991.2 GT3 sell now or keep dilemma

[Dr S]

f1ten said:

I've never raced but done a few track days and it is so addictive. Agree like most have said- go and race and tick the box if you can. For sure gt3 and most other supercars will be cheaper in a year as we return to a more normal market.

Racing is expensive and it very much helps if you are really good at man math. But the fun is priceless

[av185]

Taffy66 said:

To the guys who have paid silly overs for the 991,2GT3s and equally others who have lost over £70K in six months on a 600LT,720S or 488 then i salute you sirs..!
I only wish i'd had been given a brain to create enough wealth to be able to take £70K hits on every supercar i purchased..After one hit like that i'd be well and truly in the doghouse..!
Does this make me less of an enthusiast, or just my natural abhorrence of wasting huge wads of cash compared to spending it wisely..This is why i bought a £130K 458 rather than a £250K new 488..

Agree Taffy and personally I take the view that anyone losing £70k and more in 6 months on any car is either too wealthy or too stupid. Ok we all like to spec a car exactly how we like and there are certain other advantages but a brand new car can also be a pita including having to run in etc which can take years at 2k miles a year with other cars at your disposal.

Also with the exception of the 600LT its not as if the other cars you mention and other interesting stuff is short in supply so a particular spec is fairly easy to come by on a used example even though it may take a few months to find.

Interesting subject too on the forecasts for residuals next year and notwithstanding a full blown recession and mounting German economic issues don't forget that in 2008/9 prices recovered as quickly as they tanked and anyone panic selling then subsequently trying to buy back often learnt a painful lesson financially.

Whilst it is admittedly slightly easier with cars than stock or even property markets to attempt to try and time the market this is very easy to get very wrong and imo it is often more down to luck than knowlege.

[f1ten]

Yes but difference this time is there are many many more exotic super cars you can choose from so the market has had 3+ years of large supply and add in the new pcp game to measure also.

[cypriot]

how many buyers of these cars could only afford to buy them as they were viewed as "free motoring". This is the biggest thing in my opinion... You bought a gt3/rs/v8 ferrari safe in the knowledge that you could use it for a couple of years and shift it on with little financial concern. Now that this is no longer the case with ferraris, and that gt3s are also starting to slide, plus the massive increase of production numbers and also the faster model replacement, I smell a blood bath once the recession truly starts next year.

[Captain James T]

Not quite the same specification, but one of the best value .2 GT3s is still about £36,000 more than a .1 GT3.

Is that worth the extra?

https://www.barrybrown.co.uk/used-porsche-911-wiga...

https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/911-GT3-98675

[av185]

cypriot said:

how many buyers of these cars could only afford to buy them as they were viewed as "free motoring". This is the biggest thing in my opinion... You bought a gt3/rs/v8 ferrari safe in the knowledge that you could use it for a couple of years and shift it on with little financial concern. Now that this is no longer the case with ferraris, and that gt3s are also starting to slide, plus the massive increase of production numbers and also the faster model replacement, I smell a blood bath once the recession truly starts next year.

As ever, the best cars will shine through bloodbath or not.

Mentioned before but we are seeing this already with the 981 GT4 price hikes even approaching the winter lull.

Imo money is safer in a car like the 991.2 GT3 than anything else on offer atm and those selling into the winter recess could well be bailing at the worst possible time.

[av185]

Captain James T said:

Not quite the same specification, but one of the best value .2 GT3s is still about £36,000 more than a .1 GT3.

Is that worth the extra?

https://www.barrybrown.co.uk/used-porsche-911-wiga...

https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/911-GT3-98675

Interesting that 991.1 GT3 even at 5 years old and 20 k miles with 4 owners and poverty spec with no extended leather placcy dash and comfort seats is only £5k behind otr list price ££.

[Porsche911R]

cypriot said:

I smell a blood bath once the recession truly starts next year.

But we are NOT heading for a recession !

[Porsche911R]

Taffy66 said:

To the guys who have paid silly overs for the 991,2GT3s and equally others who have lost over £70K in six months on a 600LT,720S or 488 then i salute you sirs..!
I only wish i'd had been given a brain to create enough wealth to be able to take £70K hits on every supercar i purchased..After one hit like that i'd be well and truly in the doghouse..!
Does this make me less of an enthusiast, or just my natural abhorrence of wasting huge wads of cash compared to spending it wisely..This is why i bought a £130K 458 rather than a £250K new 488..

991.1 RS were £285k at the start, now £150k

So far worse than any macca or ferrari if you buy porkers at overs.

[Cheib]

cayman-black said:

I do prefer white dials but the red looks fine to me , not a deal breaker.

I wouldn’t personally spec the red dials and if a car was right it wouldn’t stop me buying it. Yellow dials on the other hand!!!

[av185]

Porsche911R said:

991.1 RS were £285k at the start, now £150k

So far worse than any macca or ferrari if you buy porkers at overs.

But say you paid £285k for a 16 plate minimal mileage say 4 month old 991.1 RS which is worth £150k now. 3 years use.

A £270k (with spec) 2017 720S is around £150k now. 2 years use.

The McLaren has effectively lost more money and is probably more mileage sensitive too.

[Mattjevans]

cypriot said:

how many buyers of these cars could only afford to buy them as they were viewed as "free motoring". This is the biggest thing in my opinion... You bought a gt3/rs/v8 ferrari safe in the knowledge that you could use it for a couple of years and shift it on with little financial concern. Now that this is no longer the case with ferraris, and that gt3s are also starting to slide, plus the massive increase of production numbers and also the faster model replacement, I smell a blood bath once the recession truly starts next year.

