991.2 GT3 sell now or keep dilemma
Discussion
av185 said:
The 991.2 GT3 is more broadly more focused and 'hardcore' than its predecessor 991.1 GT3.
I haven't driven one so will take your word for it. On paper and from all the reviews I've read the Gen 2 appears to mean iterative beneficial improvements in lots of areas except the engine where Porsche had to introduce a step change due to the Gen 1 engine failures (and of course the obvious manual option which they said they would never do). It may be more than the sum of its parts but as for being on the whole more hardcore, I suppose it's all relative and based on your reference points?Heathrow said:
On the whole - is a buyer of a 991 GT3 looking for a similar experience as a 997 GT3 owner? The later cars are so much more habitable and usable, less of a niche if you like. So the higher build numbers thing becomes a bit moot as the potential market is that much bigger. To put it another way, putting aside perceived investment value, how big, really, is the market for a 996 GT3 RS or 997 GT3 RS as tool for driving pleasure amongst the driving public at large (i.e. the universe beyond PH)? Not large I'd say.
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I think if you tick that manual option box, yes they are, and not being funny but imo the 991.2 makes more noises inside the car then the 997 GT3 so the 997 makes abetter daily if anything !.
there is a l lot more going on noise wise driving a 991.2 manual over a 997 Gt3. I would say you have to pitch the modern 991.2 Manual vs the 3.8RS with the short ratio's and lwf then there is a £40k gap and that's the real choice.
what you have with a 991.2 and even the 997 is the choice of comfort seats and in the latter model PDK to ease the daily grind.
But spec for spec Clubsport vs Clubsport then yes the new car offers every thing the old car does plus that engine, it's the DNA of a GT3.
Most of the parts are the very same parts from a 997 in the sus just a revised ed E but parts you can buy which bolt direct to a 997 from a 991.2.
the car you can drive to track days and put in pretty amazing times. Same parts, same layout better engine.
the 991.1 lost it's way with no manual and "that" engine, but it was soon fixed in the .2 on both accounts.
I would like to get to a point I can run the 2 side by side and pick the keeper as the only downside on the 991.2 Manual is it's too much car for the road.
but get one on track and it runs rings round a 997.
Heathrow said:
I haven't driven one so will take your word for it. On paper and from all the reviews I've read the Gen 2 appears to mean iterative beneficial improvements in lots of areas except the engine where Porsche had to introduce a step change due to the Gen 1 engine failures (and of course the obvious manual option which they said they would never do). It may be more than the sum of its parts but as for being on the whole more hardcore, I suppose it's all relative and based on your reference points?
the .2 in manual has a real diff and is amore honest car to drive over a 991.1 or a 991.2 PDK with their E-diffs. Heathrow said:
av185 said:
The 991.2 GT3 is more broadly more focused and 'hardcore' than its predecessor 991.1 GT3.
I haven't driven one so will take your word for it. On paper and from all the reviews I've read the Gen 2 appears to mean iterative beneficial improvements in lots of areas except the engine where Porsche had to introduce a step change due to the Gen 1 engine failures (and of course the obvious manual option which they said they would never do). It may be more than the sum of its parts but as for being on the whole more hardcore, I suppose it's all relative and based on your reference points?Far less weight saving sound insulation in the gen 2 stones on the arches are very prevalent. The steering is heavier than the 991 R and the manual gearbox notchier in a good way and more direct than both the 911R and Touring and the ride firmer but still relatively compliant with less of a road bias.
Thankfully the hideous gen 1 bag of nails drivetrain and flywheel clatter disappeared from the gen 1 with the gen 2 but unfortunately Porsche made the clutch too light for a Porsche GT imo bizarrely being even lighter than the 718 GT4. One of the worst points of the car imo.
av185 said:
Thankfully the hideous gen 1 bag of nails drivetrain and flywheel clatter disappeared from the gen 1 with the gen 2 but unfortunately Porsche made the clutch too light for a Porsche GT imo bizarrely being even lighter than the 718 GT4. One of the worst points of the car imo.
or it's best point and what's kept me from a 997.2 RS GT car with a iffy knee.no need for hard controls, it adds nothing for me anyway bar needing pain killers and physiotherapy after every drive !
you press it, you release it, that's all it needs to do, nothing more, having a clutch fight you when trying to flat shift would be horrid, you bang the clutch to try and get a 2/10th shift on WOT.
