Discussion
Can someone with experience of driving both GT3 (any model, 991/992/etc; RS or „normal“ GT3) and an optimised, fast track car (Radical, highly powered Caterhams, Bac Mono) compare the experience?
I‘ve been debating buying an 991 GT3 (potentially RS) for track use for over a year now, but I always wonder if I‘m not better off (more fun for less expense) keeping the 718 I have for road use and then spending the rest on e.g. Radical for £25-30k and pay someone £1-1.5k/event to store, trailer and maintain the thing (I‘ve seen offers like that).
I‘ve been debating buying an 991 GT3 (potentially RS) for track use for over a year now, but I always wonder if I‘m not better off (more fun for less expense) keeping the 718 I have for road use and then spending the rest on e.g. Radical for £25-30k and pay someone £1-1.5k/event to store, trailer and maintain the thing (I‘ve seen offers like that).
Edited by px1980 on Monday 22 August 19:36
px1980 said:
Can someone with experience of driving both GT3 (any model, 991/992/etc; RS or „normal“ GT3) and an optimised, fast track car (Radical, highly powered Caterhams, Bac Mono) compare the experience?
I‘ve been debating buying an 991 GT3 (potentially RS) for track use for over a year now, but I always wonder if I‘m not better off (more fun for less expense) keeping the 718 I have for road use and then spending the test on e.g. Radical for £25-30k and pay someone £1-1.5k/event to store, trailer and maintain the thing (I‘ve seen offers like that).
My experience is with quite a few GT3s up to and including 991 generation and KTM X-Bow in two flavors, road legal and full house GT4 spec. It’s not an easy conundrum to answer. I am really scratching my head to be honest. There are pros and cons for both. The track toy road going X-Bow was bloody good fun, very reliable and relatively cheap to run. The GT4 car was on slicks and run by a race team so the costs soon escalate there, very quick over a lap mind you. However it’s nice just to trundle up in the GT3, reset the tyre pressures have a blast around and go home again. There is the necessity to spanner check either car before the next outing and consumables by their very nature need keeping on top off. This gets to be a PITA on the GT3 if it’s predominantly a daily, it’s not much fun driving on ragged out Cup2 tyres in the pissing rain on the motorway. Not an issue for the track toy as that’s tucked up in the garage. I‘ve been debating buying an 991 GT3 (potentially RS) for track use for over a year now, but I always wonder if I‘m not better off (more fun for less expense) keeping the 718 I have for road use and then spending the test on e.g. Radical for £25-30k and pay someone £1-1.5k/event to store, trailer and maintain the thing (I‘ve seen offers like that).
As to comparing the experience it’s almost impossible, they are very different beasts, the track toy is more visceral and boy do you feel exposed to the elements and the cars around you. By comparison the GT3 feels like a limo but it’s just as much fun to work it up to its limits.
This is going to sound a bit peak Pistonheads but you really need both
bigmowley said:
As to comparing the experience it’s almost impossible, they are very different beasts, the track toy is more visceral and boy do you feel exposed to the elements and the cars around you. By comparison the GT3 feels like a limo but it’s just as much fun to work it up to its limits.
Have to agree with the above. A road car used on track (however fast and/or capable although perhaps I'd have to add a slight caveat here for the 992 rs) is never going to feel like a dedicated track car. Particularly not something like a radical/BAC mono which is way lighter. One can't really compare the 2 or have one as a substitute for the other tbh. bigmowley said:
My experience is with quite a few GT3s up to and including 991 generation and KTM X-Bow in two flavors, road legal and full house GT4 spec. It’s not an easy conundrum to answer. I am really scratching my head to be honest. There are pros and cons for both. The track toy road going X-Bow was bloody good fun, very reliable and relatively cheap to run. The GT4 car was on slicks and run by a race team so the costs soon escalate there, very quick over a lap mind you. However it’s nice just to trundle up in the GT3, reset the tyre pressures have a blast around and go home again. There is the necessity to spanner check either car before the next outing and consumables by their very nature need keeping on top off. This gets to be a PITA on the GT3 if it’s predominantly a daily, it’s not much fun driving on ragged out Cup2 tyres in the pissing rain on the motorway. Not an issue for the track toy as that’s tucked up in the garage.
