996 GT3 what’s your thoughts ?
Discussion
Jesus, this is getting tedious, 911R...
Pretty much every thread that you have joined and offered an often ill-founded and subjective opinion on has turned into a mess.
You remind me of a guy on a E46 M3 Facepalm group that I frequent. He did not gel with his car and sold his E46 M3 because it was s
t (his words) and bought a 335d instead. Apparently, the 335d can sort out the COVID19 problem, we were told... Now, normally you would expect the said member to leave the group and keep his opinion to himself or I guess to join a 335d afficionados group. But no, instead, every time an E46 M3 prospective buyer joins the group with questions, that dhead is there to share his opinion how st as a concept the E46 M3 and how much better the OP would be if he buys an E9x 335d...
I am all for pluralism and freedom of expression having grown up on the other side of the Iron Curtain, but sometimes, just sometimes, a little bit of self-censorship can go a long way...
Pretty much every thread that you have joined and offered an often ill-founded and subjective opinion on has turned into a mess.
You remind me of a guy on a E46 M3 Facepalm group that I frequent. He did not gel with his car and sold his E46 M3 because it was s
t (his words) and bought a 335d instead. Apparently, the 335d can sort out the COVID19 problem, we were told... Now, normally you would expect the said member to leave the group and keep his opinion to himself or I guess to join a 335d afficionados group. But no, instead, every time an E46 M3 prospective buyer joins the group with questions, that dhead is there to share his opinion how st as a concept the E46 M3 and how much better the OP would be if he buys an E9x 335d... I am all for pluralism and freedom of expression having grown up on the other side of the Iron Curtain, but sometimes, just sometimes, a little bit of self-censorship can go a long way...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Wednesday 4th March 16:14
Porsche911R said:
I am maximizing road/track enjoyment, lap times I don't give a st about.
I am GOING to do some tests on rpm though this spring so will be interesting to see what if any changes changing at 8300 ve 8900 is in the REAL world.
seat of the bum and on track the car feels and drives nicer changing about 8300/8500rpm, this drops you at MAX torque of 460NM time and time again and feels strong as a ox and rewarding.
I'll stay in gear as I have stated coming upto a bend or mid bend and the 9k give you that option to do as much.
I am taking a stab in the dark here that changing at 8900 will be slower you have lost a ton load or Torque(100 nm infact) and the BHP is falling off, you are then put back in a falling torque band. if it's quicker the seat of the bum don't agree. And I drive for enjoyment/involvement.
I know you love graphs and maths but noting is like doing REAL times and distance graph with a vbox.
time and some real results will prove a point either way, I'll make sure I post them up.
The issue is the car picks up so bloody fast @ 8k I might have to get some shift lights fitted.
watching revs or trying to pick a tone , doing the flat st and changing gear is all very INVOLVING, over pressing a microswitch or worst like most leave the PDK cars in full auto mode.
So the debate on shift points will have to wait if you interested what's fastest, I am going to post FACTs on that point.
given you took 20 seconds to get to 6k rpm after changing from 2nd gear in a 6gt3, taking any of your so called facts or test results at face value is going to need a massive dose of salt.....t about.I am GOING to do some tests on rpm though this spring so will be interesting to see what if any changes changing at 8300 ve 8900 is in the REAL world.
seat of the bum and on track the car feels and drives nicer changing about 8300/8500rpm, this drops you at MAX torque of 460NM time and time again and feels strong as a ox and rewarding.
I'll stay in gear as I have stated coming upto a bend or mid bend and the 9k give you that option to do as much.
I am taking a stab in the dark here that changing at 8900 will be slower you have lost a ton load or Torque(100 nm infact) and the BHP is falling off, you are then put back in a falling torque band. if it's quicker the seat of the bum don't agree. And I drive for enjoyment/involvement.
I know you love graphs and maths but noting is like doing REAL times and distance graph with a vbox.
time and some real results will prove a point either way, I'll make sure I post them up.
The issue is the car picks up so bloody fast @ 8k I might have to get some shift lights fitted.
watching revs or trying to pick a tone , doing the flat s
t and changing gear is all very INVOLVING, over pressing a microswitch or worst like most leave the PDK cars in full auto mode.So the debate on shift points will have to wait if you interested what's fastest, I am going to post FACTs on that point.
The 996GT3 should in my view be looked at in the context of it's succession to the 993RS ...
