996 GT3 what’s your thoughts ?
Discussion
Slippydiff said:
Been keenly reading though all of this as I currently have a 996 turbo and was fully intending to change to a 996 GT3 (possibly GT4 or 997.1 GT3), pre global meltdown. May have to wait a while to sell the turbo now.
Think the .1 appeals in terms of looks and the fact that it’ll become 30 years old and therefore tax free in Ireland (where I’ll end up living) sooner but the .2 has the better engine and brakes. If I bought the .1 I think I’d upgrade the brakes and possibly try to replicate the Manthey 400 kit - any idea what’s involved and the approx cost?
Edited by Onetrackmind on Wednesday 25th March 16:31
Onetrackmind said:
This may be my perfect forever car!
Been keenly reading though all of this as I currently have a 996 turbo and was fully intending to change to a 996 GT3 (possibly GT4 or 998.1 GT3), pre global meltdown. May have to wait a while to sell the turbo now.
Think the .1 appeals in terms of looks and the fact that it’ll become 30 years old and therefore tax free in Ireland (where I’ll end up living) sooner but the .2 has the better engine and brakes. If I bought the .1 I think I’d upgrade the brakes and possibly try to replicate the Manthey 400 kit - any idea what’s involved and the approx cost?
Others on here better versed than me to tell you the ins and outs of the conversion but from what i gathr the Manthey conversion with gearbox was 22k. Then add all the other upgrades like suspension/brakes etc.Been keenly reading though all of this as I currently have a 996 turbo and was fully intending to change to a 996 GT3 (possibly GT4 or 998.1 GT3), pre global meltdown. May have to wait a while to sell the turbo now.
Think the .1 appeals in terms of looks and the fact that it’ll become 30 years old and therefore tax free in Ireland (where I’ll end up living) sooner but the .2 has the better engine and brakes. If I bought the .1 I think I’d upgrade the brakes and possibly try to replicate the Manthey 400 kit - any idea what’s involved and the approx cost?
I'd say you are better off buying a car thats already done as the build costs always run way ahead of what you'd planned.
I also considered a 991.1GT3 but too many about and not manual . Just my 2p of course
GT3Manthey said:
Others on here better versed than me to tell you the ins and outs of the conversion but from what i gathr the Manthey conversion with gearbox was 22k. Then add all the other upgrades like suspension/brakes etc.
I'd say you are better off buying a car thats already done as the build costs always run way ahead of what you'd planned.
I also considered a 991.1GT3 but too many about and not manual . Just my 2p of course
Thanks. Although, I've edited a typo in my post - I should have said 997.1 GT3 as a contender.I'd say you are better off buying a car thats already done as the build costs always run way ahead of what you'd planned.
I also considered a 991.1GT3 but too many about and not manual . Just my 2p of course
Do you know what the Manthey 400 upgrades were for the engine alone? Have read quite a few opinions saying the 996.1 GT3 engine isn't as epic as expected. Would want to address that.
Onetrackmind said:
Thanks. Although, I've edited a typo in my post - I should have said 997.1 GT3 as a contender.
Do you know what the Manthey 400 upgrades were for the engine alone? Have read quite a few opinions saying the 996.1 GT3 engine isn't as epic as expected. Would want to address that.
I have the first K400 "production" car. What was involved - MAF and OEM Filter delete. Instead, Manthey introduced a Cup Filter and a Carbon shroud around it. Instead of MAF, the Bosch Motronic was mapped to run Alpha-N. The rear deck was modified to allow the fitment of the Carbon shroud for the filter, also creating a ram-air effect at speed. The boat-anchor exhaust was ditched and instead Manthey fitted a beautifully made MM or Europipe full system, including equal length exhaust headers, custom X-pipe and 100 Cell race cats. The full exhaust system saves about 18kg on the OEM system. Power output - consistently around 395/405 bhp for all converted cars. Also, have seen Manthey K400 marginally edge 996.2s - but there is very little in it. A stock 996.2 walks away from a stock 996.1 with ease for comparison.Do you know what the Manthey 400 upgrades were for the engine alone? Have read quite a few opinions saying the 996.1 GT3 engine isn't as epic as expected. Would want to address that.
Onetrackmind said:
This may be my perfect forever car!
Been keenly reading though all of this as I currently have a 996 turbo and was fully intending to change to a 996 GT3 (possibly GT4 or 998.1 GT3), pre global meltdown. May have to wait a while to sell the turbo now.
Think the .1 appeals in terms of looks and the fact that it’ll become 30 years old and therefore tax free in Ireland (where I’ll end up living) sooner but the .2 has the better engine and brakes. If I bought the .1 I think I’d upgrade the brakes and possibly try to replicate the Manthey 400 kit - any idea what’s involved and the approx cost?