As to comparing the experience it’s almost impossible, they are very different beasts, the track toy is more visceral and boy do you feel exposed to the elements and the cars around you. By comparison the GT3 feels like a limo but it’s just as much fun to work it up to its limits.
This is going to sound a bit peak Pistonheads but you really need both
Thanks both, very helpful replies.As to comparing the experience it’s almost impossible, they are very different beasts, the track toy is more visceral and boy do you feel exposed to the elements and the cars around you. By comparison the GT3 feels like a limo but it’s just as much fun to work it up to its limits.
This is going to sound a bit peak Pistonheads but you really need both
I’ve recently started renting fast Caterhams for trackdays, rather than taking my Cayman to TDs. There are 3 things I love about this arrangement, on top of the fact Caterhams are just more fun of course (but it’s not relevant to this discussion as I’m comparing vs a fairly normal Cayman, rather than a track beast such as GT3/RS).
First, I really like that I can just show up at the circuit and someone else will take care of absolutely everything for me. I’m very time constrained normally and frequent visits to the workshop to change pads/tyres/oil are a drag on my free time. The same goes for having to read up online about any maintenance or track prep related work, there is a ton of information out there but to go through dozens of rennlist posts, digest it all, find the UK supplier of products that I may need, etc is just a lot of hours. In a road going car, if you push hard, you’ll end up changing front pads every 3 TDs, tyres every 5 or so, discs every 6, rear pads quite often too, and as all those things rarely align, I end up being at the workshop after every other TD or even more frequently.
Secondly, it seems to me that to buy a Radical for say £25-30k (I was looking at SR3) and then have someone store, prepare, trailer it for me (£1-1.5k/event) can actually work out cheaper than to track a Porsche. In the Cayman I average £450-550 in consumables/TD, I described my usage above, from what I understand this is more or less standard. Then you have the occasional additional costs, for instance I recently found I had lots of stone chips on the PPF, almost definitely due to TDs, there were so many that the whole thing had to be replaced - £1500, amortised over say 10 TDs. Insurance I sometimes pay for, too (mostly on more challenging circuits), this is £250/TD with Moris, for a £80k Cayman; I can’t imagine driving a £200k car (say 991.2 GT3 RS) uninsured, and the premiums would obviously be higher, too. Add petrol (a 1400kg car will burn more of it than a 600kg dedicated track car), I normally go through 2 tanks per event, £200. All in all, excluding track fee, the Cayman is costing me £950 or so per TD, if pushing hard. I’m not counting depreciation here, obviously that’s higher on a Porsche than on a Radical or Caterham (both because “base” price is higher, and because Porsche’s re-sale value will be more mileage-sensitive). Maybe it’s man-maths but the Radical arrangement seems to work out about the same financially as Porsche, possibly even cheaper if compared against an GT3 RS.
Thirdly, I don’t know about you guys but after a day of pushing hard, especially if I had to be up early to get to the circuit, I’m normally really tired and I have no interest in spending further 2 hours driving home in a noisy, stiff riding car with bucket seats. It will sound like a travesty on PH but if it was an option, I’d get into a self-driving car and just relax and recover after a TD. If renting a Caterham, I prefer to drive to/from the circuit in my normal/daily SUV, with comfy leather seats, good sound insulation and stereo, keep it in Comfort mode and set cruise control on the motorway at 70mph. Driving home in the Cayman is definitely a bit annoying , the 4.0l engine behind me is fun on Sunday B road drives but not after a TD. I figure a GT3 will obviously be much stiffer, noisier, less comfortable.
Having said all of the above, I’m certainly not decided yet. My driving standard is probably not up to Radical levels yet, although the time I’ve spent in Caterhams has taught me a lot. And then there’s the allure of a GT3, which countless good drivers / ex-racers told me is the only road-going car they consider genuinely really good on track.
I have a problem with low cars - Caterhams etc. - on road car track days. Yesterday I very nearly had a major one.
Came down Wellington straight and into Brooklands and saw a very fast Caterham (might have been on slicks, but had huge wing and was going well) had caught me. I indicated right to make space (as if returning to the national pits) so the car could pass on my left, as per briefing. When the car was past and I was almost picking up the throttle and moving back to the racing line, I realised it was 'towing' another, near idential Caterham that I'd had no way of previously spotting.
You just cannot see the f
kers. It's very difficult to keep things tidy with the speed discrepancy, but with the race cars, somehow, it's easier to deal with and see them.
