PCCB out braked the steels last night on 5th gear.
Discussion
isaldiri said:
pete.g said:
isaldiri said:
accurate if your braking force remains the same for a heavier car. It does not for the purposes of earlier example as the car slows at the force of friction from tyre to road....
KE = 0.5 mv^2 = force x distance = work done to stop the car.
Force being coefficient of friction x mass x gravitational acceleration.
Mass cancels on both sides of the equation.
I'm all ears if someone can disprove the above btw as well.
The kinetic energy of the car is determined by its mass and velocity - this gives us a figure in joulesKE = 0.5 mv^2 = force x distance = work done to stop the car.
Force being coefficient of friction x mass x gravitational acceleration.
Mass cancels on both sides of the equation.
I'm all ears if someone can disprove the above btw as well.
The force required to stop the car is this energy divided by the distance taken to stop - this gives us a figure in newtons.
You don't have an equation, as you don't equate energy and force, as they are not the same thing, therefore the mass is included, both to determine the energy and the force required (the work) to either create it or dissipate it. While there is a principle of conservation of energy, there is not one for force,
Work done is a figure in joules or it was last time I checked (you might want to disagree here I suppose), that is force x distance and that is what I am equating to kinetic energy. Distance being braking distance obviously and force being tyre coefficient of friction x weight of the car (in newtons).
pete.g said:
Obviously there are other factors but add to the mass and you will either need more force to stop in the same distance or more distance to stop.
The motorcycle will stop more slowly than the car because it has smaller friction surfaces, but if you add a pillion it will take further to stop if the brake force remains the same.
pete.g said:
There will be a very complex formula with coefficient of friction, tyre contact patch, temperature, mechanical resistance, air resistance included - but all of it will be determined by mass, which is a key variable and speed, which is the greatest factor.
As an aside where on earth is fioran0 if slippy or someone else might know? He would (I hope anyway) get the point I have been trying to make and would be able to far better explain it than me.
Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 20th November 16:12
As the work is dependent on mass, a motorcycle with the same power as a car will accelerate more quickly as it has less mass - it is better able to do the work, even if it has less traction. Obviously it has much less air resistance as well.
Whether a difference of few kgs for each brake disc makes a huge difference is difficult to say, but any decrease in weight reduces the amount of braking force needed.
You cannae rewrite the laws of physics.
ETA - mass is also used to work out the coefficient of friction . . .
Edited by pete.g on Wednesday 20th November 17:22
Knowing Slippy he still hasn't got off the floor after collapsing with hysterical laughter after reading your nonsense..Over a dozen very well informed people on here have rubbished your deluded claim that a heavier car will stop in the same distance as a light one..
Go stick your head in a bucket of ice cold water to cool your head down. Even you should realise that you've breached the limit on how much of a fool someone should make of himself in 24 hours.
Go stick your head in a bucket of ice cold water to cool your head down. Even you should realise that you've breached the limit on how much of a fool someone should make of himself in 24 hours.
pete.g said:
Work is indeed measured in joules, so if you want the force required to stop a car, it is the work (in Joules) divided by the distance in meters to give the force in newtons.
As the work is dependent on mass, a motorcycle with the same power as a car will accelerate more quickly as it has less mass - it is better able to do the work, even if it has less traction. Obviously it has much less air resistance as well.
Whether a difference of few kgs for each brake disc makes a huge difference is difficult to say, but any decrease in weight reduces the amount of braking force needed.
You cannae rewrite the laws of physics.
I am not rewriting the laws of physics either am I?As the work is dependent on mass, a motorcycle with the same power as a car will accelerate more quickly as it has less mass - it is better able to do the work, even if it has less traction. Obviously it has much less air resistance as well.
Whether a difference of few kgs for each brake disc makes a huge difference is difficult to say, but any decrease in weight reduces the amount of braking force needed.
You cannae rewrite the laws of physics.