Totally agreed. Recession or not, it will be a bloodbath just due to the model cycle. I’d be furious if I’d got a Pista in the last 12 months - in fact there is one at a local specialist with 80 miles on it because the owner “doesn’t want it”, I suspect because the F8 Tributo makes it much less special - if you bought a 488 you’re really fked, those will go below 458’s soon. And that’s just Ferrari, who have arguably been the best at defending used prices in the past. Look at 12C prices and that’s the McLaren story.

[Taffy66]

Cheib said:

I wouldn’t personally spec the red dials and if a car was right it wouldn’t stop me buying it. Yellow dials on the other hand!!!

Its all subjective at the end of the day,,I have yellow dials on my Ferrari and i love them,,They match the yellow brake calipers which seem to be a desirable match..On this GT3 with red dials i think they work OK as they match the brakes, they would look awful if the car had yellow PCCBs IMO..
In short i don't think they're as much of a deal breaker as some on here seem to think...PCCBs on any 991.2GT3 seems to be necessary for a quick sale without asking pitiful low money.

[av185]

Mattjevans said:

Totally agreed. Recession or not, it will be a bloodbath just due to the model cycle. I’d be furious if I’d got a Pista in the last 12 months - in fact there is one at a local specialist with 80 miles on it because the owner “doesn’t want it”

Can't imagine the owner is that furious at the prospect of a minimum £100k premium ££.

[Cheib]

Taffy66 said:

Cheib said:

I wouldn’t personally spec the red dials and if a car was right it wouldn’t stop me buying it. Yellow dials on the other hand!!!

Its all subjective at the end of the day,,I have yellow dials on my Ferrari and i love them,,They match the yellow brake calipers which seem to be a desirable match..On this GT3 with red dials i think they work OK as they match the brakes, they would look awful if the car had yellow PCCBs IMO..
In short i don't think they're as much of a deal breaker as some on here seem to think...PCCBs on any 991.2GT3 seems to be necessary for a quick sale without asking pitiful low money.

Yellow dial on a Fezzer are all part of the deal like the shields on the wing! Don’t know why but they work on a Ferrari but not on a Porsche...not that I am about to buy a Ferrari!

[breadvan]

I’ve driven many PEC cars and thought, wow i’d never spec this, and 2 minutes later just thought, wow what a car.......

[ChrisW.]

cypriot said:

how many buyers of these cars could only afford to buy them as they were viewed as "free motoring". This is the biggest thing in my opinion... You bought a gt3/rs/v8 ferrari safe in the knowledge that you could use it for a couple of years and shift it on with little financial concern. Now that this is no longer the case with ferraris, and that gt3s are also starting to slide, plus the massive increase of production numbers and also the faster model replacement, I smell a blood bath once the recession truly starts next year.

Even worse, buyers were told how lucky they were to be able to buy one of these cars that P were literally stuffing into the market.

250ish GT4's became over 500 ... fair enough, that was a great value car.
Add in GT3's / GT3RS / GT3R / GT2 RS ?

Then add this total to all the classic GT cars that have accumulated in the market over the last 20 years ... how many buyers are there ?

I think Porsche cars are a class act, but I think Porsche distribution should expect a very serious backlash.

And then, petrol became un-PC ....

[djroj2001]

ChrisW. said:

cypriot said:

how many buyers of these cars could only afford to buy them as they were viewed as "free motoring". This is the biggest thing in my opinion... You bought a gt3/rs/v8 ferrari safe in the knowledge that you could use it for a couple of years and shift it on with little financial concern. Now that this is no longer the case with ferraris, and that gt3s are also starting to slide, plus the massive increase of production numbers and also the faster model replacement, I smell a blood bath once the recession truly starts next year.

Even worse, buyers were told how lucky they were to be able to buy one of these cars that P were literally stuffing into the market.

250ish GT4's became over 500 ... fair enough, that was a great value car.
Add in GT3's / GT3RS / GT3R / GT2 RS ?

Then add this total to all the classic GT cars that have accumulated in the market over the last 20 years ... how many buyers are there ?

I think Porsche cars are a class act, but I think Porsche distribution should expect a very serious backlash.

And then, petrol became un-PC ....

In my opinion this is the absolute key point here. Brexit/recession etc are just potential headwinds that noone can predict.

The main point is Porsche has been stuffing the market with huge numbers of GT cars in the latest model cycle and anyone thinking that won't have an effect on the future value of these cars has their head in the sand. GT3/RS/GT4.... take your pick, all of them produced in huge numbers compared to previous iterations.

Brexit or no brexit, recession or no recession.... the supply is there to mean that these cars will not hold value like many are used to. The confidence has evaporated and the flippers are gone... we are back to a normal market where you buy a car and expect to wear some depreciation, albeit Porsche will still hold values relatively well compared to a lot of other marques.

[av185]

djroj2001 said:

The confidence has evaporated and the flippers are gone... we are back to a normal market.

Guaranteed flipped 718 GT4s/718 Spyders at £115k+ in the UK before Christmas suggests otherwise.

[djroj2001]

av185 said:

Guaranteed flipped 718 GT4s/718 Spyders at £115k+ in the UK before Christmas suggests otherwise.

2 points on that:

1) where is the evidence that these are trading and what level?
2) there is a big difference between a flipped GT4 and a flipped GT3/RS purely because of the list price

as a more general point, if you really insist on burying your head in the sand, just look what is happening to 991.2 GT3 prices. They are losing 2.5k a week, thats just using an average of offer prices that are actually available for everyone to see