996 GT3 what’s your thoughts ?
Discussion
Porsche911R said:
you just don't understand driving do you ?, that's what I find odd about forum talk, do people drive these cars !!! not when you look at the miles on them it seems. they own them but have never driven them, a lot of people even say on here they don't break the speed limit !! so that's 60mph in the UK on a B road !
My car is stupid fast over a 996 and I mean night and day fast, slow vs a 765LT these days, but fast vs NA porkers.
The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people.
pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!! VERY frustrating to drive and then a bit dull, when you do find a longer straight the car cannot cope at 120mph with UK bumps. but that's another issue not for your answer.
the 991.2 you pull out a 2nd gear bend, you are changing to 3rd ,4th even, YOU COVER GROUND FASTER IN A SHORTER DISTANCE, yes you are doing daft speeds >120 mph comes up quite often in the 991.2 GT3 140 mph even, if you don't see or want to see those speed sell the car.
I know some have on here as they don't want to see those speed and it's not fun at any speed, again that's some forum myth line !
the point is the cars faster so you get to change gear as the car hits faster speeds between bends, that's involving as you then really do have to brake more due to going so fast, and the torque out of any bend gets the back end moving every single time, it's a fun car to drive.
the 996 you change to 3rd and it's quite slow, you then are just a bit too fast to change back to 2nd , it's very much like the GT4, a leave it in 3rd car !!
totally pointless as a diver to have fun in.
A short final drive would at a guess, (as I have not driven a CUP final drive car) transform it as you might see >6k revs then in 3rd in the UK B roads of joy. And serious owners all on here have fitted one !! funny that !
Cars can be slower and fun if gear right, my Golf CS is fun but I can get to 5th gear on the same bits of road as the gearing is so short in it.
the 996GT3 was frustrating the GT4 a bit dull, both for the same reasons, the difference was the 996GT3 had that magic engine which sadly you don't get to play with for 98% driving !!!
drive a Ferrari and you are knocking up and down the box, INVOLVING for an auto as you are doing some thing !!!
oem GT3 owners and it upsets most when I say it, wear rose tinted specs either that or they just like the idea of owning one and potter about it in showing off.
who knows.
All i know is what I have posted is the real truth about driving the cars and I don't get why others say black is white.
but goto the 981 section, it's the best car ever !! the Carrera T hype and the 981 Spyder hype is just stupid !!!
It's just the GT3 hype has been going on much longer and I get frustrated by the false information or even lies people come out with.
most R owners seem to have come from older GT3 backgrounds and have enjoyed the swap. not all but a lot of R owners.
I still fancy my 997.1 GT3 project one day but letting go of the manual 991.2 GT3 is a very hard thing to do.
And breathe ...My car is stupid fast over a 996 and I mean night and day fast, slow vs a 765LT these days, but fast vs NA porkers.
The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people.
pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!! VERY frustrating to drive and then a bit dull, when you do find a longer straight the car cannot cope at 120mph with UK bumps. but that's another issue not for your answer.
the 991.2 you pull out a 2nd gear bend, you are changing to 3rd ,4th even, YOU COVER GROUND FASTER IN A SHORTER DISTANCE, yes you are doing daft speeds >120 mph comes up quite often in the 991.2 GT3 140 mph even, if you don't see or want to see those speed sell the car.
I know some have on here as they don't want to see those speed and it's not fun at any speed, again that's some forum myth line !
the point is the cars faster so you get to change gear as the car hits faster speeds between bends, that's involving as you then really do have to brake more due to going so fast, and the torque out of any bend gets the back end moving every single time, it's a fun car to drive.
the 996 you change to 3rd and it's quite slow, you then are just a bit too fast to change back to 2nd , it's very much like the GT4, a leave it in 3rd car !!
totally pointless as a diver to have fun in.
A short final drive would at a guess, (as I have not driven a CUP final drive car) transform it as you might see >6k revs then in 3rd in the UK B roads of joy. And serious owners all on here have fitted one !! funny that !
Cars can be slower and fun if gear right, my Golf CS is fun but I can get to 5th gear on the same bits of road as the gearing is so short in it.
the 996GT3 was frustrating the GT4 a bit dull, both for the same reasons, the difference was the 996GT3 had that magic engine which sadly you don't get to play with for 98% driving !!!
drive a Ferrari and you are knocking up and down the box, INVOLVING for an auto as you are doing some thing !!!
oem GT3 owners and it upsets most when I say it, wear rose tinted specs either that or they just like the idea of owning one and potter about it in showing off.
who knows.