Yes decrease in weight reduces the amount of braking force needed but if your brakes can apply more than that amount of force (and realistically you can do that even at pretty damn high speeds on a road tyre) then you are tyre limited.
Do you disagree with
work done to stop the car = tyre coefficient of friction x mass x gravitational constant x distance?
Taffy66 said:
Knowing Slippy he still hasn't got off the floor after collapsing with hysterical laughter after reading your nonsense..Over a dozen very well informed people on here have rubbished your deluded claim that a heavier car will stop in the same distance as a light one..
Go stick your head in a bucket of ice cold water to cool your head down. Even you should realise that you've breached the limit on how much of a fool someone should make of himself in 24 hours.
well at least I haven't made the mistake of claiming downforce increases tyre coefficient of friction....Go stick your head in a bucket of ice cold water to cool your head down. Even you should realise that you've breached the limit on how much of a fool someone should make of himself in 24 hours.
isaldiri said:
pete.g said:
Work is indeed measured in joules, so if you want the force required to stop a car, it is the work (in Joules) divided by the distance in meters to give the force in newtons.
As the work is dependent on mass, a motorcycle with the same power as a car will accelerate more quickly as it has less mass - it is better able to do the work, even if it has less traction. Obviously it has much less air resistance as well.
Whether a difference of few kgs for each brake disc makes a huge difference is difficult to say, but any decrease in weight reduces the amount of braking force needed.
You cannae rewrite the laws of physics.
I am not rewriting the laws of physics either am I?As the work is dependent on mass, a motorcycle with the same power as a car will accelerate more quickly as it has less mass - it is better able to do the work, even if it has less traction. Obviously it has much less air resistance as well.
Whether a difference of few kgs for each brake disc makes a huge difference is difficult to say, but any decrease in weight reduces the amount of braking force needed.
You cannae rewrite the laws of physics.
Yes decrease in weight reduces the amount of braking force needed but if your brakes can apply more than that amount of force (and realistically you can do that even at pretty damn high speeds on a road tyre) then you are tyre limited.
Do you disagree with
work done to stop the car = tyre coefficient of friction x mass x gravitational constant x distance?
If you are changing the amount of braking force, you are doing it for a reason - speed, mass, friction. You brake harder for a reason and mass is one of them.
My formula is the same as yours - Work = Force X Distance is the same as Work/Force = Distance. But you want to cancel out the mass, which you can't do, as you need the value in joules.
Feel free to disagree - it's an internet forum, but if you look carefully at what you have said above you are actually agreeing with me and others.
pete.g said:
That calculation includes mass, which is you stated was not a factor
Hold on, I said it was not a factor in braking distance when tyre limited. Not that it wasn't a factor.pete.g said:
If you are changing the amount of braking force, you are doing it for a reason - speed, mass, friction. You brake harder for a reason and mass is one of them.
My formula is the same as yours - Work = Force X Distance is the same as Work/Force = Distance. But you want to cancel out the mass, which you can't do, as you need the value in joules.
Feel free to disagree - it's an internet forum, but if you look carefully at what you have said above you are actually agreeing with me and others.
Ok good so we agree on the same formula which is in joulesMy formula is the same as yours - Work = Force X Distance is the same as Work/Force = Distance. But you want to cancel out the mass, which you can't do, as you need the value in joules.
Feel free to disagree - it's an internet forum, but if you look carefully at what you have said above you are actually agreeing with me and others.
Work = Force X Distance = tyre coefficient of friction x mass x gravitational constant x distance
Conservation of energy then equates that to the kinetic energy of the car KE= 0.5 x mass x v(squared) which also in joules which is converted to heat.
Does mass cancel out if you solve for distance which in my book should be: d = v (squared) / (mu x g x 2 )
P.S I am prepared to concede increase in vertical load will affect tyre coefficient but that effect is not imo relevant without a big increase in said vertical loads. there is a graph of vertical load to coefficient on a slick floating around somewhere that I think shows this.
Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 20th November 18:26
In conclusion ...