Porsche911R said:
av185 said:
Thankfully the hideous gen 1 bag of nails drivetrain and flywheel clatter disappeared from the gen 1 with the gen 2 but unfortunately Porsche made the clutch too light for a Porsche GT imo bizarrely being even lighter than the 718 GT4. One of the worst points of the car imo.
or it's best point and what's kept me from a 997.2 RS GT car with a iffy knee.no need for hard controls, it adds nothing for me anyway bar needing pain killers and physiotherapy after every drive !
you press it, you release it, that's all it needs to do, nothing more, having a clutch fight you when trying to flat shift would be horrid, you bang the clutch to try and get a 2/10th shift on WOT.
But I do think Porsche even on a new GT car along with its ethos should have weighted the 991.2 clutch similar to the slightly heavier 981 GT4 clutch especially bearing in mind it is mated to one the best action manual gearboxes they have made.
av185 said:
We talked about this before and yes if you have an iffy knee it would welcome a lighter clutch I guess.
But I do think Porsche even on a new GT car along with its ethos should have weighted the 991.2 clutch similar to the slightly heavier 981 GT4 clutch especially bearing in mind it is mated to one the best action manual gearboxes they have made.
maybe but I have never met any one in my life you wants a heavy clutch.But I do think Porsche even on a new GT car along with its ethos should have weighted the 991.2 clutch similar to the slightly heavier 981 GT4 clutch especially bearing in mind it is mated to one the best action manual gearboxes they have made.
I wonder if you could change the return spring, in my Golf CS you can just up clip the spring (there are 2) on the clutch to make it harder.
the 991.2 might be just a helper spring you can remove or replace. I don't have PET access on this car sadly only the CUP cars which of course don't have one.
Any one have 991.2 PET PDF ?
Porsche911R said:
maybe but I have never met any one in my life you wants a heavy clutch.
D'you even lift bro!?I hear plenty complaining about the 997 GT3 clutch and I have honestly no idea what the big deal is. Unless you do happen to have a specific, left-side, physical impairment - dodgy knee, hip. ankle etc. etc. - and in which case I can absolutely also see why PDK would be the way head.
av185 said:
We talked about this before and yes if you have an iffy knee it would welcome a lighter clutch I guess.
But I do think Porsche even on a new GT car along with its ethos should have weighted the 991.2 clutch similar to the slightly heavier 981 GT4 clutch especially bearing in mind it is mated to one the best action manual gearboxes they have made.
I found the clutch in my old 981 GT4 unnecessarily heavy especially compared to the much lighter clutch in my 991.3 GT3. For me the lighter clutch in the GT3 adds a degree of usability with no downside. Bizarrely the GT3 with its lighter clutch and nose lift is way more practical and useable than the GT4 was.But I do think Porsche even on a new GT car along with its ethos should have weighted the 991.2 clutch similar to the slightly heavier 981 GT4 clutch especially bearing in mind it is mated to one the best action manual gearboxes they have made.
Obviously I don't use it for getting around London but because I live in central London wherever I go in the GT3 I'm at least an hour in traffic either end of any journey and the GT3 is just more pleasant to drive because of it's lighter clutch.
Digga said:
D'you even lift bro!?
I hear plenty complaining about the 997 GT3 clutch and I have honestly no idea what the big deal is. Unless you do happen to have a specific, left-side, physical impairment - dodgy knee, hip. ankle etc. etc. - and in which case I can absolutely also see why PDK would be the way head.
Re 997 gt3 clutch.I hear plenty complaining about the 997 GT3 clutch and I have honestly no idea what the big deal is. Unless you do happen to have a specific, left-side, physical impairment - dodgy knee, hip. ankle etc. etc. - and in which case I can absolutely also see why PDK would be the way head.