You should find a stock Mk1 adequate for the road (on track you may however find it lacking) but if you want to improve the top end power delivery and imbue the car with infinitely more character the K400 conversion is one way forward. Without wishing to duplicate Cherubator's post :Been keenly reading though all of this as I currently have a 996 turbo and was fully intending to change to a 996 GT3 (possibly GT4 or 998.1 GT3), pre global meltdown. May have to wait a while to sell the turbo now.
Think the .1 appeals in terms of looks and the fact that it’ll become 30 years old and therefore tax free in Ireland (where I’ll end up living) sooner but the .2 has the better engine and brakes. If I bought the .1 I think I’d upgrade the brakes and possibly try to replicate the Manthey 400 kit - any idea what’s involved and the approx cost?
The cost of reproducing the Manthey K400 conversion is dependent on how faithfully you want to reproduce it ...
The original Manthey conversion involves cutting the inside of the engine cover/rear spoiler away to enable the fitment of the Cup air filter and the requisite carbon fibre cold air duct.
The ECU is removed and and the original EPROM removed, and as I understand it a plug/socket replaces it, which in turn enables an alternative chip to be plugged in to the PCB which either has the necessary program to enable the engine to to run using a simplified management strategy Alpha N :
http://www.bayareamotorsport.com/alphan.html
or enables the chip to be programmed with the correct map.
Once those modifications are done, the complete exhaust is replaced with better flowing manifolds, much larger bore pipework, 200 cell cats, an X pipe and less restrictive silencers.
When it was first released, the conversion was circa £7-8K fitted. After Manthey ceased using Europipe, I suspect there was a price cut, I seem to recall seeing the conversion on JZM's website for circa £5K.
Alternatively you can fit a complete exhaust system and manifolds from M & M in Germany :
https://m-m-germany.de/
and get someone in the UK to remap to suit the improved exhaust.
Singh911 on here did the latter and ended up with circa 390hp and a soundtrack that makes a stock Mk1 & 2 sound distinctly tame.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=...
Drop him aPM and he'll no doubt tell you the cost of the exhaust, the remap and how to order off M & M.
Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 25th March 17:41
Slippydiff said:
Onetrackmind said:
This may be my perfect forever car!
Been keenly reading though all of this as I currently have a 996 turbo and was fully intending to change to a 996 GT3 (possibly GT4 or 998.1 GT3), pre global meltdown. May have to wait a while to sell the turbo now.
Think the .1 appeals in terms of looks and the fact that it’ll become 30 years old and therefore tax free in Ireland (where I’ll end up living) sooner but the .2 has the better engine and brakes. If I bought the .1 I think I’d upgrade the brakes and possibly try to replicate the Manthey 400 kit - any idea what’s involved and the approx cost?
You should find a stock Mk1 adequate for the road (on track you may however find it lacking) but if you want to improve the top end power delivery and imbue the car with infinitely more character the K400 conversion is one way forward. Without wishing to duplicate Cherubator's post :Been keenly reading though all of this as I currently have a 996 turbo and was fully intending to change to a 996 GT3 (possibly GT4 or 998.1 GT3), pre global meltdown. May have to wait a while to sell the turbo now.
Think the .1 appeals in terms of looks and the fact that it’ll become 30 years old and therefore tax free in Ireland (where I’ll end up living) sooner but the .2 has the better engine and brakes. If I bought the .1 I think I’d upgrade the brakes and possibly try to replicate the Manthey 400 kit - any idea what’s involved and the approx cost?
The cost of reproducing the Manthey K400 conversion is dependent on how faithfully you want to reproduce it ...
The original Manthey conversion involves cutting the inside of the engine cover/rear spoiler away to enable the fitment of the Cup air filter and the requisite carbon fibre cold air duct.
The ECU is removed and and the original EPROM removed, and as I understand it a plug/socket replaces it, which in turn enables an alternative chip to be plugged in to the PCB which either has the necessary program to enable the engine to to run using a simplified management strategy Alpha N :
http://www.bayareamotorsport.com/alphan.html
or enables the chip to be programmed with the correct map.
Once those modifications are done, the complete exhaust is replaced with better flowing manifolds, much larger bore pipework, 200 cell cats, an X pipe and less restrictive silencers.
When it was first released, the conversion was circa £7-8K fitted. After Manthey ceased using Europipe, I suspect there was a price cut, I seem to recall seeing the conversion on JZM's website for circa £5K.
Alternatively you can fit a complete exhaust system and manifolds from M & M in Germany :
https://m-m-germany.de/
and get someone in the UK to remap to suit the improved exhaust.
Singh911 on here did the latter and ended up with circa 390hp and a soundtrack that makes a stock Mk1 & 2 sound distinctly tame.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=...
Drop him aPM and he'll no doubt tell you the cost of the exhaust, the remap and how to order off M & M.
Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 25th March 17:41
ditchvisitor said:
I’m very tempted to go down this route with mine, keep the standard airbox etc but get an M&M and a remap.
