Speedster

[Steve Rance]

Yellow491 said:

R this was my car at 158mph.no spoilers,just a small splitter,look at the back window and front arches over the wheels,the steering would go light but it was fine.You can learn a lot from photos and film on what your car is really doing,intially it felt like the car had lifted at the front by 300mm!


Most modern cars now have very poor feedback/feel,may be you just need to grow a pair and keep it nailed and or get a good set up/tyres.

Agree on rear wheel steer,feels like you have a squidgy/low pressure rear tyre,wonder what motorsport engineer came up with it,its fine as a road car though.

OMG that is a beautiful car..

[Yellow491]

Porsche911R said:

Yellow491 said:

R this was my car at 158mph.no spoilers,just a small splitter,look at the back window and front arches over the wheels,the steering would go light but it was fine.You can learn a lot from photos and film on what your car is really doing,intially it felt like the car had lifted at the front by 300mm!


Most modern cars now have very poor feedback/feel,may be you just need to grow a pair and keep it nailed and or get a good set up/tyres.

Agree on rear wheel steer,feels like you have a squidgy/low pressure rear tyre,wonder what motorsport engineer came up with it,its fine as a road car though.

the older cars you can drive on a loose style though and you know 100% what each end is doing on skinny tyres.

modern cars just don't tell you what's going on to that level and have MASSIVE 325 section CUP tyres so when they let go it's in a big way and in a mid engine car it's a bigger way.

one can drive a very basic £10k e30 318 IS as an example and drift like a king, skinny tyres, no grip, full feel etc. A modern car don't work or drive like that.

hence people say buy an MX5 for £6k you will have more fun !

all I notice is new cars are VERY fast and as people have said you notice the GT3 neg lift makes the car very stable.

it's fun watching classic racing as every single car is on OPP lock every bend … modern cars just don't drive like that.

Early 911 racers as in st /rsr as this was is best driven not loose,unlike a 65.
A good set up will give you good feedback if with out all the trick psm etc,you can get them there if you choose to,but its always a compromise of a road car.
Sort out reaction time and pre empt whats going to happen,most people think about it when its happened,which is always to late,get your self on a proper driving course with tuthills and sweden,none of this unrealist kick plate nonsense.
Check and maintain your reaction time with excercise

[Yellow491]

Steve Rance said:

Yellow491 said:

R this was my car at 158mph.no spoilers,just a small splitter,look at the back window and front arches over the wheels,the steering would go light but it was fine.You can learn a lot from photos and film on what your car is really doing,intially it felt like the car had lifted at the front by 300mm!


Most modern cars now have very poor feedback/feel,may be you just need to grow a pair and keep it nailed and or get a good set up/tyres.

Agree on rear wheel steer,feels like you have a squidgy/low pressure rear tyre,wonder what motorsport engineer came up with it,its fine as a road car though.

OMG that is a beautiful car..

Steve having owned and raced a original st,this st was not mine,but i guest drove it with Josh Sadler from autofarm at Daytona 24hr classic,only to be informed by josh after the race weekend the new owner was watching the car being raced by us,and was more than happy!He had sold it several weeks before for more than a current cgt,with out telling me ,we had a gentleman's agreement uninsured ,you bend it you mend it

[Steve Rance]

Old school car. . Old school racing agreements - where a chap's handshake means something.

It doesnt get any better

[Porsche911R]

Yellow491 said:

Early 911 racers as in st /rsr as this was is best driven not loose,unlike a 65.
A good set up will give you good feedback if with out all the trick psm etc,you can get them there if you choose to,but its always a compromise of a road car.
Sort out reaction time and pre empt whats going to happen,most people think about it when its happened,which is always to late,get your self on a proper driving course with tuthills and sweden,none of this unrealist kick plate nonsense.
Check and maintain your reaction time with excercise

that's all a given really, my reactions are very fast for a 50 year old and I don't have to think to drive or correct, it's too late if you have to do that.

[Dammit]

Porsche911R said:

that's all a given really, my reactions are very fast for a 50 year old and I don't have to think to drive or correct, it's too late if you have to do that.