All i know is what I have posted is the real truth about driving the cars and I don't get why others say black is white.
but goto the 981 section, it's the best car ever !! the Carrera T hype and the 981 Spyder hype is just stupid !!!
It's just the GT3 hype has been going on much longer and I get frustrated by the false information or even lies people come out with.
most R owners seem to have come from older GT3 backgrounds and have enjoyed the swap. not all but a lot of R owners.
I still fancy my 997.1 GT3 project one day but letting go of the manual 991.2 GT3 is a very hard thing to do.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 4th March 09:33
Are you the same individual who preached some years ago, that getting caught speeding was now far too risky because the penalties were to be means tested ??
I thought so ...
Same old, same old David. The only thing consistent about your diatribes, is their inconsistency. Quelle surprise.
I've never found the gearing of a 996 GT3 an issue because I never drive my road cars anywhere near its engine or chassis limits. On saying that, its an easy and relatively cheap fix with a shorter final drive. A good upgrade on the 996GT3 is a cup diff and final drive. The 996 diff is mechanical and much better than the 997 unit which has an electrical element to.
Personally I find the 996GT3 the pinacle of the analogue water cooled 911. Still nothing to touch it for reward and engagement.
Personally I find the 996GT3 the pinacle of the analogue water cooled 911. Still nothing to touch it for reward and engagement.
Porsche911R said:
you just don't understand driving do you ?, that's what I find odd about forum talk, do people drive these cars !!! not when you look at the miles on them it seems. they own them but have never driven them, a lot of people even say on here they don't break the speed limit !! so that's 60mph in the UK on a B road !
Nah bro, all the old cars are having the mythical refresh so it keeps them off the roads as we await pixies and fairys to make the partsPorsche911R said:
My car is stupid fast over a 996 and I mean night and day fast, slow vs a 765LT these days, but fast vs NA porkers.
The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people.
Whats the point of having a redline at 9k and not using it, or even just tickling it?The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people.
Porsche911R said:
pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!!
Weird, mine manages to find 6th gear quite easily, if you couldnt get out of 3rd and it took 20 seconds for your to rev up enough to warrant a gear change, maybe yours was abit f
ked? Of course, one would never suggest you was scared to bury the throttle to get to the change quickerPorsche911R said:
VERY frustrating to drive and then a bit dull, when you do find a longer straight the car cannot cope at 120mph with UK bumps. but that's another issue not for your answer.
Are you advocating that we should break the NSL by doing double to find faults with a car on a bumpy road? One day, maybe ill reach driving god status where i dont have to take into account bumps/dips/chamber changes, scan the road for said obstacles and be able to lay a 3d like grid of the road via the eyeball even around corners. But then ill be a robot and driving will become dullPorsche911R said:
the 991.2 you pull out a 2nd gear bend, you are changing to 3rd ,4th even, YOU COVER GROUND FASTER IN A SHORTER DISTANCE, yes you are doing daft speeds >120 mph comes up quite often in the 991.2 GT3 140 mph even, if you don't see or want to see those speed sell the car.
How would you know this? Are you tracking the car regularly? Porsche911R said:
the point is the cars faster so you get to change gear as the car hits faster speeds between bends, that's involving as you then really do have to brake more due to going so fast, and the torque out of any bend gets the back end moving every single time, it's a fun car to drive.
If you used more of the redline, you wouldnt have to change gear so muchPorsche911R said:
A short final drive would at a guess, (as I have not driven a CUP final drive car) transform it as you might see >6k revs then in 3rd in the UK B roads of joy. And serious owners all on here have fitted one !! funny that !
Think the 'serious' owners that do that are more track focussed, i could poll the 996.2 Owners Group if you like that has a mix of people in or are you suggesting that we're not serious owners if we dont want to go down the track slag route?Porsche911R said:
the 996GT3 was frustrating the GT4 a bit dull, both for the same reasons, the difference was the 996GT3 had that magic engine which sadly you don't get to play with for 98% driving !!!
By the sounds of it, you dont use 20% of your engine so whats the point in having the car?Porsche911R said:
drive a Ferrari and you are knocking up and down the box, INVOLVING for an auto as you are doing some thing !!!
