991.2 GT3 sell now or keep dilemma

[ags11]

https://www.motor1.com/news/453587/porsche-911-gt3...

I'd put this on another thread, sounds like the possibility of PDK?

[2010spy]

Digga said:

Yes, I think we've passed "peak wing". Oddly, non-Porsche/non-car people often tend to prefer the look of the non-RS derivatives, because the RS looks, to them, too "racecar".

As you say, with the intent of the Touring, it is curious that PDK was not at least an option.

Digga, I think the intent of the Touring was simply to stick it to the 911R speculators.

Porsche Boss "Achleitner confessed that after watching the crazy reaction concerning used car prices," the company position was, "We don't like that." Hence the rollout of a 911 R minus a few of the really special bits as a glorious, 500-horsepower, 9,000-rpm stone knocking down two birds: pleasing a legion of Porsche buyers, while disappointing a much smaller legion of Porsche speculators. Said Achleitner, "If [the GT3 Touring Package] helps keep the prices a little bit lower for the average customer of our cars, it's better. Of course, there are some specific customers who are a little bit disappointed, but it's ok, we can live with this."

[Melvynr]

av185 said:

No one knows for sure there appears to have been a cock up on the figures.

Do appear to be fewer manuals though.

622 UK cars in total including 40 odd manual tourings.

Having regard to the so called and relative unicorn status and price of the 991.2 Touring it will be intersting to see whether the 992 Touring is ordered in much higher numbers this time at the expense of the winged GT3.

Edited by av185 on Friday 13th November 13:41

Very strange how there is no info on UK production for the GT3, I would say PDK would be around 3-1 maybe even more.As far as price goes, I would say 120k base which wouldn't be a bad price as it will no doubt up the game again, wonder if they will use the same engine as is in the.2 of which seem to be very solid.
The touring this time will be released with a choice of gearbox, they have been testing it with both. I think the final wing setup will be a big say as to what you order, I don't believe they will use the horrific gooseneck on them.

[john-j4ty0]

ok newbie here but long term lurker looking at a .1 but with prices falling .2 seems a better buy and watching the prices (on pdk models sorry all you manuals out there I’m no driving god ) they seem to moving downwards rather than holding appreciate some of that is seasonal but with 992 coming end of jan probably feb any guess-estimates on a this end of feb 117.5 ? or is that too much of a drop (no PCCB)

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10869218

thanks

[av185]

john-j4ty0 said:

ok newbie here but long term lurker looking at a .1 but with prices falling .2 seems a better buy and watching the prices (on pdk models sorry all you manuals out there I’m no driving god ) they seem to moving downwards rather than holding appreciate some of that is seasonal but with 992 coming end of jan probably feb any guess-estimates on a this end of feb 117.5 ? or is that too much of a drop (no PCCB)

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10869218

thanks

Prices of 991.2 GT3s will likely be higher approaching next years track season and Spring better weather etc especially at sub 3k miles.

Also the 992 will likely not push prices of 991 lower depending on actual increase in price of the 992 its availability and potential hard Brexit surcharge. How it sounds with gpfs etc will have a bearing too.

Approaching Christmas will be the cheapest time to pick up a 991.2 GT3 happened with the 991.1 too waiting until peak buying season always a mistake say this every year.

That car looks ok but a bit toppy at £125k for a 2017 car with steels even with the low miles.

[Cheib]

Melvynr said:

Very strange how there is no info on UK production for the GT3, I would say PDK would be around 3-1 maybe even more.As far as price goes, I would say 120k base which wouldn't be a bad price as it will no doubt up the game again, wonder if they will use the same engine as is in the.2 of which seem to be very solid.
The touring this time will be released with a choice of gearbox, they have been testing it with both. I think the final wing setup will be a big say as to what you order, I don't believe they will use the horrific gooseneck on them.

Porsche stopped releasing production data when values went nuts because people were using it pump values based on rarity. Normally you can look at DVLA data but if you look at it for 991.2 GT3 it shows a lot of manual cars being delivered through 2017 when initially it wasn’t awavailble....so it’s very unlikely the data is correct.

I seem to remember around the time cars being delivered the info coming out of OPC’s was that around 1/3 of their orders were manual. Certainly until recently the split of manual to PDK cars on the used market has been pretty even.

The one fact that is certain is that there’s a lot of them...over 600. A lot more than previous generations.

[GT4RS]

Cheib said:

Melvynr said:

Very strange how there is no info on UK production for the GT3, I would say PDK would be around 3-1 maybe even more.As far as price goes, I would say 120k base which wouldn't be a bad price as it will no doubt up the game again, wonder if they will use the same engine as is in the.2 of which seem to be very solid.
The touring this time will be released with a choice of gearbox, they have been testing it with both. I think the final wing setup will be a big say as to what you order, I don't believe they will use the horrific gooseneck on them.

