911 ST backdate....

[PS2018]

Very interesting @hot66
Lovely car @mintbird

[IMI A]

Porsche911R said:

IMI A said:

Tailoring an aircooled by sending it to automotive Saville Row doesn’t make it a fake. It makes it a 50 yr marriage and you’d possibly be missing out on all that fun and enjoyment. To buy a 911 and not modify to your own taste unthinkable for me. Spent 3 months in UK and put 4000 miles on a modified air cooled. Best car I’ve experienced even at 30 mph

you have a hot rod, not a backdate rep, worlds apart imo.

Ah the point I was trying to make not very well was everyone’s perfect 911 is very different because we all use them differently. If I was going for a modded 911 Saville Row build it would be a 964 lightened as much as poss but touring spec a bit like Steve Rances car but less aggressive on the suspension set up in Crayon or Met Black with a 3.8 torque monster and RS fast road set up with enough compliance not to be thrown off the road. I’d maybe also 3.8 RS the bodywork to wide body for more stability as with my ham fisted style of driving I’d be swapping ends regularly in a hot rod 964. The issue for us was a car came up albeit in yellow and 993 with similar spec for half the money it would cost to today hence was a no brainer. Whilst the back date idea great I think 964 and 993 have a charm of their own and really shouldn’t be messed with unless you want to do it properly like Singer. The blue 912 or 911E etc would be what I’d go for if I wanted a pre impact bumper hot rod. But in reality I’d probably just buy the best 2.4s out there like others have suggested with a few choice chassis mods. Hot66’s 2.4s amazing.

[Ragatha christie]

Mintbird said:

Its probably cost me a number starting with a 2... however as my girlfriend recently decided she wanted a huge house I might have to sell it... I`ll probably only get back 60% at best of what Ive spent though...

Mintbird..its looks fab... that engine wow! its just the sort of thing I want! If you going to loose X amount by selling.. is it not worth keeping? of course I would be biting your hand off if the price is right

[Mintbird]

yeah the butterflies are period correct FIA reproductions done by the best... not much change out of 6k.. and I think the price have gone up since then. The MFI pump has been rebuilt to 3.2 shortstroke spec by Rugen Germany- he is doing work for Porsche! Again not cheap!

Engine is done by Richard Chamberlain of CTR developments...

Ive not skimped on anything! Pay once cry once...
its too much to tell really but I think I got all invoices available upon request.

I really dont want to sell it but I got 3 other projects ( sigh) to tidy up and a big house purchase on top of that...

what is it with women and houses!

Edited by Mintbird on Friday 26th July 15:13

[Ragatha christie]

Mintbird PM me

That house is beautiful

[Taffy66]

This thread is way surpassing my wildest expectations in terms of being educational..Based on these pics Mintbird, you need to change your girlfriend and keep this blue beauty..All IMMHO of course..

PS I hope she doesn't read P'heads.

[Mintbird]

Ragatha christie said:

Mintbird PM me

That house is beautiful

you dont seem to permit emails for some reason : - )
see if you can contact me instead.

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

Mintbird said:

Ragatha christie said:

Mintbird PM me

That house is beautiful

you dont seem to permit emails for some reason : - )
see if you can contact me instead.

Axel, I have similar issues with PM on PH, if you are not UK based there are issues with sending messages. I can vouch for the Mintbird 912 hotrod, it really is a thing of beauty.
Best of luck with the house / car, although naturally I tend towards the 911 taking priority (give her a good slap )

[Mintbird]

Taffy66 said:

This thread is way surpassing my wildest expectations in terms of being educational..Based on these pics Mintbird, you need to change your girlfriend and keep this blue beauty..All IMMHO of course..

PS I hope she doesn't read P'heads.

Its a Passion for me, I dont regret it one bit as its a very fun process , obviously
numbers go absolutely crazy but making something that bit extra special , like spending 10k on an interior or 50k on an engine is just enthusiasm taken to the redline. Most people install a dirty old SC or a plain boggo 3.2 Carrera in the back and thats fine, but for me the smell, the sound and the induction noise and response of that MFI just screams 70s racing - its a work of art whenever you open the engine bay as well....id park it with the lid open and open a frosty pint and a garden chair and just look at it!

added some photos from earlier in the restoration and build process. obviously things are hanging around a bit but just for fun.

[Cheib]

Mintbird said:

you dont seem to permit emails for some reason : - )
see if you can contact me instead.

Could you PM me details too please ? Many thanks.

[RSVP911]

blackmamba said:

The JZM car is nothing like an “ST” and I think the value should reflect it. I don’t doubt a lot of money was spent on the car but it’s a very individual spec with limited appeal mechanically and cosmetically.

I would rather pay more for a car with a period correct chassis and mechanical spec.

+1 !

[SRT Hellcat]

a truly stunning motor mintbird

[WizzBang]

Taffy66 said:

...A nice 72 S is £175k, can't the same be done with a nice 911E which is a fraction of the price for whatever reason..

Yep, I think it can. I’m starting at an even lower point with a 1969T 2.2 litre (1970 MY).

Got it a few years back and shortly after, had a carb fire. Seems fairly common with Zeniths, so rather than rebuild, went to JAZ and replaced with brand new PMOs (£5k). Oh what a lovely sound.

Impressed with Steve at JAZ, so asked him what I should do next - I wanted to increase bhp and was looking at spending £15k-£20k. Steve said engine is good, better to spend money elsewhere and said just £4k on rebuild/mod of suspension/brakes/steering would be a better thing to do. He races early Porsches and knows a thing or two so I went with his advice. The result was transformational; what an improvement and it's now so enjoyable to drive. 20mph to 90mph, it’s all fun.

