Days back at the dealership
Discussion
The original water ingress fault (not the first issue with the car, other roof mechanism issues only one month into ownership prior to water issues) I was informed (by the OPC's after sales manager and the OPC's group after sales manager) was a faulty drain hose. The hose fault was described to me as having "occurred at point of manufacture" i..e In the factory. I bought the car in April 2018, as you may recall we had a very hot and dry year in 2018. So as we got into 2019 and the rain started to accumulate so to did the incidence of condensation inside the car especially after a run in the car that brought it up to temperature. I also started to get weird error messages in regard the roof operation. The OPC could not find the cause of them. Then in March this year after a long run in the car and having parked it overnight I came out to find what I can only describe as water inundation on the INSIDE of the glass, particularly on the LHS of the car. There was so much water I thought for a moment I had left the roof open, but it was closed. It had soaked all the parking permits, Euro auto route permits etc off the car they were all lying on the dashboard.
I got a towel, dried it up and drove home. It was a Sunday, I looked online and found a tip to check the carpets for water. They were soaked, absolutely soaked under the mats front and rear on the LHS. Oozing water, I hadn't noticed as it was under the weatherproof mats. Nor had it occurred to me to be on guard for such in such a modern and new car. Car went to the dealer the next day, with my concerns made about the electrics being wet etc. They called after a day or so and said its seriously wet, so much water we’ll need 3 weeks to dry it out, find the source, repair it and re test it. (The wiring loom and ECU are under the LHS seat and were sat in water for months whilst the water built up on the floor panels, soaked up through the deadening and then the foam and then through the actual carpets. From there we've been on this long and painful path of fix, re fix, no fault, oh yes there is a fault, fixed, oh not quite, we caused a new fault etc etc to now its categorically not faulty anymore according to OPC. The sudden supreme confidence by the OPC is odd when you hold it up against the pattern of events to this point. “Water such a difficult thing to diagnose, etc etc “ to now “Its fixed.” Meanwhile fluttering wipers, PCM that goes on and off at will and moisture readings that are high to very high on only the LHS carpets front and rear still.
I got a towel, dried it up and drove home. It was a Sunday, I looked online and found a tip to check the carpets for water. They were soaked, absolutely soaked under the mats front and rear on the LHS. Oozing water, I hadn't noticed as it was under the weatherproof mats. Nor had it occurred to me to be on guard for such in such a modern and new car. Car went to the dealer the next day, with my concerns made about the electrics being wet etc. They called after a day or so and said its seriously wet, so much water we’ll need 3 weeks to dry it out, find the source, repair it and re test it. (The wiring loom and ECU are under the LHS seat and were sat in water for months whilst the water built up on the floor panels, soaked up through the deadening and then the foam and then through the actual carpets. From there we've been on this long and painful path of fix, re fix, no fault, oh yes there is a fault, fixed, oh not quite, we caused a new fault etc etc to now its categorically not faulty anymore according to OPC. The sudden supreme confidence by the OPC is odd when you hold it up against the pattern of events to this point. “Water such a difficult thing to diagnose, etc etc “ to now “Its fixed.” Meanwhile fluttering wipers, PCM that goes on and off at will and moisture readings that are high to very high on only the LHS carpets front and rear still.
Edited by Jakob911 on Friday 6th December 16:14
Jakob911 said:
The original water ingress fault (not the first issue with the car, other roof mechanism issues only one month into ownership prior to water issues) I was informed (by the OPC's after sales manager and the OPC's group after sales manager) was a faulty drain hose. The hose fault was described to me as having "occurred at point of manufacture" i..e In the factory. I bought the car in April 2018, as you may recall we had a very hot and dry year in 2018. So as we got into 2019 and the rain started to accumulate so to did the incidence of condensation inside the car especially after a run in the car that brought it up to temperature. I also started to get weird error messages in regard the roof operation. The OPC could not find the cause of them. Then in March this year after a long run in the car and having parked it overnight I came out to find what I can only describe as water inundation on the INSIDE of the glass, particularly on the LHS of the car. There was so much water I thought for a moment I had left the roof open, but it was closed. It had soaked all the parking permits, Euro auto route permits etc off the car they were all lying on the dashboard.