Please don't pick me up on minor numerical differences ... this is all from memory !
The 996 Gen1 GT3 was the proof of the water cooling of the Mezger engine. (The 959 had water cooled cylinder heads).
We all know that the non GT water cooled engine was to become a real mess.
The Gen1 GT3 3.6 produced 360bhp at 7600 rpm and 273 ft lbs torque at 5300 ?
The 993RS maxed out at 300 bhp at 6800 ? rpm and 250 ft lbs torque at the same 5300 ??
The Gen1 Gt3 was reaching 100 mph in under 10 seconds and reached more then 190mph ... the 993RS was probably 12 seconds to 100 and reached 178 ??
And the Gen1 set the scene for the substantially lightened Gen2 engine with 381 bhp at 8200 rpm and similar torque ...
It was a proof of concept and an engineering tour de force ... tactile, characterful .. and re-setting the Worlds expectation of what a racing car should be ... GT3 Cup / GT3R / GT3RS / RSR / etc.
This was 20 years ago !
2.7RS + 20 years = 964RS + 993RS : 993RS + 5 years = 996 GT3 : 996GT3 + 20 years = 992 GT3.
And we are still comparing the 996GT3 on equal terms to cars that are only a few years old !
The only thing we can say about the new cars is that the many versions are hair splitting in their differences, faster (too fast ?), arguably less involving for the aspiring skilled driver rather than "pilot", are more likely to get you into trouble with the law, and are built to encourage dissatisfaction the moment the next model arrives. Where is the class in this ?
The 996GT3 Gen1 was truly in class of it's own, just like the 2.7RS and arguably the 964RS (... even more so than the 993RS) IMHO.
Please don't pick me up on minor numerical differences ... this is all from memory !
The 996 Gen1 GT3 was the proof of the water cooling of the Mezger engine. (The 959 had water cooled cylinder heads).
We all know that the non GT water cooled engine was to become a real mess.
The Gen1 GT3 3.6 produced 360bhp at 7600 rpm and 273 ft lbs torque at 5300 ?
The 993RS maxed out at 300 bhp at 6800 ? rpm and 250 ft lbs torque at the same 5300 ??
The Gen1 Gt3 was reaching 100 mph in under 10 seconds and reached more then 190mph ... the 993RS was probably 12 seconds to 100 and reached 178 ??
And the Gen1 set the scene for the substantially lightened Gen2 engine with 381 bhp at 8200 rpm and similar torque ...
It was a proof of concept and an engineering tour de force ... tactile, characterful .. and re-setting the Worlds expectation of what a racing car should be ... GT3 Cup / GT3R / GT3RS / RSR / etc.
This was 20 years ago !
2.7RS + 20 years = 964RS + 993RS : 993RS + 5 years = 996 GT3 : 996GT3 + 20 years = 992 GT3.
And we are still comparing the 996GT3 on equal terms to cars that are only a few years old !
The only thing we can say about the new cars is that the many versions are hair splitting in their differences, faster (too fast ?), arguably less involving for the aspiring skilled driver rather than "pilot", are more likely to get you into trouble with the law, and are built to encourage dissatisfaction the moment the next model arrives. Where is the class in this ?
The 996GT3 Gen1 was truly in class of it's own, just like the 2.7RS and arguably the 964RS (... even more so than the 993RS) IMHO.
Edited by ChrisW. on Wednesday 4th March 20:43
isaldiri said:
The gt1 race car was water-cooled I believe.
That would be logical ... there were 993 based and 996 based variants of the GT1 ... built '96 and '97 ...I had never considered owning one of those ... though I did own and drive a 2002 GT3R ALMS car
A long time ago when they could be had for £120k I did think about a friends 959, but the prospective cost of maintenance and possible repair leant me towards the simple but effective 964RS ...
I can offer a perspective from long term ownership (15+ years) of my mk1 996. And with owning more modern Porsche. Many other cars have come and gone but the GT3 has remained. A keeper.
In more modern Porsche, the speed is more apparent more accessible. With the right trick exhaust, the sound in the more modern cars is louder, more attention seeking. I'm thinking now of my 981 Spyder - which sounds lovely. But somehow a bit contrived.
The GT3 engine feels organic. Less of a "product", more of a statement a reference point for how good cars can be if a manufacturer has the wherewithall and go ahead to produce it. Everything about the car runs true to this thought.