Which Ferrari?Porsche911R said:
oem GT3 owners and it upsets most when I say it, wear rose tinted specs either that or they just like the idea of owning one and potter about it in showing off.
who knows.[/qoute]
I thought that was the reserve of the newer GT3's, hence the Overs Market and low mileage cars for sale?
Im sure any potential purchaser of any car doing their research will be aware of any foibles a car might have, especially a car thats 15 years old but nothing a test drive wouldnt fix
who knows.[/qoute]
I thought that was the reserve of the newer GT3's, hence the Overs Market and low mileage cars for sale?
Porsche911R said:
All i know is what I have posted is the real truth about driving the cars and I don't get why others say black is white.
You should have a youtube channel, dressed up as the masked magician where you can talk about these driving truths. No point you being the Stig as it doesnt talkIm sure any potential purchaser of any car doing their research will be aware of any foibles a car might have, especially a car thats 15 years old but nothing a test drive wouldnt fix
Steve Rance said:
I've never found the gearing of a 996 GT3 an issue because I never drive my road cars anywhere near its engine or chassis limits. On saying that, its an easy and relatively cheap fix with a shorter final drive. A good upgrade on the 996GT3 is a cup diff and final drive. The 996 diff is mechanical and much better than the 997 unit which has an electrical element to.
Personally I find the 996GT3 the pinacle of the analogue water cooled 911. Still nothing to touch it for reward and engagement.
Thats all well and good Steve, but as David has pointed out in the past, you dont know sPersonally I find the 996GT3 the pinacle of the analogue water cooled 911. Still nothing to touch it for reward and engagement.
t about driving 
Dammit said:
DK’s first sentence did generate a genuine guffaw though, such was the witless irony, so he’s got at least that much value as a contributor here.
It would appear his medication ran out on Monday ? He seems to have worked himself up into quite a lather over the last 36 hours.I imagine he'll drag himself away from his keyboard, then climb down off his high horse and head to the dispensary either today or tomorrow. Once he starts back on his meds, they'll kick in within 24-48 hours. Then all will be sweetness and light once again
lemmingjames said:
Thats all well and good Steve, but as David has pointed out in the past, you dont know st about driving
To be fair to David, he never said that. to be honest I love his enthusiasm and on balance agree with him more than disagree. He will be the first to say that he'd love a 996GT3 with some decent dampers and a shorter final drive. t about driving The thing about a 996GT3 is how infinately adjustable the chassis is and how easy it is to change the personality of the car by a geo change. Like any thoroughbred racing car it is extremely sensitive to geometry and set up changes. The great thing about that is that if you know what you are doing you can create exactly what you want from the car. The downside to that is that clumbsy set ups can feel horrible. There are a lot of sweets in the adjustable 'sweety jar' on these cars and they call for a lot of understanding. The trick is to know exactly what you want from the car when you have a geo applied. Whether you want a 'blunt' or a 'sharp' car, a good tuner will give you a balance - which is the key thing
browngt3 said:
... I agree on some poorly surfaced and very tight B roads there are better choices. Most of the time, however, I thoroughly enjoyed mine. With plenty of working the gears and revs too...
I know, the Mezger is such a tractable unit, and it isn't all about absolute speed... Heck, a new Golf CS is quicker, but the overall experience is dull as dishwater in comparison... Even the new 911s are heading that way to a large degree - I had a decent go in a mate's one of the last 991.2 GTS ever produced - mentally fast and capable, but it left me totally cold in terms of driving enjoyment. I may as well buy a new M4 on 0% APR PCP browngt3 said:
Must admit I am mystified by the 996GT3 hate. Seems to me most current and ex owners love them.
I agree on some poorly surfaced and very tight B roads there are better choices. Most of the time, however, I thoroughly enjoyed mine. With plenty of working the gears and revs too.
I don't think there's widespread hate for the 996 GT3's driving dynamics (the looks are definitely divisive, but that's another story altogether) I agree on some poorly surfaced and very tight B roads there are better choices. Most of the time, however, I thoroughly enjoyed mine. With plenty of working the gears and revs too.
Our learned friends criticism of the car for it's poor manners on bumpy B roads rather misses the point of the car. It's a low, stiffly damped/sprung car that was primarily designed to enable the manufacturer to go circuit racing. Any expectations he harboured that it would be adept at dealing with our own, very unique, bumpy B roads here in the UK, should have been tempered with a healthy dose of common sense.