Porsche stopped releasing production data when values went nuts because people were using it pump values based on rarity. Normally you can look at DVLA data but if you look at it for 991.2 GT3 it shows a lot of manual cars being delivered through 2017 when initially it wasn’t awavailble....so it’s very unlikely the data is correct.

I seem to remember around the time cars being delivered the info coming out of OPC’s was that around 1/3 of their orders were manual. Certainly until recently the split of manual to PDK cars on the used market has been pretty even.

The one fact that is certain is that there’s a lot of them...over 600. A lot more than previous generations.

The 991.2 gt3 is the highest produced Porsche GT car to date.

Goes to show how successful the GT range is to to the Porsche brand.

Problem will be in years to come as supply out strips demand.

[IMI A]

GT4RS said:

Cheib said:

Melvynr said:

Very strange how there is no info on UK production for the GT3, I would say PDK would be around 3-1 maybe even more.As far as price goes, I would say 120k base which wouldn't be a bad price as it will no doubt up the game again, wonder if they will use the same engine as is in the.2 of which seem to be very solid.
The touring this time will be released with a choice of gearbox, they have been testing it with both. I think the final wing setup will be a big say as to what you order, I don't believe they will use the horrific gooseneck on them.

Porsche stopped releasing production data when values went nuts because people were using it pump values based on rarity. Normally you can look at DVLA data but if you look at it for 991.2 GT3 it shows a lot of manual cars being delivered through 2017 when initially it wasn’t awavailble....so it’s very unlikely the data is correct.

I seem to remember around the time cars being delivered the info coming out of OPC’s was that around 1/3 of their orders were manual. Certainly until recently the split of manual to PDK cars on the used market has been pretty even.

The one fact that is certain is that there’s a lot of them...over 600. A lot more than previous generations.

The 991.2 gt3 is the highest produced Porsche GT car to date.

Goes to show how successful the GT range is to to the Porsche brand.

Problem will be in years to come as supply out strips demand.

You're possibly looking at the GT3 badge and not the product itself. You need to look at both sides of the equation. I think you can get away with GT3 as a dd nowadays. Never used to be the case with heavier clutch and firmer ride hence its audience is now larger as these aspects have improved. 991 GT3 will be worth more than 992 GT3 in a few years IMO.
Many obvious reasons

[GT4RS]

IMI A said:

GT4RS said:

Cheib said:

Melvynr said:

Very strange how there is no info on UK production for the GT3, I would say PDK would be around 3-1 maybe even more.As far as price goes, I would say 120k base which wouldn't be a bad price as it will no doubt up the game again, wonder if they will use the same engine as is in the.2 of which seem to be very solid.
The touring this time will be released with a choice of gearbox, they have been testing it with both. I think the final wing setup will be a big say as to what you order, I don't believe they will use the horrific gooseneck on them.

Porsche stopped releasing production data when values went nuts because people were using it pump values based on rarity. Normally you can look at DVLA data but if you look at it for 991.2 GT3 it shows a lot of manual cars being delivered through 2017 when initially it wasn’t awavailble....so it’s very unlikely the data is correct.

I seem to remember around the time cars being delivered the info coming out of OPC’s was that around 1/3 of their orders were manual. Certainly until recently the split of manual to PDK cars on the used market has been pretty even.

The one fact that is certain is that there’s a lot of them...over 600. A lot more than previous generations.

The 991.2 gt3 is the highest produced Porsche GT car to date.

Goes to show how successful the GT range is to to the Porsche brand.

Problem will be in years to come as supply out strips demand.

You're possible looking at the badge and not the product itself. You need to look at both sides of the equation. I think you can get away with GT3 as a dd nowadays. Never used to be the case with heavier clutch and from ride hence its audience is now larger as these aspects have improved. 991 GT3 will be worth more than 992 GT3 in a few years IMO.
Many obvious reasons

I don’t disagree the 991.2 is very usable as a daily. I’ve used a mixture of 997 and 991 cars as daily’s since 2009 and they are great platforms. The problem we are all faced with now is many want the newest and most up to date with tech and the demand / build numbers were partly driven by investor buyers rather than car nuts.

We are at a strange cross road in car design in my opinion, many 991.2 owners will be drawn to the new 992 gt3 as it may end up being last real full petrol gt car.

I do think the 992 gt numbers will be lower than the 991.2 gt3 due to lower investor demand.