I got a towel, dried it up and drove home. It was a Sunday, I looked online and found a tip to check the carpets for water. They were soaked, absolutely soaked under the mats front and rear on the LHS. Oozing water, I hadn't noticed as it was under the weatherproof mats. Nor had it occurred to me to be on guard for such in such a modern and new car. Car went to the dealer the next day, with my concerns made about the electrics being wet etc. They called after a day or so and said its seriously wet, so much water we’ll need 3 weeks to dry it out, find the source, repair it and re test it. (The wiring loom and ECU are under the LHS seat and were sat in water for months whilst the water built up on the floor panels, soaked up through the deadening and then the foam and then through the actual carpets. From there we've been on this long and painful path of fix, re fix, no fault, oh yes there is a fault, fixed, oh not quite, we caused a new fault etc etc to now its categorically not faulty anymore according to OPC. The sudden supreme confidence by the OPC is odd when you hold it up against the pattern of events to this point. “Water such a difficult thing to diagnose, etc etc “ to now “Its fixed.” Meanwhile fluttering wipers, PCM that goes on and off at will and moisture readings that are high to very high on only the LHS carpets front and rear still.
Time for your own specialist engineers report, time to get a solicitor involved. I got a towel, dried it up and drove home. It was a Sunday, I looked online and found a tip to check the carpets for water. They were soaked, absolutely soaked under the mats front and rear on the LHS. Oozing water, I hadn't noticed as it was under the weatherproof mats. Nor had it occurred to me to be on guard for such in such a modern and new car. Car went to the dealer the next day, with my concerns made about the electrics being wet etc. They called after a day or so and said its seriously wet, so much water we’ll need 3 weeks to dry it out, find the source, repair it and re test it. (The wiring loom and ECU are under the LHS seat and were sat in water for months whilst the water built up on the floor panels, soaked up through the deadening and then the foam and then through the actual carpets. From there we've been on this long and painful path of fix, re fix, no fault, oh yes there is a fault, fixed, oh not quite, we caused a new fault etc etc to now its categorically not faulty anymore according to OPC. The sudden supreme confidence by the OPC is odd when you hold it up against the pattern of events to this point. “Water such a difficult thing to diagnose, etc etc “ to now “Its fixed.” Meanwhile fluttering wipers, PCM that goes on and off at will and moisture readings that are high to very high on only the LHS carpets front and rear still.
Edited by Jakob911 on Friday 6th December 16:14
Jakob911 said:
In all I had a loan car for 10 days of that time. Those 10 days include the 4 days involved in going to the OPC to collect the loan car and return it both times. Porsche GB have listened to me but have been clear that my contract is with the OPC and not with them. The issues have been the same this whole time, water getting inside the car.
The car is warranted by Porsche AG not your local OPC.....your point of contact might be your OPC and that might be who you purchased it from but it’s the manufacturers warranty, The OPC is an appointed agent so if they’re not performing properly then it’s Porsche GB’s issue in my book.Have Porsche GB sent an engineer to inspect the car ? That is what normally happens in cases like this. As for not having a loan car that is f
king ridiculous.Since my last post my issue with the car has developed, not progressed. I ended up speaking to the dealer principal at the OPC and in parallel I also had a line of communication to Porsche GB customer services. The DP at the OPC laughed openly at me when I suggested the car go to PGB to have their techs verify what the opc was saying i.e. the car was fixed and not leaking any more. My view was if they said it was sorted and the loom and ECU had not suffered any lasting damage by being exposed to so much water over such a long time then id be content with them having viewed it.
I'd still have the issue of what to do with a car i had no faith in. My request was for the OPC and PGB to pool the profit they'd made selling me my car, buy it back at a price that made up for the grief, hassle, time and cost of the entire process. The DP said I had to "get over it" "the profit was booked and done and not applicable to this issue". He said we "had to agree to disagree on the car being fixed". As a gesture he was prepared to buy the car back at trade in value, to "solve" the situation.
When i mentioned that i was stuck with the car given i could not sell it privately or to another dealer, (given what i knew of the repair history and current high moisture readings in the carpet. If I was ill prepared to keep it how could i bestow that onto a new unwitting owner.) He then accused me of trying to sell the car "away" as he had been offered it!! I was speechless, simply speechless. I composed myself and explained that his accusation was wrong in fact and not helping my growing annoyance and dissatisfaction with his approach. It seemed as though he was focusing on trying to avoid the issue by creating more conflict. When pressed on what he meant in detail, he retreated saying it may have been a car similar to mine. He said he'd have no issue selling that car as it was now fixed.