Doing the exhaust and remap will get you 95% of the way there for probably 50% of the cost.The earlier Europipe exhaust system that Manthey used (albeit they utilised M&M manifolds even with the Europipe system) combined with the Cup air filter makes for a very unique soundtrack, whether it's worth the extra time, money (and irreversible modification to the engine cover) to fit the Cup filter, remove the MAF and reconfigure the ECU, is a moot point.
Slippydiff said:
You should find a stock Mk1 adequate for the road (on track you may however find it lacking) but if you want to improve the top end power delivery and imbue the car with infinitely more character the K400 conversion is one way forward. Without wishing to duplicate Cherubator's post :
The cost of reproducing the Manthey K400 conversion is dependent on how faithfully you want to reproduce it ...
The original Manthey conversion involves cutting the inside of the engine cover/rear spoiler away to enable the fitment of the Cup air filter and the requisite carbon fibre cold air duct.
The ECU is removed and and the original EPROM removed, and as I understand it a plug/socket replaces it, which in turn enables an alternative chip to be plugged in to the PCB which either has the necessary program to enable the engine to to run using a simplified management strategy Alpha N :
http://www.bayareamotorsport.com/alphan.html
or enables the chip to be programmed with the correct map.
Once those modifications are done, the complete exhaust is replaced with better flowing manifolds, much larger bore pipework, 200 cell cats, an X pipe and less restrictive silencers.
When it was first released, the conversion was circa £7-8K fitted. After Manthey ceased using Europipe, I suspect there was a price cut, I seem to recall seeing the conversion on JZM's website for circa £5K.
Alternatively you can fit a complete exhaust system and manifolds from M & M in Germany :
https://m-m-germany.de/
and get someone in the UK to remap to suit the improved exhaust.
Singh911 on here did the latter and ended up with circa 390hp and a soundtrack that makes a stock Mk1 & 2 sound distinctly tame.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=...
Drop him aPM and he'll no doubt tell you the cost of the exhaust, the remap and how to order off M & M.
Good evening Henry. The cost of reproducing the Manthey K400 conversion is dependent on how faithfully you want to reproduce it ...
The original Manthey conversion involves cutting the inside of the engine cover/rear spoiler away to enable the fitment of the Cup air filter and the requisite carbon fibre cold air duct.
The ECU is removed and and the original EPROM removed, and as I understand it a plug/socket replaces it, which in turn enables an alternative chip to be plugged in to the PCB which either has the necessary program to enable the engine to to run using a simplified management strategy Alpha N :
http://www.bayareamotorsport.com/alphan.html
or enables the chip to be programmed with the correct map.
Once those modifications are done, the complete exhaust is replaced with better flowing manifolds, much larger bore pipework, 200 cell cats, an X pipe and less restrictive silencers.
When it was first released, the conversion was circa £7-8K fitted. After Manthey ceased using Europipe, I suspect there was a price cut, I seem to recall seeing the conversion on JZM's website for circa £5K.
Alternatively you can fit a complete exhaust system and manifolds from M & M in Germany :
https://m-m-germany.de/
and get someone in the UK to remap to suit the improved exhaust.
Singh911 on here did the latter and ended up with circa 390hp and a soundtrack that makes a stock Mk1 & 2 sound distinctly tame.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=...
Drop him aPM and he'll no doubt tell you the cost of the exhaust, the remap and how to order off M & M.
Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 25th March 17:41
Those engine and exhaust pics look very familiar :-)
Having spoken to another seller prior to buying my car he quoted that the Manthey fitted to his car had a bill of 22k including gearbox build.
Does this sound feasible ?
GT3Manthey said:
Good evening Henry.
Those engine and exhaust pics look very familiar :-)
Having spoken to another seller prior to buying my car he quoted that the Manthey fitted to his car had a bill of 22k including gearbox build.
Does this sound feasible ?
I have the original paperwork with my car - Olaf kind of billed himself...Those engine and exhaust pics look very familiar :-)
Having spoken to another seller prior to buying my car he quoted that the Manthey fitted to his car had a bill of 22k including gearbox build.
Does this sound feasible ?
Bear in mind, a lot of work was done on the suspension too - all rose jointed, quite a few Cup bits, build gearbox, diff, radiator conversion, Mk2 brakes, rear 350mm brake conversion etc...
I have more than EUR45k worth of invoices. Some of the Manthey tax is truly frightening, They were infamous in the area for charging more per hour than Porsche Centrum Koblenz... Factor in some Porsche Motorsport parts and it gets frightening
Cheburator mk2 said:
I have the original paperwork with my car - Olaf kind of billed himself...
Bear in mind, a lot of work was done on the suspension too - all rose jointed, quite a few Cup bits, build gearbox, diff, radiator conversion, Mk2 brakes, rear 350mm brake conversion etc...