[Porsche911R]

Dammit said:

I am a bit of a dick and the biggest Troll on PH today.

There I fixed that for you how easy was that....f**ing idiot.

[RSVP911]

Steve Rance said:

Yellow491 said:

R this was my car at 158mph.no spoilers,just a small splitter,look at the back window and front arches over the wheels,the steering would go light but it was fine.You can learn a lot from photos and film on what your car is really doing,intially it felt like the car had lifted at the front by 300mm!


Most modern cars now have very poor feedback/feel,may be you just need to grow a pair and keep it nailed and or get a good set up/tyres.

Agree on rear wheel steer,feels like you have a squidgy/low pressure rear tyre,wonder what motorsport engineer came up with it,its fine as a road car though.

OMG that is a beautiful car..

+ 1 !!!!!!!!

[MDL111]

isaldiri said:

MDL111 said:

you are probably correct about that, but at say 150mph in a corner my Scuderia feels a lot more stable than my dad's BMW (or for that matter my FF), so less weight and a little downforce (or less lift) probably has a positive effect overall. my GT2 on the other hand felt scary as soon as there were gusts from the side (I suspect that was the wing as the Audis around me seemed to have no such issues...)

Edit: on the GT2 I meant even on a straight road

Iirc, sportauto supertest had the 997 gt2 producing more downforce front and rear than the scuderia. In fact the scud I think produced hardly anything (small amount at the rear only).

Cheib said:

I’ve been round the Milbrook bowl in mine...you can absolutely feel the effect of the aero as speeds increase. Can’t remember the speed but somewhere between 100 mph and 120 mph you can really feel the car sit down.

But is it really aero you are feeling or more an issue of general vehicle tuning to feel more stable at speed? I find some cars a bit of a pain on poor surfaces at low speeds but once moving at a decent click it's much less of an issue for example.

Proper downforce ime (in say radical not piddly amounts in a road car) is a bit of a blind faith test - you chuck the car into a corner faster than you think is sensible and rely on the extra grip to get you through and personally don't/can't feel the aero. The numbers involved for a gt3 to me anyway simply don't suggest a big difference.

I know the GT2 produced more downforce - was an example for a car that felt scary even with downforce in the wrong conditions

[Dammit]

Porsche911R said:

There I fixed that for you how easy was that....f**ing idiot.

Calm down snowflake, you're not helping yourself by bragging about how awesome you are whilst at the same time revealing that you can't tell what a car is doing when you're theoretically in charge of it.

[Yellow491]

Porsche911R said:

Yellow491 said:

Early 911 racers as in st /rsr as this was is best driven not loose,unlike a 65.
A good set up will give you good feedback if with out all the trick psm etc,you can get them there if you choose to,but its always a compromise of a road car.
Sort out reaction time and pre empt whats going to happen,most people think about it when its happened,which is always to late,get your self on a proper driving course with tuthills and sweden,none of this unrealist kick plate nonsense.
Check and maintain your reaction time with excercise

that's all a given really, my reactions are very fast for a 50 year old and I don't have to think to drive or correct, it's too late if you have to do that.

R you are doing yourself no favours , you will end up on the black list like the good oh reindeer who called a professor a fool or was it stupid on ph!

[Cheib]

Yellow491 said:

Early 911 racers as in st /rsr as this was is best driven not loose,unlike a 65.
A good set up will give you good feedback if with out all the trick psm etc,you can get them there if you choose to,but its always a compromise of a road car.
Sort out reaction time and pre empt whats going to happen,most people think about it when its happened,which is always to late,get your self on a proper driving course with tuthills and sweden,none of this unrealist kick plate nonsense.
Check and maintain your reaction time with excercise

Have you done the Tuthill’s Ice Driving Course ? Seriously tempted for next winter.

[seawise]

Cheib said:

Yellow491 said:

Early 911 racers as in st /rsr as this was is best driven not loose,unlike a 65.
A good set up will give you good feedback if with out all the trick psm etc,you can get them there if you choose to,but its always a compromise of a road car.
Sort out reaction time and pre empt whats going to happen,most people think about it when its happened,which is always to late,get your self on a proper driving course with tuthills and sweden,none of this unrealist kick plate nonsense.
Check and maintain your reaction time with excercise

Have you done the Tuthill’s Ice Driving Course ? Seriously tempted for next winter.