If a high speed passage across bumpy B roads is his thing, a 996 turbo with its 4wd and more compliant suspension bushing and damping/springing, would have been far better suited to his needs back in 2003-4 (or an M3 CSL with its wonderfully judged, long-travel, compliant suspension) but of course he found fault (as did many) with it's SMG transmission. As the old adage goes "There's no pleasing some folk" ...
But there's another old adage "Empty barrels make the most noise", this particular empty barrel has been around many years, and is without a doubt the noisiest. It does occasionally get tedious, but is best ignored, though occasionally it falls to the likes of Steve R and others on here to muffle its worst excesses.
I must say, I do find the idea that you need to be bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear to really have fun on the road, very strange indeed. If that IS the case, I must have been doing something wrong all these years ...
Porsche911R said:
isaldiri said:
Porsche911R said:
NO myth about gearing
Just remind me again, how much less mph is the fabled manual 991.2gt3 doing at max revs in 2nd and 3rd gear compared to the same in the 6gt3.....?Blah
Blah
From memory that would be 2-3 mph different? 5 at the most?
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r...
Porsche911R said:
Lots of garbage but in particular..
you just don't understand driving do you ?
pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!!
you take 20 seconds to get through 3rd gear in a 996 gt3 and you try to lecture people about driving.....? I mean.. seriously....?you just don't understand driving do you ?
pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!!
Porsche911R said:
I get frustrated by the false information or even lies people come out with.
Self awareness is a virtue. try it sometimes. isaldiri said:
Porsche911R said:
Lots of garbage but in particular..
you just don't understand driving do you ?
pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!!
you take 20 seconds to get through 3rd gear in a 996 gt3 and you try to lecture people about driving.....? I mean.. seriously....?you just don't understand driving do you ?
pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!!
Porsche911R said:
I get frustrated by the false information or even lies people come out with.
Self awareness is a virtue. try it sometimes. If you drive them you know, if you talk on forums you don't.
next you will be telling us Mass makes no odds on braking distance , o wait !!!!
It takes about what ? 25 seconds for a 996 GT3 to get to 150mph
the 991.2 GT3 takes only 16 seconds to do the same.
post the graph back :-) in a a few hours that will keep you busy a bit.
Steve Rance said:
lemmingjames said:
Thats all well and good Steve, but as David has pointed out in the past, you dont know st about driving
To be fair to David, he never said that. to be honest I love his enthusiasm and on balance agree with him more than disagree. He will be the first to say that he'd love a 996GT3 with some decent dampers and a shorter final drive. t about driving The thing about a 996GT3 is how infinately adjustable the chassis is and how easy it is to change the personality of the car by a geo change. Like any thoroughbred racing car it is extremely sensitive to geometry and set up changes. The great thing about that is that if you know what you are doing you can create exactly what you want from the car. The downside to that is that clumbsy set ups can feel horrible. There are a lot of sweets in the adjustable 'sweety jar' on these cars and they call for a lot of understanding. The trick is to know exactly what you want from the car when you have a geo applied. Whether you want a 'blunt' or a 'sharp' car, a good tuner will give you a balance - which is the key thing
lemmingjames said:
Porsche911R said:
My car is stupid fast over a 996 and I mean night and day fast, slow vs a 765LT these days, but fast vs NA porkers.
The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people.
What's the point of having a redline at 9k and not using it, or even just tickling it?
Do you know what the 9k redline is helpful for ? seems not.....My car is stupid fast over a 996 and I mean night and day fast, slow vs a 765LT these days, but fast vs NA porkers.
The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people.
What's the point of having a redline at 9k and not using it, or even just tickling it?
the 991.2 makes peak power at 8250rpm and if you change at that or just above it drops you in a nice place in the next gear.
On track because it's a manual the 9k limit gives you options to stay in gear and not loose out on power as it don't drop off like most cars do even the 991.1 GT3 drops in power.
could save you a gear change pre bend or just allows you to keep it there with both hands on the wheel.
works on the road also, you might hit 9k in 2nd gear on a exit to a bend and want to wait to change to 3rd.
As I keep saying, forum comments by non owners who really don't have a scooby or have driven these cars
I'll skip the rest of your points as they all relate to me not hitting 9k every gear change !
