911 ST backdate....

[Yellow491]

RDMcG said:

The problem is that there is no official spec for an ST. It was not a proper Porsche destination. There is a lot of variation from car to car and not even agreement as to how many were built. There is an outstanding article in the current edition of 000 magazine that lists the myriad of kits and variants that were supplied. I believe it is subscription only ( I subscribe) our for anyone serious about this variant it is a very good resource.

I owned a factory st 471/491for some time,it had a spec,there is a agreement of how many factory cars,but customer kits is a different beast.

[Ragatha christie]

JulierPass said:

Go and talk to Tuthill, that's your best bet. You will end up spending circa 300 grand though and there's a lot more interesting things that can be done with that kind of cash!

300k is massive money.. love to know what spec that was?

[Yellow491]

Ragatha christie said:

JulierPass said:

Go and talk to Tuthill, that's your best bet. You will end up spending circa 300 grand though and there's a lot more interesting things that can be done with that kind of cash!

300k is massive money.. love to know what spec that was?

A 100% correct 2.5ltr st engine will set you back at least 120 to 150k£ now,depending how carried away you get,300k is a easy target to achieve if its to get close to the real deal.

[Ragatha christie]

Yellow491 said:

A 100% correct 2.5ltr st engine will set you back at least 120 to 150k£ now,depending how carried away you get,300k is a easy target to achieve if its to get close to the real deal.

I can believe it..

[Cheib]

£300k puts into perspective Olive bought from Sports Purpose which was a Tuthill car and was up for circa £180k...obviously might not have been a £300k spec but even so.

[Taffy66]

Cheib said:

£300k puts into perspective Olive bought from Sports Purpose which was a Tuthill car and was up for circa £180k...obviously might not have been a £300k spec but even so.

Even if i had a spare £300k to spend on one i'd buy something else..At that level of investment its better to buy something already built and save over a £100K..The blood orange JZM car up for £102k had over £150k spent on it by the previous owner as an example..If i buy one i'll be looking at someone's cast off before attempting it myself..

[blackmamba]

The JZM car is nothing like an “ST” and I think the value should reflect it. I don’t doubt a lot of money was spent on the car but it’s a very individual spec with limited appeal mechanically and cosmetically.

I would rather pay more for a car with a period correct chassis and mechanical spec.

[Taffy66]

blackmamba said:

The JZM car is nothing like an “ST” and I think the value should reflect it. I don’t doubt a lot of money was spent on the car but it’s a very individual spec with limited appeal mechanically and cosmetically.

I would rather pay more for a car with a period correct chassis and mechanical spec.

I agree with you in it being an individual choice hence the reason i never made an offer on it..I was merely using it as an example on how difficult it is to recoup the investment on any Backdate 911..I much prefer a Slate grey narrow body 'Le Mans' look with houndstooth seats and back seats..Backdates are an extremely individual thing as you say..

[Porsche911R]

Taffy66 said:

I agree with you in it being an individual choice hence the reason i never made an offer on it..I was merely using it as an example on how difficult it is to recoup the investment on any Backdate 911..I much prefer a Slate grey narrow body 'Le Mans' look with houndstooth seats and back seats..Backdates are an extremely individual thing as you say..

Do you not fancy a nice 73 911 S ?

If I had the cash and wanted a old car that would be it at the money people are talking.
Don’t buy a fake :-)

[IMI A]

Porsche911R said:

Taffy66 said:

I agree with you in it being an individual choice hence the reason i never made an offer on it..I was merely using it as an example on how difficult it is to recoup the investment on any Backdate 911..I much prefer a Slate grey narrow body 'Le Mans' look with houndstooth seats and back seats..Backdates are an extremely individual thing as you say..

Do you not fancy a nice 73 911 S ?