When i raised the fact PGB were prepared to support the opc in taking the car back, he was not overly happy. He made it clear he was not offering any compensatory payment at all, the car was not a candidate for a rejection or buy back. He then said he would simply take PGB's 'support' and add it to the trade value of my car in order to solve the situation. I was given 2 days to take the offer or not. No detail as to what may lie ahead if I did not.
Faced with this seemingly vicious circle of annoyance I agreed reluctantly to liquidate the car back, given I had no other acceptable options, they came collected it, paid me my money and also chose to send back my 2 deposits that they had held for 18-20 months for a 992 Turbo S and a new Macan GTS. I've heard nothing from them since day of collection. The sales guys are decent blokes but decisions like this and how they eventually handle a lemon car/repeat repair/rejection car type situation run up to the DP, who told me "Im in the business of buying and selling cars" whilst avoiding all questions in regard satisfactory levels of customer satisfaction etc.
I still and will always love Porsche cars, Ill buy more soon but Im disappointed despite being so patient on my cars issues I've been cut adrift to save money first and foremost. The car is currently for sale at the OPC having passed a used car 111 point warranty check for more money than i was paid for it. I guess the DP is in the business of buying and sellign cars.
I'd still have the issue of what to do with a car i had no faith in. My request was for the OPC and PGB to pool the profit they'd made selling me my car, buy it back at a price that made up for the grief, hassle, time and cost of the entire process. The DP said I had to "get over it" "the profit was booked and done and not applicable to this issue". He said we "had to agree to disagree on the car being fixed". As a gesture he was prepared to buy the car back at trade in value, to "solve" the situation.
When i mentioned that i was stuck with the car given i could not sell it privately or to another dealer, (given what i knew of the repair history and current high moisture readings in the carpet. If I was ill prepared to keep it how could i bestow that onto a new unwitting owner.) He then accused me of trying to sell the car "away" as he had been offered it!! I was speechless, simply speechless. I composed myself and explained that his accusation was wrong in fact and not helping my growing annoyance and dissatisfaction with his approach. It seemed as though he was focusing on trying to avoid the issue by creating more conflict. When pressed on what he meant in detail, he retreated saying it may have been a car similar to mine. He said he'd have no issue selling that car as it was now fixed.
When i raised the fact PGB were prepared to support the opc in taking the car back, he was not overly happy. He made it clear he was not offering any compensatory payment at all, the car was not a candidate for a rejection or buy back. He then said he would simply take PGB's 'support' and add it to the trade value of my car in order to solve the situation. I was given 2 days to take the offer or not. No detail as to what may lie ahead if I did not.
Faced with this seemingly vicious circle of annoyance I agreed reluctantly to liquidate the car back, given I had no other acceptable options, they came collected it, paid me my money and also chose to send back my 2 deposits that they had held for 18-20 months for a 992 Turbo S and a new Macan GTS. I've heard nothing from them since day of collection. The sales guys are decent blokes but decisions like this and how they eventually handle a lemon car/repeat repair/rejection car type situation run up to the DP, who told me "Im in the business of buying and selling cars" whilst avoiding all questions in regard satisfactory levels of customer satisfaction etc.
I still and will always love Porsche cars, Ill buy more soon but Im disappointed despite being so patient on my cars issues I've been cut adrift to save money first and foremost. The car is currently for sale at the OPC having passed a used car 111 point warranty check for more money than i was paid for it. I guess the DP is in the business of buying and sellign cars.
- have been looking at cars all afternoon I hear you. What is annoying is that luxury car dealers seem to get a huge amount of leeway in terms of providing bad customer service given the cost of the product relative to other markets or products. I think the UK needs proper car lemon laws as the current applicable legislation is ill suited to a luxury car or any car for that matter. It works for buying a hoover or camera but not really a 100k or 200k car. The US lemon laws were brought in for a reason. The dealers there know that those laws provide a bar that they have to adhere to or face the consequences, rather than in the UK where a dealer knows that if they aggravate a client and he/she does one it won't materially affect their business.
Jakob911 said:
Since my last post my issue with the car has developed, not progressed. I ended up speaking to the dealer principal at the OPC and in parallel I also had a line of communication to Porsche GB customer services. The DP at the OPC laughed openly at me when I suggested the car go to PGB to have their techs verify what the opc was saying i.e. the car was fixed and not leaking any more. My view was if they said it was sorted and the loom and ECU had not suffered any lasting damage by being exposed to so much water over such a long time then id be content with them having viewed it.
