996 GT3 what’s your thoughts ?

[Porsche911R]

Cheburator mk2 said:

I have a 35k Mk1 996.1 CS K400, which has been thoroghly re-worked by Manthey - it has the cup gears, cup synchros, cup final drive, cup diff plates, cup coffin arms, cup trust arms, cup ABS, cup shifter, cup cables and Mk2 brakes. It is trully wonderful on track. A bit less so on the road, unless I am out for a blat. It is the closest you would get to a road going race car from all the modern Porsches. Yet it has a working aircon and allegedly a radio, As for power - a Manthey-ed K400 with the shorter final drive would make mince meat of a 996 Mk2 and a 997.1 if drag racing is your thing...

a real CS ? ie one of the 27 UK cars ?

[Slippydiff]

Porsche911R said:

a real CS ? ie one of the 27 UK cars ?

There were 28 official UK Clubsports. The car is a LHD example who's first owner was some bloke called Olaf, can't remember his surname, but he's supposed to well known in Porsche tuning/racing circles.

[Slippydiff]

Fanboy911 said:

Cheers i have actually just join requested

Many tks for the replies.

I can see Dans car mentioned on there.

So the K400 conversion seems very popular i've noticed

Was the Mk1 Club sport official factory designation ?

Yes, Clubsport was an official factory designation. It provided a bolt in roll cage, a lightweight, single piece flywheel, a fire extinguisher, "Nomex" seat covers, harnesses, a battery cutout, centre console delete, and in the rare Mk1 Clubsport, door airbag deletion.

[Fanboy911]

Slippydiff said:

Yes, Clubsport was an official factory designation. It provided a bolt in roll cage, a lightweight, single piece flywheel, a fire extinguisher, "Nomex" seat covers, harnesses, a battery cutout, centre console delete, and in the rare Mk1 Clubsport, door airbag deletion.

Tks.

Any clue on pricing for a UK CS car with say 50k miles? Cheers

[Slippydiff]

cayman-black said:

It does sound nice this one. I would always favour the RS though.

They're somewhat different price points. The Mk1 CS and RS will be THE ones to have at some point.
A Mk1 CS with a Manthey K400 conversion is all the 996 you need for the road, I probably wouldn't even mess with the suspension, other than to ensure all the OE stuff is in rude health.

The CS cage stiffens the shell nicely (and adds a certain sense of occasion to the interior) and the K400 conversion brings parity powerwise to the drivetrain, it also imbues the Mk1 engine with way more character, both from a power delivery and noise perspective.

As a footnote, you don't actually need to fit the Manthey K400 conversion, as sourcing the correct complete exhaust system (I'd suggest the M & M item which Manthey use) and getting the engine remapped by the likes of Wayne Schofield, these two mods alone will produce the same hp gains as the K400 conversion, but at vastly reduced cost.

As Dan's car already has the K400 conversion, it's a no brainer.

[Slippydiff]

Fanboy911 said:

Tks.

Any clue on pricing for a UK CS car with say 50k miles? Cheers

The market is soft currently, but it will firm up a bit (and I stress, a bit) over the next 2-3 months.
I'd say it's a buyers market, but a Mk1 Clubsport in Speed Yellow is an all too rare car, that is has the well known and well regarded Manthey K400 conversion is a bonus (from my perspective).

[D.no]

Porsche911R said:

.... a 997.1 with PASM on is a bobbing mess imo even on smooth tarmac !!! imo unusable !

Not sure how many you've driven (if more than a sample of 1, fair enough) but that's not my experience at all. Maybe I've just got used to (and enjoy) bobbing messes though

Wouldn't want mine any other way.

[Slippydiff]

Porsche911R said:

£50k does every thing possible you could wish for.
Short final drive
New diff
clutch
set of 3 way shocks *
lightweight battery *
lightweight seats *
full Inconel exhaust system *
refresh every bush, drop links, top mounts etc
monoball the rear end.
AP disks and endless pads all round. *
lightweight wheels *
cup steering wheel *

Very easy to spend it. But the cars are old and don't drive like new what ever people say.

All items marked with an asterisk fall under the category of "Gilding the Lily", they'd no doubt make for a much improved track car, but for road use they're complete overkill (and I say that as the owner of a car that has most of them fitted ...)

If the gearing grates (no pun intended), by all means fit a Cup CWP, but for the vast majority of road use owners, the gearing issue really is an internet myth and doesn't detract from the ownership/driving experience for the majority, unless of course you really do like driving around bouncing off the rev limiter all the time, which some do. No harm in that, but I suggest an S2000 would be the better choice.

As Dr No puts it so perfectly, the engine in these cars is only part of the equation, it's not the sole raison d'etre, for sure it's a huge part of the car's appeal, but there's so much more to be enjoyed about them. To become focused solely, almost to the point of obsession on the gearing, rather misses the point of what are extraordinary cars.

[Slippydiff]

D.no said:

Porsche911R said:

.... a 997.1 with PASM on is a bobbing mess imo even on smooth tarmac !!! imo unusable !

Not sure how many you've driven (if more than a sample of 1, fair enough) but that's not my experience at all. Maybe I've just got used to (and enjoy) bobbing messes though

Wouldn't want mine any other way.