[Cheib]

GT4RS said:

I do think the 992 gt numbers will be lower than the 991.2 gt3 due to lower investor demand.

I’m doubtful of that, remembering that in Europe we got less GT3 RS and GT2 RS than we should have due to production of EU cars stopping because of new emission regulations. We may have got 100 more of each based on normal % of production.

Porsche senior execs are on record as saying they don’t like they’re cars ending up as investments and seeing flippers making huge money...they’d much rather make 20% more cars and see more normal market values and see the cars getting driven. You don’t want to flush things down the toilet but they’re a long way from doing that.

Don’t know how right these numbers are but my guess is they are about right given the increase in allocation to the UK....the increase in production numbers of 991.2 over 991.1 is pretty big and massive compared to earlier cars. I really don’t see 992 production being reduced.



Came from here https://www.porscheknowledge.com/gt3-production-bu...

[Melvynr]

Cheib said:

Porsche stopped releasing production data when values went nuts because people were using it pump values based on rarity. Normally you can look at DVLA data but if you look at it for 991.2 GT3 it shows a lot of manual cars being delivered through 2017 when initially it wasn’t awavailble....so it’s very unlikely the data is correct.

I seem to remember around the time cars being delivered the info coming out of OPC’s was that around 1/3 of their orders were manual. Certainly until recently the split of manual to PDK cars on the used market has been pretty even.

The one fact that is certain is that there’s a lot of them...over 600. A lot more than previous generations.

That would sort of fit in with my estimation of 3-1, in favour of pdk, its not just the P brand but seems a fair reflection of any other brand that offers manual gearbox against pdk , dct.
What engine do you reckon will go into the GT3, since the .2 engine has only gone into the gt3 and speedster, do you think it could go into the 992.

Edited by Melvynr on Saturday 14th November 01:15

[Cheib]

Melvynr said:

Cheib said:

Porsche stopped releasing production data when values went nuts because people were using it pump values based on rarity. Normally you can look at DVLA data but if you look at it for 991.2 GT3 it shows a lot of manual cars being delivered through 2017 when initially it wasn’t awavailble....so it’s very unlikely the data is correct.

I seem to remember around the time cars being delivered the info coming out of OPC’s was that around 1/3 of their orders were manual. Certainly until recently the split of manual to PDK cars on the used market has been pretty even.

The one fact that is certain is that there’s a lot of them...over 600. A lot more than previous generations.

That would sort of fit in with my estimation of 3-1, in favour of pdk, its not just the P brand but seems a fair reflection of any other brand that offers manual gearbox against pdk , dct.
What engine do you reckon will go into the GT3, since the .2 engine has only gone into the gt3 and speedster, do you think it could go into the 992.

Edited by Melvynr on Saturday 14th November 01:15

I am sure it’ll be a version of the GPF equipped engiine that was in the Speedster and latter 991.2 GT3 RS’s. Power output will obviously be up slightly and ultimately defined by whatever is required to shave a couple of tenth’s off 991.2’s 0-60 time to keep the marketing people happy

[Digga]

Cheib said:

GT4RS said:

I do think the 992 gt numbers will be lower than the 991.2 gt3 due to lower investor demand.

I’m doubtful of that, remembering that in Europe we got less GT3 RS and GT2 RS than we should have due to production of EU cars stopping because of new emission regulations. We may have got 100 more of each based on normal % of production.

Porsche senior execs are on record as saying they don’t like they’re cars ending up as investments and seeing flippers making huge money...they’d much rather make 20% more cars and see more normal market values and see the cars getting driven. You don’t want to flush things down the toilet but they’re a long way from doing that.

Don’t know how right these numbers are but my guess is they are about right given the increase in allocation to the UK....the increase in production numbers of 991.2 over 991.1 is pretty big and massive compared to earlier cars. I really don’t see 992 production being reduced.



Came from here https://www.porscheknowledge.com/gt3-production-bu...

I don't think the numbers built are necessarily and arbiter of value or residuals.

Just compare the numbers of 997.1 GT3 and 997.2 GT3 RS as a good example. It' more about the qualitative judgment of the respective cars IMHO.

Similarly, the numbers of 996 RS are not really keeping values anywhere near the similarly rare 4.0 RS.

[Cheib]

Digga said:

don't think the numbers built are necessarily and arbiter of value or residuals.

Just compare the numbers of 997.1 GT3 and 997.2 GT3 RS as a good example. It' more about the qualitative judgment of the respective cars IMHO.

Similarly, the numbers of 996 RS are not really keeping values anywhere near the similarly rare 4.0 RS.