- The speed when you start braking has the main affect on the minimum braking distance achievable (by the speed squared).
- A heavier car (increased mass) does not change the minimum braking distance as it increases tire to road friction but has more mass to stop and they cancel each other out.
- Aero downforce reduces the minimum braking distance because it increases tire to road friction without increasing mass.
- The speed when you start braking has the main affect on the energy required to stop the car (by the speed squared).
- A heavier car (increased mass) takes more energy to stop than a lighter car.
- Aero downforce does not change the amount of energy required to stop the car.
- For a car of a certain mass travelling at a certain speed the kinetic energy the car contains = 0.5 x mass x speed squared.
- To stop a car all the kinetic energy in the car has to be turned into thermal energy (heat) by the friction of the pads on the disks.
Edited by C4ME on Wednesday 20th November 21:12
stef1808 said:
Presume banned due to costs
Removed mine and went steel setup on my track car for same reason.
No comparison now running the cup cars brakes vs the standard PCCB re stopping power
I’ve driven 997 cups on steels and a 997 super cup on ceramics. There was nothing in it . The steels were easier to modulate Removed mine and went steel setup on my track car for same reason.
No comparison now running the cup cars brakes vs the standard PCCB re stopping power
Taffy66 said:
Well I have to say I reckon I am doing something right given you and 991R are in agreement and on opposite sides of what I think about something that doesn't concern stitching/leather dash/used car prices and requires a modicum of thinking and basic arithmetic... C4ME said:
In conclusion ...
- The speed when you start braking has the main affect on the minimum braking distance achievable (by the speed squared).
- A heavier car (increased mass) does not change the minimum braking distance as it increases tire to road friction but has more mass to stop and they cancel each other out.
- Aero downforce reduces the minimum braking distance because it increases tire to road friction without increasing mass.
- The speed when you start braking has the main affect on the energy required to stop the car (by the speed squared).
- A heavier car (increased mass) takes more energy to stop than a lighter car.
- Aero downforce does not change the amount of energy required to stop the car.
- For a car of a certain mass travelling at a certain speed the kinetic energy the car contains = 0.5 x mass x speed squared.
- To stop a car all the kinetic energy in the car has to be turned into thermal energy (heat) by the friction of the pads on the disks.
Good lord, be careful the pitchforks are going to be coming for you soon for believing in such heresies......(especially point 2)
Funny thread, has anyone contacted EE yet to put an end to all this. Specifically regarding:
increase in mass with all other parameters remaining the same having no affect on braking distance as extra mass vs increase friction will cancel each other out.
Would love to see the same car laden with an extra 1000kg mass, do a 100-0mph braking distance in the same distance with the ton removed.
increase in mass with all other parameters remaining the same having no affect on braking distance as extra mass vs increase friction will cancel each other out.
Would love to see the same car laden with an extra 1000kg mass, do a 100-0mph braking distance in the same distance with the ton removed.
Found this:
https://youtu.be/nO2G5IBh35Q
Clearly lots of factors that affect braking distance. No detail to be sure but those two trucks ought to have pretty similar tyres and brakes. Very different weight and weight distribution though.
https://youtu.be/nO2G5IBh35Q
Clearly lots of factors that affect braking distance. No detail to be sure but those two trucks ought to have pretty similar tyres and brakes. Very different weight and weight distribution though.
Digga said:
But in racing, there is the 'they zig, I zag' philosophy. You watch a skilled overtaker (alonso, in his day for example) and they will often weigh up the driver in front and then deliberately use a different line to get past. There can be more than one line.
Moreover, in relation to braking rather than exit speed.
SLow in fast out is old school, fast in faster out ;-)Moreover, in relation to braking rather than exit speed.
- That depends on whether the longer straight is before or after the bend in question
- Exit speed dictates your pace at the end of the next straight
- Slow in, fast out!
Alonso zig zag to make the car if front go OFF line or cover the inside line, keeping the over taking car on a faster line !