If I had the cash and wanted a old car that would be it at the money people are talking.
Don’t buy a fake :-)

Tailoring an aircooled by sending it to automotive Saville Row doesn’t make it a fake. It makes it a 50 yr marriage and you’d possibly be missing out on all that fun and enjoyment. To buy a 911 and not modify to your own taste unthinkable for me. Spent 3 months in UK and put 4000 miles on a modified air cooled. Best car I’ve experienced even at 30 mph

[Taffy66]

IMI A said:

Tailoring an aircooled by sending it to automotive Saville Row doesn’t make it a fake. It makes it a 50 yr marriage and you’d possibly be missing out on all that fun and enjoyment. To buy a 911 and not modify to your own taste unthinkable for me. Spent 3 months in UK and put 4000 miles on a modified air cooled. Best car I’ve experienced even at 30 mph

You've answered the question directed at me better then i could have..I have no interest whatsoever in having an original collecter 911 in my garage which drives like a 50 year old car..All i want is a narrow bodied air cooled 911 with updated suspension,brakes and tyres.My perfect AC 911 would weigh 1000Kg and have a max 300HP or even 250HP would be fine..

[Yellow491]

Taffy,investment is the wrong word for a hotrod,it also depends on the sum of the parts fitted.
If you could find a nice s at the right money to turn into some sort of safe house for your spend,is not a bad move.Nice mods can be done with out spoiling the original.
My old 2.4s that i converted to st,never owed me a penny and could be reversed at any time,but much better car as a st though.Sold now i believe.

Does robbo not have his yellow st for sale,thats a cracking car will depreciate less than you worrying about the state of the 991rs and gt3 market all over the winter with the normalisation of the latest and greatest.

[Taffy66]

Yellow491 said:

Taffy,investment is the wrong word for a hotrod,it also depends on the sum of the parts fitted.
If you could find a nice s at the right money to turn into some sort of safe house for your spend,is not a bad move.Nice mods can be done with out spoiling the original.
My old 2.4s that i converted to st,never owed me a penny and could be reversed at any time,but much better car as a st though.Sold now i believe.

Does robbo not have his yellow st for sale,thats a cracking car will depreciate less than you worrying about the state of the 991rs and gt3 market all over the winter with the normalisation of the latest and greatest.

I have to think about the depreciation side of my cars as i'm not a multi millionaire hotel magnate.;) A nice 72 S is £175k, can't the same be done with a nice 911E which is a fraction of the price for whatever reason..

[blackmamba]

I wouldn’t automatically dismiss a 50 year old classic as not being good to drive - old 911 values are where they are because they are fantastic to drive, fast enough and very usable. The 2.7RS is where it is for those reasons and has a power to weight ratio in the range you are looking for.

I am not suggesting they can’t be improved but try one before you dismiss an old, unmodified 911 or a period correct sports purpose build. Should tick all your boxes and a safer place to put your “investment”.

[Cheib]

RHD S at Sports Purpose £180k

https://www.sports-purpose.com/cars-for-sale/1968-...

From what I can tell S’s range in price from around £100k for a LHD car that’s not 100% to close to £200k for a RHD S as so few RHD cars were made. I met a bloke who owns an S and has done several three to four month road trips in his...London to Sydney etc!

I am definitely considering going to explore going the “original” route and am going to drive two or three older cars in Sep that are owned by a couple of mates. £300k for a Tuthill is the wrong price as far as I am concerned but I am sure people pay it...because it’s half the price of a Singer. Tuthill’s Insta has one of their recent cars on it

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0WhEzhlnZr/?igshid=15...

[Porsche911R]

Taffy66 said:

I have to think about the depreciation side of my cars as i'm not a multi millionaire hotel magnate.;) A nice 72 S is £175k, can't the same be done with a nice 911E which is a fraction of the price for whatever reason..

a classic 911 set to tarmac rally specs on modern Avons and some cheap koni shocks is a great little drive. you don't need a 300bhp backdate on ex-tec sus.

911E yep nice. just a 911S is cooler.

https://www.total911.com/classic-icons-porsche-911...

these look so much cooler than a rep....(faker,bista) :-)

why buy a G and make it look like a 73 RS ?