Both Caterhams were being driven well and did absolutely nothing wrong.
Came down Wellington straight and into Brooklands and saw a very fast Caterham (might have been on slicks, but had huge wing and was going well) had caught me. I indicated right to make space (as if returning to the national pits) so the car could pass on my left, as per briefing. When the car was past and I was almost picking up the throttle and moving back to the racing line, I realised it was 'towing' another, near idential Caterham that I'd had no way of previously spotting.
You just cannot see the f
kers. It's very difficult to keep things tidy with the speed discrepancy, but with the race cars, somehow, it's easier to deal with and see them.Both Caterhams were being driven well and did absolutely nothing wrong.
I drove nearly 200 miles from my home to Silverstone on Sunday night followed by over 160 miles on track and drove another 200 miles straight home last night in my RS WP. I was as fresh as a daisy when I arrived home however in an even noisier and harsher riding 992RS I'm guessing it would be different.
No getting much in there , as my .2 RS is. my daily I had cage delete which is great as had to fit an emergency passenger in the back at LMC . Also great storage .
The 992RS maybe this is an option as no boot .
As cage not welded in , not that big an issue ......unless you barrel roll at 150 mph
The 992RS maybe this is an option as no boot .
As cage not welded in , not that big an issue ......unless you barrel roll at 150 mph
hornbaek said:
The existance of a cage or not in order to be able to access the empty space behind the seats is pretty relative as the carbon non tilting seats prevent any kind of non-squishy object to be placed there anyway.
The only way to get a crash helmet behind the fixed LWBs is to move the driver's seat to the most rearward setting and do the opposite to the passenger seat. That's before you even get to the cage. It seems the new design of the Carbon cage allows better access into the space behind it but still a real pain .Edited by Taffy66 on Thursday 25th August 10:03
hunter 66 said:
No getting much in there , as my .2 RS is. my daily I had cage delete which is great as had to fit an emergency passenger in the back at LMC . Also great storage .
The 992RS maybe this is an option as no boot .
As cage not welded in , not that big an issue ......unless you barrel roll at 150 mph
I did that once - wasn’t much fun The 992RS maybe this is an option as no boot .
As cage not welded in , not that big an issue ......unless you barrel roll at 150 mph
hunter 66 said:
No getting much in there , as my .2 RS is. my daily I had cage delete which is great as had to fit an emergency passenger in the back at LMC . Also great storage .
The 992RS maybe this is an option as no boot .
As cage not welded in , not that big an issue ......unless you barrel roll at 150 mph
I agree it looks a tight fit behind there. Also IMO its just not safe to be out on track with items that are not strapped down . I can think of lots of times when something has been put in the back its either makes a noise under braking that there is or might be a Problem,. and or it finds its way into the driver foot well. Having said this its no problem for me not having front space and its looks like some worthwhile gains made in engine performance and Aero.The 992RS maybe this is an option as no boot .
As cage not welded in , not that big an issue ......unless you barrel roll at 150 mph
Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 25th August 12:06
hornbaek said:
The existance of a cage or not in order to be able to access the empty space behind the seats is pretty relative as the carbon non tilting seats prevent any kind of non-squishy object to be placed there anyway.
I have no idea why they dropped the folding LWBs. Had them in my 7.2 RS and they were adequate. With the combination of non-foiding seats and no front storage this is not great,Well,put the spec in and we will see how allocation rolls. Did not go for WP or PTS though they have a PTS list now in the system. Usual stuff,ceramics,front lift,LWBs etc.
Racing yellow about 20% for extras. More of a functional than a show spec. Have had the same rep for decades and six cars so will likely show up one day. Factory delivery
Racing yellow about 20% for extras. More of a functional than a show spec. Have had the same rep for decades and six cars so will likely show up one day. Factory delivery
RDMcG said:
Pflanzgarten said:
Interesting choice on Racing Yellow, as a confirmed yellow lover it just doesn't do it for me.
I would prefer fayence yellow but I expect it will be ok rather than greatPflanzgarten said:
RDMcG said:
Pflanzgarten said:
Interesting choice on Racing Yellow, as a confirmed yellow lover it just doesn't do it for me.
I would prefer fayence yellow but I expect it will be ok rather than greatNot locked in of course so will see if and when I get an allocation
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