If you are on the fastest line and doing the perfect lap you cannot overtake a car unless you have drs or kers or a more powerfull car or less worn tyres etc etc.
you see people try and they out brake the car only to get repassed straight away as the car in front was doing the perfect braking point.
there is NOT more than one fastest line for qually, race craft there are will be different lines but they will be slower.
hence if two cars are playing silly buggers for 2nd and 3rd, 1st will have gained another 5 seconds lead and 4th will be back up your arse.
Steve Rance said:
I’ve driven 997 cups on steels and a 997 super cup on ceramics. There was nothing in it . The steels were easier to modulate
I run a 2010 PCCB car and a 2017 PCCB car both can be modulated to avoid ABS cut in no issue.PCCBS imo have less bite and imo the newer cars require a lot of pedal pressure and thus my 2017 car is even easier to threshold brake than my 2010 car, but neither is an issue. I would actually like more bite in the 2017 GT3 and will fit either endless or the Manthey Racing custom Pagid pad to my GT3 both are said to offer more bite and be kinder to disk wear.
Steve Rance said:
Porsche911R said:
that's the skill in lapping fast if you read my post above.
A highly skilled driver can threshold brake to a high degree of accuracy avoiding the ABS system or in a car without ABS avoid a lock up, watch F1 they manage ok ;-)
But F1 is a case in point, at 200 mph they are not locking a tyre down the straights under brakes, once the force over comes the grip you see F1 cars lock the unloaded wheel at the lower speeds.
lapping fast is all corner entry, we have talked about this before, you think it's all corner exit. but that's a by product of entry.
hence you see a lot of people over take under brakes to then get repasted straight away out the bend.
There is only 1 fastest line and there is only one braking point, get either wrong and you do a slower lap time !
Driving by numbers? Your braking points and lines would be exactly the same over the course of a sprint race or say 3 hour stint? You wouldnt change them? What about adjustable brake bias. Still only 1 fastest line and braking point? A highly skilled driver can threshold brake to a high degree of accuracy avoiding the ABS system or in a car without ABS avoid a lock up, watch F1 they manage ok ;-)
But F1 is a case in point, at 200 mph they are not locking a tyre down the straights under brakes, once the force over comes the grip you see F1 cars lock the unloaded wheel at the lower speeds.
lapping fast is all corner entry, we have talked about this before, you think it's all corner exit. but that's a by product of entry.
hence you see a lot of people over take under brakes to then get repasted straight away out the bend.
There is only 1 fastest line and there is only one braking point, get either wrong and you do a slower lap time !
Love your enthusiasm but I think that with posts like this you are sleepwalking towards planet dilettante
Look at the quotes,you can just buckle at the knees.
Only one fastest line
Old school slow in fast out
Never triggering abs
Cant trigger at high speeds
Non variable braking points
F1,
Fast in fast out
Go to to a race school
He is clearly back on the tablets
The famous race book of qoutes, the BS stops when the clock starts ticking at spa;)
May be we book a class room at spa,and get taff as teacher up front,us noughty boys sat at the back loaded with the board rubber and other bits to throw
,and then R comes in with his satchel,gives taff a apple and sits neatly at the front with pencil sharpened,oh and still with his shorts on.CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Funny thread, has anyone contacted EE yet to put an end to all this. Specifically regarding:
increase in mass with all other parameters remaining the same having no affect on braking distance as extra mass vs increase friction will cancel each other out.
Would love to see the same car laden with an extra 1000kg mass, do a 100-0mph braking distance in the same distance with the ton removed.
There are two sets of people arguing two different things here which seems to be causing confusion. Some are talking about how mass effects the minimum braking distance achievable and some are talking about the work the brakes have to do and both are calling it braking. I tried to sum it up in these two points increase in mass with all other parameters remaining the same having no affect on braking distance as extra mass vs increase friction will cancel each other out.
Would love to see the same car laden with an extra 1000kg mass, do a 100-0mph braking distance in the same distance with the ton removed.