I’ve done it - highly recommended, well organised, great guys, wicked cars (all early 911 ex rally cars), stunning place, very informative and really sharpened up my instinctive car control. Seems expensive but is actually exceptionally good value - went with three pals and we had such a laugh over the two days.

[Cheib]

Not sure I have three mates that would want to do it to be honest! How much car time do you get per day ?

[PSB1]

Porsche911R said:

Desert Dragon said:

I have to say that's quite odd vehicle dynamics you're describing. It sounds like your Cup 2 had no heat in them whatsoever but still the PSM should catch you? The lift you're describing in Golf GTI, Cayman R if set up correctly simply not an issue. The latest Golf GTI CS being first to have no lift ad nauseam is just marketing hype R. Means very little. Until you get to single seaters etc and lw promise the aero not so important. Look at Steve in GT3 with lap times hardly any different after losing rear spoiler and thats in race conditions. My 997 turbo probably has lift at 180 mph. Yes the front end lighter but the car is planted and I trust it 100 percent even in the wet

PSM in 987 don't work on track sadly, it's utter garbage and will make you spin, I only drive on track in my cars with every thing in OFF mode but in the 987 it can come back on on it's own and cause you to spin !!! this was not the issue on this bend mind you. it was prob driver error but I have only spun this car once and it caught me out. PSM comes back on with tighter bends and too much lock and then it's not funny when it tried to brake a rear wheel !!!

In the wet in the Spyder it's max 60 mph on a motoway :-)

Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 3rd February 11:02

Have you considered any driver training courses? Could help you with this problem?

[seawise]

Cheib said:

Not sure I have three mates that would want to do it to be honest! How much car time do you get per day ?

Pretty much all morning and afternoon - loads of seat time, you are pretty exhausted by the end of the day when you drive the cars back to their workshop. Stayed in the nearest town, really nice hotel, at the bottom of a ski lift/run so you can ski as well whilst you’re there etc.

[Yellow491]

seawise said:

Cheib said:

Yellow491 said:

Early 911 racers as in st /rsr as this was is best driven not loose,unlike a 65.
A good set up will give you good feedback if with out all the trick psm etc,you can get them there if you choose to,but its always a compromise of a road car.
Sort out reaction time and pre empt whats going to happen,most people think about it when its happened,which is always to late,get your self on a proper driving course with tuthills and sweden,none of this unrealist kick plate nonsense.
Check and maintain your reaction time with excercise

Have you done the Tuthill’s Ice Driving Course ? Seriously tempted for next winter.

I’ve done it - highly recommended, well organised, great guys, wicked cars (all early 911 ex rally cars), stunning place, very informative and really sharpened up my instinctive car control. Seems expensive but is actually exceptionally good value - went with three pals and we had such a laugh over the two days.

Yes done with richard tutts,great fun,education,drove the tyres off the car,actually ended up with tyno in my forearms,as had two cars between 3 of us,and luckily for me my two mates are giants and could not fit in my car
I would go again,cars are there to be used properly,and if you dont bury it in a snow drift,yer just not trying.

[Cheib]

Sounds great ! Right up my stresse.

Although at £3.5k per day it is certainly not cheap and obviously need to do a couple of days

Edited by Cheib on Tuesday 4th February 17:58

[mhh]

Picked mine up in Adelaide yesterday. It feels soft and quiet after my Sharkwerks equipped 911R but I’m babying the engine as you’d expect. I’ll take them both out when the new car is run in and compare.

[Yellow491]

Cheib said:

Sounds great ! Right up my stresse.

Although at £3.5k per day it is certainly not cheap and obviously need to do a couple of days

Edited by Cheib on Tuesday 4th February 17:58

If you are doing a couple of days,do a day,ski or board the next and then do the 2nd day on day 3,otherwise your arms will not take it