I'd still have the issue of what to do with a car i had no faith in. My request was for the OPC and PGB to pool the profit they'd made selling me my car, buy it back at a price that made up for the grief, hassle, time and cost of the entire process. The DP said I had to "get over it" "the profit was booked and done and not applicable to this issue". He said we "had to agree to disagree on the car being fixed". As a gesture he was prepared to buy the car back at trade in value, to "solve" the situation.
When i mentioned that i was stuck with the car given i could not sell it privately or to another dealer, (given what i knew of the repair history and current high moisture readings in the carpet. If I was ill prepared to keep it how could i bestow that onto a new unwitting owner.) He then accused me of trying to sell the car "away" as he had been offered it!! I was speechless, simply speechless. I composed myself and explained that his accusation was wrong in fact and not helping my growing annoyance and dissatisfaction with his approach. It seemed as though he was focusing on trying to avoid the issue by creating more conflict. When pressed on what he meant in detail, he retreated saying it may have been a car similar to mine. He said he'd have no issue selling that car as it was now fixed.
When i raised the fact PGB were prepared to support the opc in taking the car back, he was not overly happy. He made it clear he was not offering any compensatory payment at all, the car was not a candidate for a rejection or buy back. He then said he would simply take PGB's 'support' and add it to the trade value of my car in order to solve the situation. I was given 2 days to take the offer or not. No detail as to what may lie ahead if I did not.
Faced with this seemingly vicious circle of annoyance I agreed reluctantly to liquidate the car back, given I had no other acceptable options, they came collected it, paid me my money and also chose to send back my 2 deposits that they had held for 18-20 months for a 992 Turbo S and a new Macan GTS. I've heard nothing from them since day of collection. The sales guys are decent blokes but decisions like this and how they eventually handle a lemon car/repeat repair/rejection car type situation run up to the DP, who told me "Im in the business of buying and selling cars" whilst avoiding all questions in regard satisfactory levels of customer satisfaction etc.
I still and will always love Porsche cars, Ill buy more soon but Im disappointed despite being so patient on my cars issues I've been cut adrift to save money first and foremost. The car is currently for sale at the OPC having passed a used car 111 point warranty check for more money than i was paid for it. I guess the DP is in the business of buying and sellign cars.
Could you PM me the OPC please? Possibly be deleted if you post it up on here! I'd still have the issue of what to do with a car i had no faith in. My request was for the OPC and PGB to pool the profit they'd made selling me my car, buy it back at a price that made up for the grief, hassle, time and cost of the entire process. The DP said I had to "get over it" "the profit was booked and done and not applicable to this issue". He said we "had to agree to disagree on the car being fixed". As a gesture he was prepared to buy the car back at trade in value, to "solve" the situation.
When i mentioned that i was stuck with the car given i could not sell it privately or to another dealer, (given what i knew of the repair history and current high moisture readings in the carpet. If I was ill prepared to keep it how could i bestow that onto a new unwitting owner.) He then accused me of trying to sell the car "away" as he had been offered it!! I was speechless, simply speechless. I composed myself and explained that his accusation was wrong in fact and not helping my growing annoyance and dissatisfaction with his approach. It seemed as though he was focusing on trying to avoid the issue by creating more conflict. When pressed on what he meant in detail, he retreated saying it may have been a car similar to mine. He said he'd have no issue selling that car as it was now fixed.
When i raised the fact PGB were prepared to support the opc in taking the car back, he was not overly happy. He made it clear he was not offering any compensatory payment at all, the car was not a candidate for a rejection or buy back. He then said he would simply take PGB's 'support' and add it to the trade value of my car in order to solve the situation. I was given 2 days to take the offer or not. No detail as to what may lie ahead if I did not.
Faced with this seemingly vicious circle of annoyance I agreed reluctantly to liquidate the car back, given I had no other acceptable options, they came collected it, paid me my money and also chose to send back my 2 deposits that they had held for 18-20 months for a 992 Turbo S and a new Macan GTS. I've heard nothing from them since day of collection. The sales guys are decent blokes but decisions like this and how they eventually handle a lemon car/repeat repair/rejection car type situation run up to the DP, who told me "Im in the business of buying and selling cars" whilst avoiding all questions in regard satisfactory levels of customer satisfaction etc.
I still and will always love Porsche cars, Ill buy more soon but Im disappointed despite being so patient on my cars issues I've been cut adrift to save money first and foremost. The car is currently for sale at the OPC having passed a used car 111 point warranty check for more money than i was paid for it. I guess the DP is in the business of buying and sellign cars.
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