992 - essential options vs depreciation?

992 - essential options vs depreciation?

Author
Discussion

GTS JOE

564 posts

219 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
Racer26 said:
Think a light spec base 992 is the way. Cannot see what to gain from all the "essential" overpriced, over-hyped extras. I've driven all sorts of 911's - and for me the simpler the better.
Saw a standard black 992, the car looked stunning. It was spotlessly clean though!
Really fancy a manual base 992.
My spec would include the Carrera Classic larger wheels (I'm a sucker for that wheel), metal sunroof, 4 way SportTex seats. And that's about it.
I'm thinking the same as you..The 992 i'm really looking forward to is the T with the rumoured 4L 718GT4 engine..Manual,RAS,PCCBs and Buckets in Guards red..
Me too...(kind of)
I’ll be running the 992 C4S (I’ve gone a bit OTT on the options) as my DD and then the plan is to replace my manual 718 GTS next year with either a 718 GT4/Spyder or wait for the rumoured manual 992 T with the same 4.0L NA engine (or whatever it will be called) as my weekend/trackday car.

Edited by GTS JOE on Monday 19th August 18:58

Yellow T

370 posts

73 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
GTS JOE said:
Me too...(kind of)
I’ll be running the 992 C4S (I’ve gone a bit OTT on the options) as my DD and then the plan is to replace my manual 718 GTS next year with either a 718 GT4/Spyder or wait for the rumoured manual 992 T with the same 4.0L NA engine (or whatever it will be called) as my weekend/trackday car.

Edited by GTS JOE on Monday 19th August 18:58
Would a manual 992 T with a 4.0L NA engine not be moving into GT territory?

GTS JOE

564 posts

219 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
Yellow T said:
GTS JOE said:
Me too...(kind of)
I’ll be running the 992 C4S (I’ve gone a bit OTT on the options) as my DD and then the plan is to replace my manual 718 GTS next year with either a 718 GT4/Spyder or wait for the rumoured manual 992 T with the same 4.0L NA engine (or whatever it will be called) as my weekend/trackday car.

Edited by GTS JOE on Monday 19th August 18:58
Would a manual 992 T with a 4.0L NA engine not be moving into GT territory?
With the same 420bhp of the NA 718 GT4/Spyder I feel there could be a happy Porsche “back to basics marketing slot” between 992 base and S without stepping anywhere near GTS let alone GT3 toes... only issues I fear are A: emissions for a “mainstream” 992 model and as a result, B: if it does happen it will be very late in the 992.1 lifecycle with a relatively short production run.


Edited by GTS JOE on Monday 19th August 20:06

GTS JOE

564 posts

219 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
GTS JOE said:
Yellow T said:
GTS JOE said:
Me too...(kind of)
I’ll be running the 992 C4S (I’ve gone a bit OTT on the options) as my DD and then the plan is to replace my manual 718 GTS next year with either a 718 GT4/Spyder or wait for the rumoured manual 992 T with the same 4.0L NA engine (or whatever it will be called) as my weekend/trackday car.

Edited by GTS JOE on Monday 19th August 18:58
Would a manual 992 T with a 4.0L NA engine not be moving into GT territory?
With the same 420bhp of the NA 718 GT4/Spyder I feel there could be a happy Porsche “back to basics marketing slot” between 992 base and S without stepping anywhere near GTS let alone GT3 toes... only issues I fear are A: emissions for a “mainstream” 992 model and as a result, B: if it does happen it will be very late in the 992.1 lifecycle with a relatively short production run.

+ Porsche themselves have already let slip that A: The 992 T (or equivalent of whatever the name) will happen and B: The NA 4.0L of the GT4/Spyder will be finding a home in “other” Porsche’s to justify the development... I’m betting A and B align at some point in the 992.1


Edited by GTS JOE on Monday 19th August 20:34

Yellow T

370 posts

73 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
GTS JOE said:
With the same 420bhp of the NA 718 GT4/Spyder I feel there could be a happy Porsche “back to basics marketing slot” between 992 base and S without stepping anywhere near GTS let alone GT3 toes... only issues I fear are A: emissions for a “mainstream” 992 model and as a result, B: if it does happen it will be very late in the 992.1 lifecycle with a relatively short production run.

+ Porsche themselves have already let slip that the NA 4.0L of the GT4/Spyder will be finding a home in “other” Porsche’s to justify the development.
That makes a lot of sense plus with no narrow bodied 992's - a N/A T would really differentiate it from the rest and make it quite a 'special'.