Yup that’s very true...there’s an added element as you say about the qualitative judgement. ,2 cars whether that’s 997 or 991 hold a healthy price premium which is probably a reflection of the improvement over .1 versions...996 GT3 I know is more of a moot point.

I think 4.0 RS values are just an anomaly....last Metzger car...last manual RS and RHD values are so high because a lot went to Asia and will never be seen again because of import taxes....and I think the 996 RS’s biggest problem is it’s a 996.

[2010spy]

As a comparison for what you would buy if you sold your GT3 (original thread).

I've looked at Mclaren's current offer on 720S Spyder. List price £300k discounted to £240k, 2-year PCP with £30k deposit and £2,000 per month max 10,000 miles. So basically £68,000 for two years if you give it back (which you will because no equity in it). Chuck in the running costs and you are looking at £75,000/£7.50 per mile. I calculated the 'cost' of visiting my family in Manchester (500 miles) to be £3,750! Makes you think how much 'good value' the GT3 is.....

[IMI A]

2010spy said:

As a comparison for what you would buy if you sold your GT3 (original thread).

I've looked at Mclaren's current offer on 720S Spyder. List price £300k discounted to £240k, 2-year PCP with £30k deposit and £2,000 per month max 10,000 miles. So basically £68,000 for two years if you give it back (which you will because no equity in it). Chuck in the running costs and you are looking at £75,000/£7.50 per mile. I calculated the 'cost' of visiting my family in Manchester (500 miles) to be £3,750! Makes you think how much 'good value' the GT3 is.....

Youre also assuming you're using the 720s 24/7. Not when in garage being fixed so real cost per mile even higher.

[2010spy]

IMI A said:

Youre also assuming you're using the 720s 24/7. Not when in garage being fixed so real cost per mile even higher.

Yeh, I based costs on doing the maximum 10,000 miles (and then handing back).

[Digga]

OP certainly has a dilemma; 992 GT3 could be a very good car, one you'd not want to miss out on, we're the opportunity presenting itself.

On the other hand, IMHO it gets ever more difficult to deliver true NA thrills, with increasing levels of environment-saving systems. So you can easily see the situation that, like the 997.2 3.8 RS, the predecessor quickly establishes itself as being more desirable (either qualitatively better, or more broadly appealing, or both) than its replacement.

No doubt, the new car will (must) be considerably faster than the 991.2, but that really is not the be all and end of for most.

[JulierPass]

Digga said:

Cheib said:

GT4RS said:

I do think the 992 gt numbers will be lower than the 991.2 gt3 due to lower investor demand.

I’m doubtful of that, remembering that in Europe we got less GT3 RS and GT2 RS than we should have due to production of EU cars stopping because of new emission regulations. We may have got 100 more of each based on normal % of production.

Porsche senior execs are on record as saying they don’t like they’re cars ending up as investments and seeing flippers making huge money...they’d much rather make 20% more cars and see more normal market values and see the cars getting driven. You don’t want to flush things down the toilet but they’re a long way from doing that.

Don’t know how right these numbers are but my guess is they are about right given the increase in allocation to the UK....the increase in production numbers of 991.2 over 991.1 is pretty big and massive compared to earlier cars. I really don’t see 992 production being reduced.



Came from here https://www.porscheknowledge.com/gt3-production-bu...

I don't think the numbers built are necessarily and arbiter of value or residuals.

Just compare the numbers of 997.1 GT3 and 997.2 GT3 RS as a good example. It' more about the qualitative judgment of the respective cars IMHO.

Similarly, the numbers of 996 RS are not really keeping values anywhere near the similarly rare 4.0 RS.

This is spot on. As I've said before, I run my 991.2 GT3 manual CS daily. Its a good car in isolation but it's not great when compared to other GT3's that came before. There are shed loads of them as well. Buy, enjoy and put miles on them, but you are deluded if you think that this car is the "one" and that it will somehow be worth more in a few years time. The 992 will be faster and more capable. The touring will make a great daily

[Porsche911R]

JulierPass said:

This is spot on. As I've said before, I run my 991.2 GT3 manual CS daily. Its a good car in isolation but it's not great when compared to other GT3's that came before.

I have said 2 years ago this car is an iconic grail car.

Guess what popped up this week
https://youtu.be/e2zWdIlIX4Y

Goto 3 minutes in, and Harris now says, this sts all over the old cars and is the holy grail of cars.
With the normal “bearded rose tinted specs of older car owners hype”

He also said which I have also said, it's already too fast for the road, so any new version of it is pointless.

Funny that he has just said every thing I said 2 years ago about the 991.2 manual and the new engine.