I have driven 5 of them and it still
Freaks me out because 3 of them the clutch was manageable and 2 of them the clutch was too heavy .There was no logical reason for that ,but it was the case .
franki68 said:
Re 997 gt3 clutch.
I have driven 5 of them and it still
Freaks me out because 3 of them the clutch was manageable and 2 of them the clutch was too heavy .There was no logical reason for that ,but it was the case .
It's got to be this. Car dependent. Same thing when ppl talk about a heavy clutch on the GT4, I couldn't understand what the complaint was as my old car's clutch weight was barely any different than most mainstream cars.I have driven 5 of them and it still
Freaks me out because 3 of them the clutch was manageable and 2 of them the clutch was too heavy .There was no logical reason for that ,but it was the case .
franki68 said:
Digga said:
D'you even lift bro!?
I hear plenty complaining about the 997 GT3 clutch and I have honestly no idea what the big deal is. Unless you do happen to have a specific, left-side, physical impairment - dodgy knee, hip. ankle etc. etc. - and in which case I can absolutely also see why PDK would be the way head.
Re 997 gt3 clutch.I hear plenty complaining about the 997 GT3 clutch and I have honestly no idea what the big deal is. Unless you do happen to have a specific, left-side, physical impairment - dodgy knee, hip. ankle etc. etc. - and in which case I can absolutely also see why PDK would be the way head.
I have driven 5 of them and it still
Freaks me out because 3 of them the clutch was manageable and 2 of them the clutch was too heavy .There was no logical reason for that ,but it was the case .
its def strange, my GT4 was never hard either. but I did not get the clanks or the wine in my GT4 most moan about or the gearbox issue as it was splined in my car.
goes to show big changes on the same cars.
Although I have been in 6 or 7 997.2 RS and it's always been heavy, the normal 997 GT3 less so.
goes to show big changes on the same cars.
Although I have been in 6 or 7 997.2 RS and it's always been heavy, the normal 997 GT3 less so.
franki68 said:
Digga said:
Interesting. Clutch can't be that much different in the 996 turbo either and my old car was not a chore in that regard either.
The 996 turbo clutch was a bit heavy,I had quite a few back issues when I had that car,loved it though.I do think there must be variations, from car to car.
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
The 991.2 gt3 is the highest produced Porsche GT car to date.
Goes to show how successful the GT range is to to the Porsche brand.
Problem will be in years to come as supply out strips demand.
Not really and it depends which way you look at production numbers.Goes to show how successful the GT range is to to the Porsche brand.
Problem will be in years to come as supply out strips demand.
Supply won't outstrip demand thats why even now approaching Xmas with all the associated headwinds av spec cars are still above list retail even with above av mileage and at 3 years old.
Don't forget of the 622 total UK GT3s 40 odd were manual Tourings the remainder split four ways basically between comfort manual comfort PDK CS manual and CS PDK so 5 subsections of the same car.
Whereas with the c600 981 GT4s these comprised all manuals with only 2 subsections of comfort and CS also factor in 718 manual numbers v only 332 991.1 GT3s all PDK and the total volume of GT4s of similar specs far exceeds 991 GT3 numbers.
Edited by av185 on Sunday 15th November 22:29
Once the new latest and greatest 992 gt lands there is going to be plenty for sale, and that’s purely down to the 9500 made.
When you consider they only produced 682 996 gt3 rs cars worldwide, the demand for the 991 has been huge and both series have been produced in far far higher numbers.
The big question is, as a number of people now don’t see these are free motoring will the demand still be there?
Porsche911R said:
He is one of the very few who can drive and while funny with understeer on every GT3 model, you get a feel for the cars and what makes them fun to own/drive.
Most Jurno's now are after click bait and every review is 100% perfect on every car today, even the new BMW M every one loves the grill !
out in the real would every one hates it. Even Sutcliffe and the old guys have had to resort to exciting positive reviews which you cannot believe.