Leithen

10,934 posts

268 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
breadvan said:
SC is essential in my view, if only for the wheel mounted mode switch (or whatever it’s called). The 992 is my first Porsche with it and it’s blooming marvellous to quickly flip through the modes and it gives you the 20 boost button. Easy decision......
Agreed - and up here "Scottish Mode" AKA Wet Mode has been frequently selected... hehe

I'll be fascinated to drive the standard Carrera. I suspect it will be a great car even in base spec.

I'd go with this spec however - http://www.porsche-code.com/PLNCQ7W3

Aventurine Green Metallic
Truffle Brown Leather with Crayon Stitching (I have it, it's great)
Sports Chrono
RS Spyder Wheels
Auto Dimming Mirrors with Rain Sensor
Park Assist with Reverse Camera (Camera is st, but it still helps reversing)
Sports Seats Plus 4 Way

Factor in PPF for the rear wheel arches - it's small stone chip armageddon from the front wheels.... grumpy

Simon-Blue

21 posts

61 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
Looking at options (before we lock down), discarded the dimming mirrors, fully painted wing mirrors (std look good with the crayon)

I am now considering the reversing camera - reading some updates, maybe not worth it. Have it on the Macan - not sure we use it that much.

However adding in Bose and RWS.....

Simon-Blue

21 posts

61 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
Another question - light design pack? Worth it or not?

JohnBRG

368 posts

172 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
OP - I've spent hours on the 992 configurator. when I spec one the same as my old 997, I'm at almost 100K.

Then I realise that if I bought one then the year one depreciation would exceed the value of my 997 - which is no longer depreciating, has required only routine maintenance and which sails through its MOT every year.

My advice - buy a cherished 997.1 and content yourself in the knowledge that your 'new' 911 has cost you less than a year's depreciation on a 992. And you get to keep it forever.

mw300

Original Poster:

24 posts

87 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Thank you for all the comments so far. Very helpful and spec is nearly finalised.

Appreciate the sentiment expressed by some re depreciation but buying a 997.1 is a totally different proposition. You just don’t get the same level of connectivity, driver aids, bright head lights etc that are nice to have in a daily driver. The 997.1 may be more fun and depreciation proof (bar engine issues) but that’s a different conversation altogether.

I’ve concluded over the years that it’s fine to buy new cars provided their depreciation curve is flat if you buy at the beginning of the product cycle, i.e. now for the 992. It’s one thing to buy a 7 series BMW or heavy Merc coupe where there are few buyers for a 3 year old as the typical buyer wants new and used prices fall off a cliff vs buying a 911 where there is demand at any age point. Admittedly very few cars have flat depreciation curves but luckily 911s do.

Everyone seems to forget that tyres, discs, pads, etc on a 2 year old car won’t be new so will need replacing within the next 3 years, the interior won’t be as fresh etc. As cars get a few years older annoying faults can develop like window seals that don’t shut, glove box rattles, etc. many of these cost a fortune to sort but aren’t even covered under warranty.

However, look at prices of 991’s bought at the beginning of the last cycle, i.e. 2012. Not much stock below £50k despite the 992 being released (which implies less than 10% per year depreciation) and anything under £50k will be high milers. Now also factor in that a base 992 has the performance of a 991S and a lot more/better kit as stock (cruise, LED’s, etc) so one should be comparing nee base against previous gen S, finance on a new car is much cheaper than a 5+ year old car (i’m just talking interest rates for loans secured by the asset, ignore comparisons with personal loans as there’s a limit how much one can borrow on that front and what if you want a personal loan for home improvements instead), warranties more comprehensive, and there is some value on your time if you have to deal with the hassle of an unforeseen repair or breakdown. Maybe that value is different if you’re a retired gentleman with lots of free time but I’m busy with work and don’t want to add to a seemingly endless to-do list.

I can see the logic in buying up to 3 years old and holding until about 7 years if you don’t care about spec but beyond that it’s a different proposition. Remember we’re talking about a daily driver here, not a weekend toy. I wouldn’t buy a used washing machine or dishwasher either even if they have 10 years useful life left in them. The labour cost for fitting new and used is the same but you’ll have to replace or repair the used one sooner hence incur the same labour cost and hassle more frequently.

I apply the same logic for mobiles, laptops, etc. Better to buy a basic spec but latest model iphone and replace it more often (when someone will still pay £200-300 for it even though the battery is weak and it tends to freeze once a week) instead of buying top of the new range and using it until the end of its useful life when it’s worth zero.