The GT3 demands and gets better the more time and effort you invest in it. As something to drive for 6-12 months and then move on, it may not be the perfect choice. But if you want to take the time to learn how to drive it properly, you realise there are so many layers to peel off and revel in. It gets under your skin. It makes you a better driver. They way it sounds, how you use its weight transfer, the sensation of that weight transfer, it's fully transparent you feel it working. The way you lean on it in corners, steer it on the throttle, - the way you trail brake You do that and those moments get locked in your memory, you think " by God this is good". It feels like no other car I've driven. At idle (let alone at 7k+) nothing else sounds like it. Makes you feel like a hero.
Not overpowered, nor under - just right. Other cars simply feel blunt. Quicker maybe, more immediately reveal themselves, feel less nuanced. Rare is the car that feels more tactile,adjustable, intimate.
Its hard to explain. You feel somehow that the general motoring world does not know about these cars and the magic that lurks within. Doesn't know what you know. Maybe can't be conveyed until someone is inclined to join in.
In more modern Porsche, the speed is more apparent more accessible. With the right trick exhaust, the sound in the more modern cars is louder, more attention seeking. I'm thinking now of my 981 Spyder - which sounds lovely. But somehow a bit contrived.
The GT3 engine feels organic. Less of a "product", more of a statement a reference point for how good cars can be if a manufacturer has the wherewithall and go ahead to produce it. Everything about the car runs true to this thought.
The GT3 demands and gets better the more time and effort you invest in it. As something to drive for 6-12 months and then move on, it may not be the perfect choice. But if you want to take the time to learn how to drive it properly, you realise there are so many layers to peel off and revel in. It gets under your skin. It makes you a better driver. They way it sounds, how you use its weight transfer, the sensation of that weight transfer, it's fully transparent you feel it working. The way you lean on it in corners, steer it on the throttle, - the way you trail brake You do that and those moments get locked in your memory, you think " by God this is good". It feels like no other car I've driven. At idle (let alone at 7k+) nothing else sounds like it. Makes you feel like a hero.
Not overpowered, nor under - just right. Other cars simply feel blunt. Quicker maybe, more immediately reveal themselves, feel less nuanced. Rare is the car that feels more tactile,adjustable, intimate.
Its hard to explain. You feel somehow that the general motoring world does not know about these cars and the magic that lurks within. Doesn't know what you know. Maybe can't be conveyed until someone is inclined to join in.
Edited by Singh911 on Wednesday 4th March 23:48
Edited by Singh911 on Thursday 5th March 00:36
I love my 996.2 - I've had 2, both comforts with buckets.
Black one was on refurbed OE dampers current is modified with RSS bits, cup diff and Ohlins R/T. On a big track they're wonderful things and if you're not a douche fine in the wet as well.
My old man had a 997.2 Clubbie with Surface transforms and a 964 RS the old 996 really feels the sweet spot between the two. And whats more it'll knock out 35mpg on the jaunt to Spa or the Ring - what more do you want.
Yeah so like LaSource I am a massive 996 GT3 fan.
Black one was on refurbed OE dampers current is modified with RSS bits, cup diff and Ohlins R/T. On a big track they're wonderful things and if you're not a douche fine in the wet as well.
My old man had a 997.2 Clubbie with Surface transforms and a 964 RS the old 996 really feels the sweet spot between the two. And whats more it'll knock out 35mpg on the jaunt to Spa or the Ring - what more do you want.
Yeah so like LaSource I am a massive 996 GT3 fan.
Sandy59 said:
I did try to post a couple but keep getting a 403 FORBIDDEN message on one browser, and 'iFrame loading' on another for some reason 
Morning Sandy, I hope you’re well ?Host your images here : https://imgur.com/
Press the New Post tab. Hit the browse tab. Find the image you wish to upload and press the open tab.
The image will take a couple of seconds to upload. When it's completed, hover your cursor over the image and in the top right hand corner it will bring up a small downward facing arrow. Hover the the cursor over this and it will bring up a Get share links tab. Click on this and then copy the BBCode (forums) link and paste it into your post on here.
Singh911 said:
I can offer a perspective from long term ownership (15+ years) of my mk1 996. And with owning more modern Porsche. Many other cars have come and gone but the GT3 has remained. A keeper.