- A heavier car (increased mass) does not change the minimum braking distance as it increases tire to road friction but has more mass to stop and they cancel each other out.
- A heavier car (increased mass) takes more energy to stop than a lighter car.
The second point is when adding extra mass it is going to take more energy to stop the car. This means the brakes have to do more work and will generate more heat doing that.
For a particular speed; if the shortest distance you can stop a 1000kg car without locking up is 30 meters then you can also stop a 2000kg car in the same distance (approx) without locking up. To do so you will need to apply twice as much braking force to the 2000kg car and twice as much heat will be generated in the brakes. If the brakes cannot achieve twice the braking force the 2000kg car will take longer to stop.
Edited by C4ME on Thursday 21st November 15:19
Steve Rance said:
Bingo. You are starting to work your way towards getting your GCSE. Now all you have to do is to work out why the braking point is never a constant - along with your line and then how that might change with engine layout and other dynamic mechanicalvariables, mix that in with weather etc. and then throw all that into a pot and figure out your fastest line and braking point for each lap to get your A level. Then you've got to translate that into practice and your real learning starts.
I started racing a long time ago. 30 years on, I'm still learning and realise how little I knew back then and how much there still is to learn. If you want to truly learn any art you need to open your mind to the possibility that there is always more to learn and also, a little humility doesnt go amiss on occasion.
Getting back to Ceramic brakes. I know that you have them on your car and that other drivers who have them would like to think that there is a benefit. From personal experience , the advantage on the track is minimal - certainly for the cost. If you are looking at marginal benefit per £ spent there are other less expensive upgrades that will bring much greater performance benefits. I'm not saying that there are absolutely no benefits - but they are marginal.
I stared racing at 12 at national level all be it 1/10th scale :-) but it's like for like, and you learn about geo's, dampers, spring rates, lines and race craft all the same. yes you are always learning, but at a top level setup of a car over takes skill imo. I now sim race. and set up at my level plays a far bigger part than my driving skill levelI started racing a long time ago. 30 years on, I'm still learning and realise how little I knew back then and how much there still is to learn. If you want to truly learn any art you need to open your mind to the possibility that there is always more to learn and also, a little humility doesnt go amiss on occasion.
Getting back to Ceramic brakes. I know that you have them on your car and that other drivers who have them would like to think that there is a benefit. From personal experience , the advantage on the track is minimal - certainly for the cost. If you are looking at marginal benefit per £ spent there are other less expensive upgrades that will bring much greater performance benefits. I'm not saying that there are absolutely no benefits - but they are marginal.
I have some talent in there some where, I don't today have the balls and the reactions of the 30 year olds in real £120k cars on real tracks, but on sim racing I do have some race craft skills and the freedom of crashing at no cost.
I found track days got dull in road bias cars ! and the more expensive the car the less you want to push !! , sim racing is more fun as you ARE racing real people and the fastest guys in the world.
track days I always see a car crash, also all racers crash ! I don't want to risk a £135k car crash , it's that simple.
and while a track set up ruins a road car, on a sim you can do what you like.
I am faster in auto ABS cars , that's a given but it's Still all about corner entry to get that fastest lap.
race craft is interesting as atm I just let faster cars by within 2 corners, why battle a faster driver and loose lap time ! early doors
I will often start 5th ish than after a few laps be 7th or 8th, then most times finish 3rd or even win if cars above battle and go off with each other, very rare to win from 5th but I have done it once.
you see this on TV people will fight a faster car for track position in lap 2 when we all know that car will most likely finish 12th or 13th
many a time Lewis has battled a car on track mid race and then pitted and come out saying "how did Vetal or **** " get in front !!!
well while you were battling a 7th place car vetal was lapping 2 seconds a lap faster for 5 laps !!! and it takes a ENG over the radio to tell the driver"this battle is not the real battle let them past you will over take them in the pits later"
as for racing, most racing in real life again to watch is dull, be it F1, clios, 911 cups, the guy who is fastest in all formats ie the one with the most poles is in the main leading the championship, be it Pro, pro am or rookie !!!