Unfortunately you’re going to pay for cars one way or the other unless you have access to limited editions. Not sure I’d want to live with a GT3 / GT4 as a daily in London though so a base carrera with the bare minimum of options seems like the most “rational” choice.

Adam B

27,262 posts

255 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
By flat I hope you mean slow!

And all the 991.2 prices you are looking at will be negotiated down 2k and is before dealer margin of 6-8k

JohnBRG

368 posts

172 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
My 997 is a daily driver and the headlights seem adequate! But, each to their own and it certainly doesn't have the modern stuff like auto headlights, auto wipers etc. Those things don't bother me, bit I admit that I have swapped out the PCM2 unit in favour of a double din touchscreen which can mirror my mobile. Good luck with your purchase.

Buggyjam

539 posts

80 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Quite an interesting discussion compared to normal Porsche depreciation stuff. I’ve an older cayman, a 987. Can’t say I’m bothered it not being the latest tech and don’t miss what I don’t know. It still feels “new” to me ha. What it seems to be losing in value every year is minuscule compared the the drop on some new cars, even with parts.

I can totally appreciate if you value the latest advancements in technology from a comfort, safety and ease of use viewpoint, then buying new technology makes sense. My car is manual, doesn’t have much auto anything. For me those things aren’t a pressing factor.

From my limited understanding I gather from listening on the sidelines, a lot of cars drop a lot in value over the first couple of years in a sort of rollercoaster shape, probably kicked off at the beginning by the dealer premium? Are 911s really a sort of straight line in their drop? That could make buying new more sense than say a 3 year old I suppose, if you can afford the initial outlay. In that case you’d lose the same ish year on year as one a few years older? And if you like the latest technology then that makes brand new sensible?

996Targa

237 posts

147 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Hi,

I have a 991.2 which I bought used and thought fairly lightly specced but this still worked out at base plus 18%. Colour will be important on resale so needs careful consideration. I think that a nice and not too adventurous metallic makes the car look better than the plain colours. But then I am getting on.

My car had to have a glass roof as I was coming from a 996 Targa. This one is not as big but not as complicated, a big plus.

I have a sports exhaust which I would not have picked other than on a 991.2 and Sport Chrono which I have never used but am glad it's there but wouldn't bother with either on a 992.

PDK was another expensive option which is standard on the 992. When (if?) the manual comes along the base 992 should be a sub £80,000 car.

One option I would not pick is the dimming mirrors, not because of the mirrors bit but because of the rain sensing wipers which come with them. This function drives me bonkers and I'm still just about able to tell when it's raining. Can't Porsche go back to the infinitely variable intermittant pre 991?

One option that I particularly like is the speed limit indicator which cost £264 when new but can now only be had with some other options for nearly £2,000.

Does anyone know if we have lost the sequential lever shift on the 992?

The 992 is a great car and several of the extras on a 991 are now standard, Parkassist, cruise, heated seats and mats(!) come to mind.

Enjoy the process and your choice.

7184c

415 posts

92 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
I’ve been looking at a basic spec as my first 911 and new specced car purchase want to make it feel a bit special inside.
GT Silver, blue or aventurine
Colour wheel centres
Folding mirrors
Sport seats plus, sport tex with crayon stitching
Crests on head rests and armrest
GR seat belts
White Rev counter
Storage and smoker pack
Gt steering wheel
Alcantara roof

Ideally save some £ if they release the manual soon to get under 85k, which when you look at poor spec 7 year old 991s around 50k with average mileage is a relative bargain

FrankCayman

2,121 posts

214 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
7184c said:
I’ve been looking at a basic spec as my first 911 and new specced car purchase want to make it feel a bit special inside.
GT Silver, blue or aventurine
Colour wheel centres
Folding mirrors
Sport seats plus, sport tex with crayon stitching
Crests on head rests and armrest
GR seat belts
White Rev counter
Storage and smoker pack
Gt steering wheel
Alcantara roof

Ideally save some £ if they release the manual soon to get under 85k, which when you look at poor spec 7 year old 991s around 50k with average mileage is a relative bargain
Yep...my thoughts exactly re the manual.....nice saving on the PDK....and nicer to drive

mw300

Original Poster:

24 posts

87 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
I doubt the manual will be cheaper than PDK going forward, it will probably be a no
cost option. Not even sure if the manual will be much more fun with the high gearing needed to comply with current emissions regulations. The T might be special if it’s NA but that’s another story.