If Harris put his own money where his mouth is on the cars he wants to own you know they are going to be fun.
the 991.2 manual is a very special car, you can tell that within 10 ,miles of driving it. Very few Porkers are Special. Most can be great but few are Special.
Yes you can always improve on them as Porsche GT dept are a strange bunch stuck in stone on a few things.
But drop 250 lbs and fit some TTX dampers, the 991.2 GT3 is about the best thing on the road today, in fact it's already iconic standard.
if you have owned many many cars and driven a million miles you just know a special car.
some times people big up their own cars because they have kept them and know what's good, I have slagged off just about ever car I have owned, hence owning so many. So trying to work out who is bigging up cars as it's all they have on some massive PCP or who is bigging up cars because they are great. A big tell is always what Jurno's buy with their own money I find.
As an owner of one from new I don't get how you can call it "special". I can objectively say, given the 8 GT cars I have in my garage that the least special is the 991.2. I'll admit its the easiest to live with and to drive quickly, but it simply doesn't require the same level of ability to get the best out of it that all of the previous cars did. RWS and a wider front track have made it so. IMO half the fun in 911's has been learning how to get the best out of them. The 991 robs you of the majority of this skill set as is so much easier to rotate the car and doesn't require you to treat it in a certain way to get the best out of it. Most Jurno's now are after click bait and every review is 100% perfect on every car today, even the new BMW M every one loves the grill !
out in the real would every one hates it. Even Sutcliffe and the old guys have had to resort to exciting positive reviews which you cannot believe.
If Harris put his own money where his mouth is on the cars he wants to own you know they are going to be fun.
the 991.2 manual is a very special car, you can tell that within 10 ,miles of driving it. Very few Porkers are Special. Most can be great but few are Special.
Yes you can always improve on them as Porsche GT dept are a strange bunch stuck in stone on a few things.
But drop 250 lbs and fit some TTX dampers, the 991.2 GT3 is about the best thing on the road today, in fact it's already iconic standard.
if you have owned many many cars and driven a million miles you just know a special car.
some times people big up their own cars because they have kept them and know what's good, I have slagged off just about ever car I have owned, hence owning so many. So trying to work out who is bigging up cars as it's all they have on some massive PCP or who is bigging up cars because they are great. A big tell is always what Jurno's buy with their own money I find.
franki68 said:
The 996 turbo clutch was a bit heavy,I had quite a few back issues when I had that car,loved it though.
You must have had an issue with the slave cylinder or accumulator as the 996 clutch is exceptionally light to press by designNothing like a 997gt3 as mentioned a few posts up - you can't compare a hydraulically assisted clutch to one without that assistance.
JulierPass said:
As an owner of one from new I don't get how you can call it "special". I can objectively say, given the 8 GT cars I have in my garage that the least special is the 991.2. I'll admit its the easiest to live with and to drive quickly, but it simply doesn't require the same level of ability to get the best out of it that all of the previous cars did. RWS and a wider front track have made it so. IMO half the fun in 911's has been learning how to get the best out of them. The 991 robs you of the majority of this skill set as is so much easier to rotate the car and doesn't require you to treat it in a certain way to get the best out of it.
just different diving style that's all. I would rather drive mid engine stuff, it's more my style when leaning to drive fast in my Lotus days, the 991.2 drives a bit more mid engine I feel, don't make it any easier to drive fast, just different. Front tracks not that wide vs the 992 cars it's still a 911 on quite thin front 245 tyres and still understeers vs other cars I have unless you drive it right, the DNA is still there and the sus is the same parts and layout as a 996 GT3 from 1999. if you want turn in, the RS 265's front tyres even wider track and E-diff offer that in spaces over a manual GT3.RWS brings nothing to the party imo.
I see very few on track driven fast, so not sure how easy you think it is, the only cars setting alight times is either Jonny C or Tim harvey and both of those are PDK anyway.
pop a 1.13 in your .2 manual at donny nest summer I might sit up and take note as you do race it would in interesting what sort of time you could post in a manual .2 there.
I know I cannot put in such a time so for me it's not that easy to pilot and the cars a lot better than I am so a total challenge.
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