most races there is a line of cars and some times the top 5 cars never change, you start 5th you finish 5th esp in shorter races. !!!
sim racing at a high level is the same, you are 5th you stay 5th as you are the 5th best driver in that race !! and unless people make mistakes that's that, a line of cars from start to finish. You try the do or dive moves only to be re-overtaken, and again they try that on you .
funny old game racing real or sim, and why in the main the fastest car wins and in like for like cars the guy on pole 8 out of 12 races is the guy leading the championship !!! and the guy last on the grid is last in the championship !!!
good battles are few and far between in all formats of racing, and I have been looking up results in all formats and it rings true the pole sitters are the championship leaders.
IS racing a FIX today !!! with DRS and BOP rules is racing fixed !!! you cannot have a GT car winning every race, so BOP rules can make the winner who they want. F1 well the fastest cars wins all season...
A lot of people race as they have money, It don't make people fast ! you either have some driving skills or you don't and you either have the right car under you or you don't. You can hone a skill and you can learn more. but a slow driver will never be a fast driver I find. A slow driver can be a faster driver , but that still puts them in last place on the grid.
as I said the guys who qually last in 911 cup racing are bone last in the championship.
Porsche911R said:
Steve Rance said:
Bingo. You are starting to work your way towards getting your GCSE. Now all you have to do is to work out why the braking point is never a constant - along with your line and then how that might change with engine layout and other dynamic mechanicalvariables, mix that in with weather etc. and then throw all that into a pot and figure out your fastest line and braking point for each lap to get your A level. Then you've got to translate that into practice and your real learning starts.
I started racing a long time ago. 30 years on, I'm still learning and realise how little I knew back then and how much there still is to learn. If you want to truly learn any art you need to open your mind to the possibility that there is always more to learn and also, a little humility doesnt go amiss on occasion.
Getting back to Ceramic brakes. I know that you have them on your car and that other drivers who have them would like to think that there is a benefit. From personal experience , the advantage on the track is minimal - certainly for the cost. If you are looking at marginal benefit per £ spent there are other less expensive upgrades that will bring much greater performance benefits. I'm not saying that there are absolutely no benefits - but they are marginal.
I stared racing at 12 at national level all be it 1/10th scale :-) but it's like for like, and you learn about geo's, dampers, spring rates, lines and race craft all the same. yes you are always learning, but at a top level setup of a car over takes skill imo. I now sim race. and set up at my level plays a far bigger part than my driving skill levelI started racing a long time ago. 30 years on, I'm still learning and realise how little I knew back then and how much there still is to learn. If you want to truly learn any art you need to open your mind to the possibility that there is always more to learn and also, a little humility doesnt go amiss on occasion.
Getting back to Ceramic brakes. I know that you have them on your car and that other drivers who have them would like to think that there is a benefit. From personal experience , the advantage on the track is minimal - certainly for the cost. If you are looking at marginal benefit per £ spent there are other less expensive upgrades that will bring much greater performance benefits. I'm not saying that there are absolutely no benefits - but they are marginal.
I have some talent in there some where, I don't today have the balls and the reactions of the 30 year olds in real £120k cars on real tracks, but on sim racing I do have some race craft skills and the freedom of crashing at no cost.
I found track days got dull in road bias cars ! and the more expensive the car the less you want to push !! , sim racing is more fun as you ARE racing real people and the fastest guys in the world.
track days I always see a car crash, also all racers crash ! I don't want to risk a £135k car crash , it's that simple.
and while a track set up ruins a road car, on a sim you can do what you like.