Neither of mine were "bobbing messes" either, on the contrary, I found them a bit too planted, which in turn meant I found myself doing "silly" speeds on our A and B roads.







Neither were gargae queens ...

[Cheburator mk2]

Porsche911R said:

a real CS ? ie one of the 27 UK cars ?

I dunno - it has a working red cord to cut off the electrics under the bonnet, as well as no air bags in the doors, a full factory fitted Heigo cage, no centre console with another electrical cut off switch instead... it sounds like a bag o'nails at idle because it has a single mass flywheel and the Recaro buckets are covered in Nomex. It also sports M003 on the under bonnet sticker as well as Olaf Manthey as the first owner on the Fahrezeugbrief...

He used the car for regularity rallying as well as to drive it around the one-way-toll-road-somewhere-in-the-Eifel...

P.S. It's a LHD car, making it worth about 2p

[Heathrow]

Love mine (Gen 2 with surface transforms and cup diff).

Not for everyone so try before you buy. The stock set-up is very firm and there is no electronic safety net (ABS aside) which means you have to be fully focused, particularly in the wet and with track-biased tyres.

The way the engine revs out to the redline and the resultant sound is the standout highlight for me.

Never heard complaints about the gearing before - that's a new one - total non-issue IMHO.

Tyres make a big difference to the feel too - e.g. Cup2s are great for track but rob the car of that much needed compliance for road driving.

These cars are getting on for 20 years old and are expensive to run (if maintained appropriately). Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. Something to bear in mind.

Lots of aftermarket options if you want to tailor/tweak the car to your needs.

[browngt3]

I loved my 996.2GT3 - kept it for 13 years afterall. Not once did I think the gearing was an issue. Only when I started to read this forum did I discover that! It was always an event to drive, jump in straight after driving a modern, fastish normal car and it felt absolutely alive. Fantastic, feelsome steering, nice weighty clutch. Preferred the clutch action to my 991.2GT3 which is too light for my taste. The gearbox needed warming up but again unmatched 3rd to 4th and 5th to 6th balls out on the right road.

Yes, the suspension was too hard for everyday driving but it's not designed to be a daily driver. And again, I agree it would bob around and was easily deflected on a crap road but the fight was part of the fun. You want an easy drive, buy a Golf. I loved the tight fitting buckets too and no silly computer screens on the dash.

Lovely car and some great memories but having said all of that, oddly, I still prefer my 991.2!

[D.no]

Slippydiff said:

Neither of mine were "bobbing messes" either, on the contrary, I found them a bit too planted, which in turn meant I found myself doing "silly" speeds on our A and B roads.







Neither were gargae queens ...

I enjoyed that game of spot-the-difference. Thanks.

[Porsche911R]

Slippydiff said:

Neither of mine were "bobbing messes" either, on the contrary, I found them a bit too planted, which in turn meant I found myself doing "silly" speeds on our A and B roads.

I bet you did not have PASM on , !!! on those roads.

you know I am right FFS it's annoying ;-)

don't make me post all the time you said the same back in 2011 !!! there are loads of posts

even Harris , mr fan boy fitted shocks to his 997.1 GT3, and you have shocks and a CUP final drive on yours, as do many serious owners inc keep it lit etc.

NO myth about gearing or bouncy front ends on thse cars, only rose tinted specs !

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 3rd March 14:23

[Slippydiff]

D.no said:

I enjoyed that game of spot-the-difference. Thanks.

First was Meteor, second Slate. Both were great cars, but possibly a little too accomplished for my liking.
I'd have either back in a heartbeat :-)

[Slippydiff]

Porsche911R said:

I bet you did not have PASM on , !!! on those roads.

you know I am right FFS it's annoying ;-)

You forget David, I've owned and spanked four 964 RS's on the road when they were cheap cars, any 996/997 GT3 feels compliant after a 964RS ...

I'm sure PASM comes unstuck on track when pressed, but on the road it was none issue for me (couldn't say the same for the gearshift quality mind...) that of the 996's was far superior, and more in keeping with the other control weights IMO.

[Steve Rance]

With you on the gear shift Old Boy. Very notchy until very warm in the 997.

[BrotherMouzone]

lemmingjames said:

....The .2 market seems kinda active on the selling front, Ashgoods look to have sold their nice blue one and JZM have 'deposit taken' on the yellow one.

That JZM yellow must be the most expensive Comfort sold in recent years. Just goes to show cars with the ‘right colour and specs’ always sell.

[D.no]

Steve Rance said:

With you on the gear shift Old Boy. Very notchy until very warm in the 997.

Nonsense! It's like stroking an angels thigh through bearing coated gossamer gloves.




Oh alright - I'll give you that one. It's not ideal for the first hour, or so..

David, you're welcome to have a go in mine with the PASM on, or come along as a passenger. Bring a neck brace, and some spare fillings though just in case.

[BrotherMouzone]

Slippydiff said:

First was Meteor, second Slate. Both were great cars, but possibly a little too accomplished for my liking.
I'd have either back in a heartbeat :-)

Was Slate PTS? Can’t remember the last time I saw a 997 slate. Beautiful.