In more modern Porsche, the speed is more apparent more accessible. With the right trick exhaust, the sound in the more modern cars is louder, more attention seeking. I'm thinking now of my 981 Spyder - which sounds lovely. But somehow a bit contrived.
The GT3 engine feels organic. Less of a "product", more of a statement a reference point for how good cars can be if a manufacturer has the wherewithall and go ahead to produce it. Everything about the car runs true to this thought.
The GT3 demands and gets better the more time and effort you invest in it. As something to drive for 6-12 months and then move on, it may not be the perfect choice. But if you want to take the time to learn how to drive it properly, you realise there are so many layers to peel off and revel in. It gets under your skin. It makes you a better driver. They way it sounds, how you use its weight transfer, the sensation of that weight transfer, it's fully transparent you feel it working. The way you lean on it in corners, steer it on the throttle, - the way you trail brake You do that and those moments get locked in your memory, you think " by God this is good". It feels like no other car I've driven. At idle (let alone at 7k+) nothing else sounds like it. Makes you feel like a hero.
Not overpowered, nor under - just right. Other cars simply feel blunt. Quicker maybe, more immediately reveal themselves, feel less nuanced. Rare is the car that feels more tactile,adjustable, intimate.
Its hard to explain. You feel somehow that the general motoring world does not know about these cars and the magic that lurks within. Doesn't know what you know. Maybe can't be conveyed until someone is inclined to join in.
May i ask if your car has the Manthey k400?In more modern Porsche, the speed is more apparent more accessible. With the right trick exhaust, the sound in the more modern cars is louder, more attention seeking. I'm thinking now of my 981 Spyder - which sounds lovely. But somehow a bit contrived.
The GT3 engine feels organic. Less of a "product", more of a statement a reference point for how good cars can be if a manufacturer has the wherewithall and go ahead to produce it. Everything about the car runs true to this thought.
The GT3 demands and gets better the more time and effort you invest in it. As something to drive for 6-12 months and then move on, it may not be the perfect choice. But if you want to take the time to learn how to drive it properly, you realise there are so many layers to peel off and revel in. It gets under your skin. It makes you a better driver. They way it sounds, how you use its weight transfer, the sensation of that weight transfer, it's fully transparent you feel it working. The way you lean on it in corners, steer it on the throttle, - the way you trail brake You do that and those moments get locked in your memory, you think " by God this is good". It feels like no other car I've driven. At idle (let alone at 7k+) nothing else sounds like it. Makes you feel like a hero.
Not overpowered, nor under - just right. Other cars simply feel blunt. Quicker maybe, more immediately reveal themselves, feel less nuanced. Rare is the car that feels more tactile,adjustable, intimate.
Its hard to explain. You feel somehow that the general motoring world does not know about these cars and the magic that lurks within. Doesn't know what you know. Maybe can't be conveyed until someone is inclined to join in.
Edited by Singh911 on Wednesday 4th March 23:48
Edited by Singh911 on Thursday 5th March 00:36
anonymous said:
[redacted]
none of that makes sense,!what I am asking you is, are you on board with fastest is changing at 9k like most people say and will die for on a forum or will the car actually be faster changing at 8300rpm.
I want it on record which you think.
A simple yes the cars will be fastest changing at 9k will be ample at this time. Or no changing gear early is faster.
It's a very simple question to answer.
Fanboy911 said:
May i ask if your car has the Manthey k400?
If I may but in...I had set my heart on a LHD... Thus I searched in Europe...
When looking for my 996.1 I tried first a one owner from new SY CS on about 30k in Geneva. History folder about 2" thick with receipts from dealers in Germany and Switzerland, right down to the expanding rivets for the front splitter and wiper blades. Tight as a drum, it rode beautifully on a set of fresh dampers. It was tactile and engaging, but to be perfectly honest, the engine while good, did leave me a bit cold. I am also a massive E46 M3 fanboy, and I have to say, the standard Mezger (if you can call something as special as a Mezger, standard) kind of lacked the fireworks found in a good S54B32.
Then I travelled to NW Germany to drive my current car. Oh my God! The minute the Mezger hit 5750 and the VarioCam ramped up, and CF airbox began to sing I knew I had to buy it. DId not even haggle. Paid the full asking there and then, in a lay bay off a rural road next to Stade. There is something super addictive about the manic nature of the engine which is imbued by the the CF airbox, exhaust and a remap.
A K400 conversion makes an already great car an amazing one...
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