I am faster in auto ABS cars , that's a given but it's Still all about corner entry to get that fastest lap.
race craft is interesting as atm I just let faster cars by within 2 corners, why battle a faster driver and loose lap time ! early doors
I will often start 5th ish than after a few laps be 7th or 8th, then most times finish 3rd or even win if cars above battle and go off with each other, very rare to win from 5th but I have done it once.
you see this on TV people will fight a faster car for track position in lap 2 when we all know that car will most likely finish 12th or 13th
many a time Lewis has battled a car on track mid race and then pitted and come out saying "how did Vetal or **** " get in front !!!
well while you were battling a 7th place car vetal was lapping 2 seconds a lap faster for 5 laps !!! and it takes a ENG over the radio to tell the driver"this battle is not the real battle let them past you will over take them in the pits later"
as for racing, most racing in real life again to watch is dull, be it F1, clios, 911 cups, the guy who is fastest in all formats ie the one with the most poles is in the main leading the championship, be it Pro, pro am or rookie !!!
most races there is a line of cars and some times the top 5 cars never change, you start 5th you finish 5th esp in shorter races. !!!
sim racing at a high level is the same, you are 5th you stay 5th as you are the 5th best driver in that race !! and unless people make mistakes that's that, a line of cars from start to finish. You try the do or dive moves only to be re-overtaken, and again they try that on you .
funny old game racing real or sim, and why in the main the fastest car wins and in like for like cars the guy on pole 8 out of 12 races is the guy leading the championship !!! and the guy last on the grid is last in the championship !!!
good battles are few and far between in all formats of racing, and I have been looking up results in all formats and it rings true the pole sitters are the championship leaders.
IS racing a FIX today !!! with DRS and BOP rules is racing fixed !!! you cannot have a GT car winning every race, so BOP rules can make the winner who they want. F1 well the fastest cars wins all season...
A lot of people race as they have money, It don't make people fast ! you either have some driving skills or you don't and you either have the right car under you or you don't. You can hone a skill and you can learn more. but a slow driver will never be a fast driver I find. A slow driver can be a faster driver , but that still puts them in last place on the grid.
as I said the guys who qually last in 911 cup racing are bone last in the championship.
I'm on rFactor2 now, good sim, my winter sorted before racing next year.
Yellow491 said:
Listen steve,you need to concede to R,he is always correct and a very experienced top driver.
Look at the quotes,you can just buckle at the knees.
Only one fastest line
Old school slow in fast out
Never triggering abs
Cant trigger at high speeds
Non variable braking points
F1,
Fast in fast out
Go to to a race school
He is clearly back on the tablets
The famous race book of qoutes, the BS stops when the clock starts ticking at spa;)
May be we book a class room at spa,and get taff as teacher up front,us noughty boys sat at the back loaded with the board rubber and other bits to throw,and then R comes in with his satchel,gives taff a apple and sits neatly at the front with pencil sharpened,oh and still with his shorts on.
what's incorrect which I have posted ?Look at the quotes,you can just buckle at the knees.
Only one fastest line
Old school slow in fast out
Never triggering abs
Cant trigger at high speeds
Non variable braking points
F1,
Fast in fast out
Go to to a race school
He is clearly back on the tablets
The famous race book of qoutes, the BS stops when the clock starts ticking at spa;)
May be we book a class room at spa,and get taff as teacher up front,us noughty boys sat at the back loaded with the board rubber and other bits to throw
,and then R comes in with his satchel,gives taff a apple and sits neatly at the front with pencil sharpened,oh and still with his shorts on.I will goto Spa in 2020 with a PH group no issue for fun, and I won't be the fastest as I don't push my £135k car on track and I don't have the balls to drive Blancimont at >160mph or the balls to do Eau-rouge at speed, and the track knowlege to do Pouhon right, and I have a metal block at 14 due to a wall being right in front of you so slow down way too much.
it's that simple, I know where I am slow at Spa, fixing that will be VERY hard and need more than 1 visit, bigger balls and some one else PDK RS to drive and allow me to right off. I will offer to drive Taffys RS WP car and give him a lift home in mine ;-)
I have no issue being the slowest on a PH meet up, I just want to goto Spa in my manual GT3 for fun with people who enjoy cars and if we can all learn something on the way that's great.
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