But I have now explained why that's the case :-)
Porsche911R said:
wooooosssshhhhh, you yet again miss the point, I give up, you clearly don't drive these as intended, 5, 10 seconds 20 seconds it's a moot figure in the context of the full picture how the car ,gears and BHP are all relative.. I don't own a GT4 or 996 GT3 atm to time it to the milli second.
It takes about what ? 25 seconds for a 996 GT3 to get to 150mph
the 991.2 GT3 takes only 16 seconds to do the same.
Your comparison above about time taken to get to speed X is irrelevant and in no way makes your prior claim about 20 seconds needed after changing from 2nd gear to get to 6k rpm any less bloody stupid. That's not timing things to the millsecond, that's simply engaging your brain before typing out more nonsenseIt takes about what ? 25 seconds for a 996 GT3 to get to 150mph
the 991.2 GT3 takes only 16 seconds to do the same.
As far as 'driving as intended' that you constantly claim you do compared to everyone else - you do realise that down hangar straight at Silverstone (well you won't because you don't track your car) there's maybe about 10-15mph maxmimum difference between a 991.2 gt3 and a 996 gt3 if both are driven competently before having to brake for stowe? It's not exactly night and day as you are suggesting in your post.
Porsche911R said:
If you drive them you know, if you talk on forums you don't.
Which explains your many rants about all manner of things so at least you've got that right....broken clocks and all apply I suppose.Slippydiff said:
I must say, I do find the idea that you need to be bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear to really have fun on the road, very strange indeed. If that IS the case, I must have been doing something wrong all these years ...
as I state above there is no need, but the older GT3's really do come alive above 6k revs , or 5700 I cannot remember the addiction rpm figure where the magic happens. No point owning a mezger and not having the full experience, it's a high reving unit. so very unexciting below 5k.it's that simple that getting a 996 GT3 or 997 to hit that magic for me was too few and far between, it's pretty much that simple.
The cars pretty slow as I have just pointed out a few threads back that you never see red line in 3rd , AlI I remember about it was waiting and waiting and really never having the magic often enough unless you want to drive like a t
t on A roads which is pointless.As Steve R said an easy fix with a cup final drive and some damper for road mannors but not many people do it and say black is white all is fine.
Yes I drive a bit too fast in my GT3, but what's too fast these days when the limit is 60mph ! you get a ticket for 66mph and the futures bleek with black box's fitted to new cars from 2021 or what ever the date is.
Porsche911R said:
Do you know what the 9k redline is helpful for ? seems not.....
the 991.2 makes peak power at 8250rpm and if you change at that or just above it drops you in a nice place in the next gear.
If you are aiming to maximize acceleration you change at 9k - not at 8250 or just a bit above. the 991.2 makes peak power at 8250rpm and if you change at that or just above it drops you in a nice place in the next gear.
isaldiri said:
Porsche911R said:
Do you know what the 9k redline is helpful for ? seems not.....
the 991.2 makes peak power at 8250rpm and if you change at that or just above it drops you in a nice place in the next gear.
If you are aiming to maximize acceleration you change at 9k - not at 8250 or just a bit above. the 991.2 makes peak power at 8250rpm and if you change at that or just above it drops you in a nice place in the next gear.
t about.I am GOING to do some tests on rpm though this spring so will be interesting to see what if any changes changing at 8300 ve 8900 is in the REAL world.
seat of the bum and on track the car feels and drives nicer changing about 8300/8500rpm, this drops you at MAX torque of 460NM time and time again and feels strong as a ox and rewarding.
I'll stay in gear as I have stated coming upto a bend or mid bend and the 9k give you that option to do as much.
I am taking a stab in the dark here that changing at 8900 will be slower you have lost a ton load or Torque(100 nm infact) and the BHP is falling off, you are then put back in a falling torque band. if it's quicker the seat of the bum don't agree. And I drive for enjoyment/involvement.
I know you love graphs and maths but noting is like doing REAL times and distance graph with a vbox.
time and some real results will prove a point either way, I'll make sure I post them up.
The issue is the car picks up so bloody fast @ 8k I might have to get some shift lights fitted.
watching revs or trying to pick a tone , doing the flat s
t and changing gear is all very INVOLVING, over pressing a microswitch or worst like most leave the PDK cars in full auto mode.So the debate on shift points will have to wait if you interested what's fastest, I am going to post FACTs on that point.
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