 81 GT3RS’s registered in 2019, not all WP I guessGot to hand it to Porsche though ......
Scramble for the initial batch , then wait , as maybe , maybe not ............. then WP and PTS to create another hubris with essentially the same car .....the other manufacturers should take a lesson
That does make the WP RS quite a rare beast which must help it hold its Unicorn position as the flag ship model in the 991 line up
I’m sure if Porsche made 300 they would have all sold so they do seem quite sensible in their approach to volume and demand, not so with many other manufacturers
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