[Porsche911R]

IMI A said:

Tailoring an aircooled by sending it to automotive Saville Row doesn’t make it a fake. It makes it a 50 yr marriage and you’d possibly be missing out on all that fun and enjoyment. To buy a 911 and not modify to your own taste unthinkable for me. Spent 3 months in UK and put 4000 miles on a modified air cooled. Best car I’ve experienced even at 30 mph

you have a hot rod, not a backdate rep, worlds apart imo.

[ras62]

Taffy66 said:

Yellow491 said:

Taffy,investment is the wrong word for a hotrod,it also depends on the sum of the parts fitted.
If you could find a nice s at the right money to turn into some sort of safe house for your spend,is not a bad move.Nice mods can be done with out spoiling the original.
My old 2.4s that i converted to st,never owed me a penny and could be reversed at any time,but much better car as a st though.Sold now i believe.

Does robbo not have his yellow st for sale,thats a cracking car will depreciate less than you worrying about the state of the 991rs and gt3 market all over the winter with the normalisation of the latest and greatest.

I have to think about the depreciation side of my cars as i'm not a multi millionaire hotel magnate.;) A nice 72 S is £175k, can't the same be done with a nice 911E which is a fraction of the price for whatever reason..

911E probably a nicer raod car by most accounts but you really do need to go and drive a few. They can be sweet or sour or anything inbetween depending on what they are. Hardcore 911 isn't for everyone and for this reason I would caution on chasing numbers for power or weight until you know what it is you want and how you intend to use it.

[hot66]

Ive had my 2.4S for a long time . I've modified to suit my tastes as the years have gone on .. twin plug high comp 2.4 S engine with lightweight flywheel etc ( approx 220 bhp) , elephant racing bushes, rsr raised front spindles, alloy rear arms, modified bilstein shocks , 3.2 brakes etc . Looks completly stock though and pretty much all mods reversible as have kept all the original parts. Even now I have a few things Id like to change, although ironicaly with the suspension I'd like to do a bit more work to 'calm' it down a bit and make it more neutral.

I drive out with a lot of mates in early cars .. reality on the road is there is very little between them all in terms of cross country pace .. there is though a big difference in the way they deliver that performance. Mate has a fully restored 2.4E , loverly quick car , but its power delivery is quite linear. His 14 yr old son came out in my 2.4S the other day and was surprised at what he thought how much quicker my car was ... .what he was actualy feeling was the kick when an S actaully comes on cam at about 5000 rpm and it goes off like a rocket (admitedly my S is quicker than the E anyway, but its not night and day in a drag race ) . Its this that makes me love an S so much over the E or T.

The point being a nice early car can feel very different from another. It comes down to your taste. A lazy 3.2 from a later car could potentially ruin the whole feel of an early car .. also a 130bhp 2.2T could to some feel pretty flat.

I love a high revving screamer , but i live on the edge of the dales so have the benefit of stunning roads

[Mintbird]

Late to the party here. I took a very nice and original 67 SWB 912 , took on the small areas that did have some rust, gave it a decent repaint in its original color and sent it to twinspark RACING, the Singer agent for Europe. Thats when things got a bit silly....
I was tripping over fat-arsed 911s everywhere so i figured it would be fun to keep it arch-less

Long story short: Complete Elephant racing street suspension ( retaining torsion bars, not coilover) and oil cooler kit.
PMB SWB S-brakes. Complete new wiring loom. New braids 15s roundbout on P6000s.
3.2 Shortstroke MFI with S cams and high butterflies ( 280-300ish bhp), Classic
retrofit CDi box, etc.
Every single upgrade Wevo box freshly built with a ZF slippy diff ( 5 figures bill)
Complete bespoke interior
SSis.

everything is new or refurbished, no cost spared.

Its about 1000 kiloes so it should be quite nippy...


Its probably cost me a number starting with a 2... however as my girlfriend recently decided she wanted a huge house I might have to sell it... I`ll probably only get back 60% at best of what Ive spent though... worlds most expensive 912 SWB?

Edited by Mintbird on Friday 26th July 13:54

Edited by Mintbird on Friday 26th July 13:55

Edited by Mintbird on Friday 26th July 14:24