The auto dimming mirrors are a funny one. Think I need them for those dark winter days when stuck in traffic in front of an SUV and bright lights on the side mirrors can be irritating but not keen on the rain sensors for the wipers either and yet another thing to go wrong. Looked at buying foils for the side mirrors but realised it’s an electric system that darkens them so apparently no simple way of getting around the issue and probably illegal to tint the mirrors permanently.

Not convinced of subtle colours, why bother with a nice sports car and then try to blend in? Might as well get a Golf R or Audi RS then. Guards red feels more in keeping with the nature of a fast car.

Grantstown

974 posts

88 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
JohnBRG said:
My 997 is a daily driver and the headlights seem adequate! But, each to their own and it certainly doesn't have the modern stuff like auto headlights, auto wipers etc. Those things don't bother me, bit I admit that I have swapped out the PCM2 unit in favour of a double din touchscreen which can mirror my mobile. Good luck with your purchase.
People forget that you can put a new head unit in. It may not be a game changer for the OP, but a useful point.

dgswk

899 posts

95 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
mw300 said:
Thank you for all the comments so far. Very helpful and spec is nearly finalised.

Appreciate the sentiment expressed by some re depreciation but buying a 997.1 is a totally different proposition. You just don’t get the same level of connectivity, driver aids, bright head lights etc that are nice to have in a daily driver. The 997.1 may be more fun and depreciation proof (bar engine issues) but that’s a different conversation altogether.

I’ve concluded over the years that it’s fine to buy new cars provided their depreciation curve is flat if you buy at the beginning of the product cycle, i.e. now for the 992. It’s one thing to buy a 7 series BMW or heavy Merc coupe where there are few buyers for a 3 year old as the typical buyer wants new and used prices fall off a cliff vs buying a 911 where there is demand at any age point. Admittedly very few cars have flat depreciation curves but luckily 911s do.

Everyone seems to forget that tyres, discs, pads, etc on a 2 year old car won’t be new so will need replacing within the next 3 years, the interior won’t be as fresh etc. As cars get a few years older annoying faults can develop like window seals that don’t shut, glove box rattles, etc. many of these cost a fortune to sort but aren’t even covered under warranty.

However, look at prices of 991’s bought at the beginning of the last cycle, i.e. 2012. Not much stock below £50k despite the 992 being released (which implies less than 10% per year depreciation) and anything under £50k will be high milers. Now also factor in that a base 992 has the performance of a 991S and a lot more/better kit as stock (cruise, LED’s, etc) so one should be comparing nee base against previous gen S, finance on a new car is much cheaper than a 5+ year old car (i’m just talking interest rates for loans secured by the asset, ignore comparisons with personal loans as there’s a limit how much one can borrow on that front and what if you want a personal loan for home improvements instead), warranties more comprehensive, and there is some value on your time if you have to deal with the hassle of an unforeseen repair or breakdown. Maybe that value is different if you’re a retired gentleman with lots of free time but I’m busy with work and don’t want to add to a seemingly endless to-do list.

I can see the logic in buying up to 3 years old and holding until about 7 years if you don’t care about spec but beyond that it’s a different proposition. Remember we’re talking about a daily driver here, not a weekend toy. I wouldn’t buy a used washing machine or dishwasher either even if they have 10 years useful life left in them. The labour cost for fitting new and used is the same but you’ll have to replace or repair the used one sooner hence incur the same labour cost and hassle more frequently.

I apply the same logic for mobiles, laptops, etc. Better to buy a basic spec but latest model iphone and replace it more often (when someone will still pay £200-300 for it even though the battery is weak and it tends to freeze once a week) instead of buying top of the new range and using it until the end of its useful life when it’s worth zero.

Unfortunately you’re going to pay for cars one way or the other unless you have access to limited editions. Not sure I’d want to live with a GT3 / GT4 as a daily in London though so a base carrera with the bare minimum of options seems like the most “rational” choice.
Good post, like you I always buy new for all of the above reasons unless its a shed that I can scrap at the hint of the first big bill. Someone on here said keep to about 10% for extras, heard that somewhere else too. I’ve ordered an S, but tried to keep to £100k all in. My must haves were Bose, SC, PSE and folding mirrors. If i could have opted for smaller wheels I would have (better ride). I went sportex as hate that sweaty back / black leather thing in summer, and sortex looks like houndstooth. Wasted a few £££’s on tinted glass and yellow seatbelts. Didnt bother with metallic, flat yellow is cool with me!


mw300

Original Poster:

24 posts

87 months

Wednesday 21st August 2019
quotequote all
Now that the spec is sorted has anyone actually managed to secure a discount on a new 992 built to order?