I have more than EUR45k worth of invoices. Some of the Manthey tax is truly frightening, They were infamous in the area for charging more per hour than Porsche Centrum Koblenz... Factor in some Porsche Motorsport parts and it gets frightening
Tks makes sense then Bear in mind, a lot of work was done on the suspension too - all rose jointed, quite a few Cup bits, build gearbox, diff, radiator conversion, Mk2 brakes, rear 350mm brake conversion etc...
I have more than EUR45k worth of invoices. Some of the Manthey tax is truly frightening, They were infamous in the area for charging more per hour than Porsche Centrum Koblenz... Factor in some Porsche Motorsport parts and it gets frightening
Guess its one of those scenarios where you have to add other upgrades to match the current upgrades so the bill escalates.
I've yet to go through the build list for my car but I suspect the numbers aren't dissimilar
GT3Manthey said:
Good evening Henry.
Those engine and exhaust pics look very familiar :-)
Having spoken to another seller prior to buying my car he quoted that the Manthey fitted to his car had a bill of 22k including gearbox build.
Does this sound feasible ?
Oh yes, Herr Manthey has a very heavy pen indeed Those engine and exhaust pics look very familiar :-)
Having spoken to another seller prior to buying my car he quoted that the Manthey fitted to his car had a bill of 22k including gearbox build.
Does this sound feasible ?
If by gearbox build they meant transmission build, then steel synchros, a decent uprated diff/casing, shorter final drive, bearings etc, I'd imagine 22K euros would be entirely possible ....GT3Manthey said:
Good evening Henry.
Those engine and exhaust pics look very familiar :-)
Having spoken to another seller prior to buying my car he quoted that the Manthey fitted to his car had a bill of 22k including gearbox build.
Does this sound feasible ?
How are you enjoying the MK1 David?Those engine and exhaust pics look very familiar :-)
Having spoken to another seller prior to buying my car he quoted that the Manthey fitted to his car had a bill of 22k including gearbox build.
Does this sound feasible ?
Thanks guys.
Seems that a similar outcome to the Manthey K400 kits can be achieved for a reasonable cost.
Will definitely consider the mk1.
Waiting on parts to get my 996 turbo gearbox rebuilt and was then going to sell but not sure that's wise given the current situation. Worst case, if I can't sell, is I'l keep it and delay the GT3.
Seems that a similar outcome to the Manthey K400 kits can be achieved for a reasonable cost.
Will definitely consider the mk1.
Waiting on parts to get my 996 turbo gearbox rebuilt and was then going to sell but not sure that's wise given the current situation. Worst case, if I can't sell, is I'l keep it and delay the GT3.
Slippydiff said:
GT3Manthey said:
Good evening Henry.
Those engine and exhaust pics look very familiar :-)
Having spoken to another seller prior to buying my car he quoted that the Manthey fitted to his car had a bill of 22k including gearbox build.
Does this sound feasible ?
Oh yes, Herr Manthey has a very heavy pen indeed Those engine and exhaust pics look very familiar :-)
Having spoken to another seller prior to buying my car he quoted that the Manthey fitted to his car had a bill of 22k including gearbox build.
Does this sound feasible ?
If by gearbox build they meant transmission build, then steel synchros, a decent uprated diff/casing, shorter final drive, bearings etc, I'd imagine 22K euros would be entirely possible ....Onetrackmind said:
Thanks guys.
Seems that a similar outcome to the Manthey K400 kits can be achieved for a reasonable cost.
Will definitely consider the mk1.
Waiting on parts to get my 996 turbo gearbox rebuilt and was then going to sell but not sure that's wise given the current situation. Worst case, if I can't sell, is I'l keep it and delay the GT3.
I don't know much about the 997 Manthey product tbh.Seems that a similar outcome to the Manthey K400 kits can be achieved for a reasonable cost.
Will definitely consider the mk1.
Waiting on parts to get my 996 turbo gearbox rebuilt and was then going to sell but not sure that's wise given the current situation. Worst case, if I can't sell, is I'l keep it and delay the GT3.
I've had a few 997's so this time wanted the slimmer bodied 996. The car is awesome btw and i like the engine note better too.
All personal preference of course
Dan911 said:
How are you enjoying the MK1 David?
Well she's tucked up at JZM currently as i took her back for some suspension adjustments and now they are in lockdown.Initial impressions are that im super happy. The car feels so direct and that MAnthey is amazing at 6k revs.
If i was to have built a car myself then this would be my perfect car.
Tks for asking BTW
BrotherMouzone said:
All of these discussions just to show 996.2 is the real Mezger performance ‘bargain’ 
Cracking cars. Before i bought my car i sat in a 996.2 at JZM that had just been sold but i wanted the upgrades so went immediately back to my Manthey.Its not for everyone thou as some want originality which i also get
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