I’m with you on the narrow body. For me, having an early body car is better in my mind than having a later bodied car modified to look like an early car. However, I wouldn’t say no to a Singer.

Anyway, the engine will be rebuilt to either E or S spec. The 2.2 engines are mag-cased, so a great starting point, and there’s loads of options re crank, pistons, cylinders & heads so you can build (or have someone build for you) just about whatever you like. My car will be to my spec, with expert opinion thrown in, and starting with a lowly T, I’ll finish with something super hot for around the same price as a mediocre E or a junk S (starting with a sorted E or S is great but £££).

If you haven't already, get onto Amazon and order:
1. Wayne Dempsey - How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines:
2. Bruce Anderson - Porsche 911 Performance Handbook

And then sit back and dream of that car you wish to build…


My ride pre-mods...

Edited by WizzBang on Friday 26th July 22:01

Edited by WizzBang on Friday 26th July 22:03

Edited by WizzBang on Friday 26th July 23:45

[Taffy66]

Thanks Wizzbang on a fantastically educational post...Its really whetting my appetite as i really want one to my spec for a sensible budget,,Love your car as much as Mintbird's blue beauty...These posts are pointing me in the direction i need to go..

[Porsche911R]

Taffy66 said:

Thanks Wizzbang on a fantastically educational post...Its really whetting my appetite as i really want one to my spec for a sensible budget,,Love your car as much as Mintbird's blue beauty...These posts are pointing me in the direction i need to go..

Are you at silver stone today ?

I need to talk you out of it :-)

Most of these builds cost £200k min price and people will pick holes in them till the cows come home, and then cannot sell them for £60k.

Goto luft, or today at Silverstone, 95% cars there are poor.

Most reps are built by people who cannot afford the real thing, but then realise they cannot afford to build a good rep either, most are really tat.

The company who make then build to a price also, as they cannot spend the time on them at the cost they sell at, most again look a bit tat in the £120k range.

Hence people are saying it is £300k, with a min £200k spend imo.

Not a £70k project !

The “sensible budget” thing is not possible,

Buy a real car, or buy some one else £150k build for £60k

[MDL111]

I am not sure where I posted it, but if you want one, look on mobile.de, there are quite often interesting looking cars for sale - some period correct with papers - which I suspect will hold value better than a backdate type car

[Cheib]

This car looks very interesting a low mileage S with Factory “Rallye” and “Sport Kit II” options...I am a long way from an expert but can’t remember seeing an S with those specs before. Sound interesting! Much better place for your money than a £250k restomod and I reckon would be a fantastic drive,

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mo19/monterey/l...

[C4ME]

Another example for ideas. Built on a period base with period parts rather than a backdated restomod.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v...


https://cprclassic.com/media/36

Edited by C4ME on Saturday 27th July 15:05

[Mintbird]

Porsche911R said:

Taffy66 said:

Thanks Wizzbang on a fantastically educational post...Its really whetting my appetite as i really want one to my spec for a sensible budget,,Love your car as much as Mintbird's blue beauty...These posts are pointing me in the direction i need to go..

Are you at silver stone today ?

I need to talk you out of it :-)

Most of these builds cost £200k min price and people will pick holes in them till the cows come home, and then cannot sell them for £60k.

Goto luft, or today at Silverstone, 95% cars there are poor.

Most reps are built by people who cannot afford the real thing, but then realise they cannot afford to build a good rep either, most are really tat.

The company who make then build to a price also, as they cannot spend the time on them at the cost they sell at, most again look a bit tat in the £120k range.

Hence people are saying it is £300k, with a min £200k spend imo.

Not a £70k project !

The “sensible budget” thing is not possible,

Buy a real car, or buy some one else £150k build for £60k

Ok I`ll bite...Im not sure if you are refering to me in particular or just in general -
I could easily have bought a bonafide original S of any vintage for what Ive spent on mine, cost was not the issue!

I would also challenge the notion that there are all these bonafide 200k builds around that struggle to sell for 60k.
thats bullst! What you have is alot of cheap backdates with the absolutely minimum spent on em which is then hoyed into the classifieds for 80-100k and looking for a sucker!

You can barely build a proper MFI high butterfly engine incl. donor engine for 60k!

As for comparing it to a "real" say 911E or maybe a ropey S....Then you would have a 50 year old car with the reliability to go with that, and obviously horsepower etc wouldnt be all that.
I wanted the oldschool short wheel base experience with a Light SWB SHELL, but I wanted a NEW wiring loom, NEW CDI box, NEW engine with added poke, along with Period correct MFI and FIA High Butterflies.
So i Sourced the best shell I could find, installed a brand new loom, a STREET RESTORATION SUSPENSION complete kit from Elephant Racing ( really nice quality) , the best SWB brakes I could find, a 915 box with a ZF diff and everything Wevo had including block inserts - I wanted a 60s smashing interior and new dials new everything!

For me it was about creating a Short Wheel base 911 with its inherent lightness, a big powerful MFI engine in the back, and an interior that would be an absolute Joy to open the door to. The next 20 years with this car should be changing the oil and rowing the gears, it should be run on buttons really - can you say that about an old ferrari or a 50 year old 911 with hidden rust, rotting wire loom, an engine where internals are from 1970 etc ?

Anyway Im rambling...

Edited by Mintbird on Saturday 27th July 16:18

[blackmamba]

I think the point here is if you buy someone else’s build you need to go in with your eyes open and if you like it and the numbers make sense, great! If you want a bespoke build and have the details as you want, it doesn’t come cheap.

There Is plenty of rubbish out there and lots of lovely cars. You pays your money and takes your choice.