997 GTS manual... would you?
Discussion
Cheib said:
So said:
Desert Dragon said:
Non CL model must be worth more?!
If you mean on the GTS then no. People want CLs and alcantara; those cars without tend to stick around.The things people want in a GTS are
Manual
Alcantara
Leather Dash
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Not many have all of that. You also want the Short Shift (SSK) but that can be retrofitted,
JZM car doesn’t have Sports Chrono and has the plastic dash, Without the former there’s no Sport button....that gives you a slightly sharper throttle response which I think is better for heel and toe. Maybe it’s just me but I’d want those for that money.
Edited by Cheib on Sunday 14th June 09:02
Cheib said:
So said:
Desert Dragon said:
Non CL model must be worth more?!
If you mean on the GTS then no. People want CLs and alcantara; those cars without tend to stick around.The things people want in a GTS are
Manual
Alcantara
Leather Dash
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Not many have all of that. You also want the Short Shift (SSK) but that can be retrofitted,
JZM car doesn’t have Sports Chrono and has the plastic dash, Without the former there’s no Sport button....that gives you a slightly sharper throttle response which I think is better for heel and toe. Maybe it’s just me but I’d want those for that money.
Edited by Cheib on Sunday 14th June 09:02
Alcantara
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Leather Dash
The last two are not essential IMHO.
Bose is a bit chavtastic; I turned the bass on mine right down to -6 when I had it in a 911, otherwise it had an unnatural booming Max Power bass. The standard Porsche kit is alright. Not the last word in hi-fi, but you're driving a sports car with a loud exhaust , not sitting feet up in the music room listening to Vivaldi.
Leather dash - when I first got my GTS I was delighted that I hadn't got the dreadful plastic dash that PH seemed to be obsessed with. Then I found out that mine has a plastic dash. I imagined that the "dreadful plastic dash" would be a cheap, hard plastic like in a Fiat. In fact it's soft touch like any other German car and more than luxurious enough for most people. I very much doubt that, outside of Porsche forums, anyone has been bothered about a GTS not being covered in leather.
Agree. Thanks
The four essentials are as you set out. I can live with or without Bose or leather clad dash.
That’s the list, now to find the right one!
I’m indifferent to colour tbh, condition/history most important with spec as above
Thanks for all the contributions, this has been really helpful to clarify.
That ashgood 991.1 is really distracting though!!
Yup.
The things people want in a GTS are
Manual
Alcantara
Leather Dash
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Not many have all of that. You also want the Short Shift (SSK) but that can be retrofitted,
JZM car doesn’t have Sports Chrono and has the plastic dash, Without the former there’s no Sport button....that gives you a slightly sharper throttle response which I think is better for heel and toe. Maybe it’s just me but I’d want those for that money.
Manual
Alcantara
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Leather Dash
The last two are not essential IMHO.
Bose is a bit chavtastic; I turned the bass on mine right down to -6 when I had it in a 911, otherwise it had an unnatural booming Max Power bass. The standard Porsche kit is alright. Not the last word in hi-fi, but you're driving a sports car with a loud exhaust , not sitting feet up in the music room listening to Vivaldi.
Leather dash - when I first got my GTS I was delighted that I hadn't got the dreadful plastic dash that PH seemed to be obsessed with. Then I found out that mine has a plastic dash. I imagined that the "dreadful plastic dash" would be a cheap, hard plastic like in a Fiat. In fact it's soft touch like any other German car and more than luxurious enough for most people. I very much doubt that, outside of Porsche forums, anyone has been bothered about a GTS not being covered in leather.
The four essentials are as you set out. I can live with or without Bose or leather clad dash.
That’s the list, now to find the right one!
I’m indifferent to colour tbh, condition/history most important with spec as above
Thanks for all the contributions, this has been really helpful to clarify.
That ashgood 991.1 is really distracting though!!
So said:
Cheib said:
So said:
Desert Dragon said:
Non CL model must be worth more?!
If you mean on the GTS then no. People want CLs and alcantara; those cars without tend to stick around.The things people want in a GTS are
Manual
Alcantara
Leather Dash
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Not many have all of that. You also want the Short Shift (SSK) but that can be retrofitted,
JZM car doesn’t have Sports Chrono and has the plastic dash, Without the former there’s no Sport button....that gives you a slightly sharper throttle response which I think is better for heel and toe. Maybe it’s just me but I’d want those for that money.
Edited by Cheib on Sunday 14th June 09:02
Alcantara
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Leather Dash
The last two are not essential IMHO.
Bose is a bit chavtastic; I turned the bass on mine right down to -6 when I had it in a 911, otherwise it had an unnatural booming Max Power bass. The standard Porsche kit is alright. Not the last word in hi-fi, but you're driving a sports car with a loud exhaust , not sitting feet up in the music room listening to Vivaldi.
Leather dash - when I first got my GTS I was delighted that I hadn't got the dreadful plastic dash that PH seemed to be obsessed with. Then I found out that mine has a plastic dash. I imagined that the "dreadful plastic dash" would be a cheap, hard plastic like in a Fiat. In fact it's soft touch like any other German car and more than luxurious enough for most people. I very much doubt that, outside of Porsche forums, anyone has been bothered about a GTS not being covered in leather.
So said:
Manual
Alcantara
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Leather Dash
The last two are not essential IMHO.
Bose is a bit chavtastic; I turned the bass on mine right down to -6 when I had it in a 911, otherwise it had an unnatural booming Max Power bass. The standard Porsche kit is alright. Not the last word in hi-fi, but you're driving a sports car with a loud exhaust , not sitting feet up in the music room listening to Vivaldi.
Leather dash - when I first got my GTS I was delighted that I hadn't got the dreadful plastic dash that PH seemed to be obsessed with. Then I found out that mine has a plastic dash. I imagined that the "dreadful plastic dash" would be a cheap, hard plastic like in a Fiat. In fact it's soft touch like any other German car and more than luxurious enough for most people. I very much doubt that, outside of Porsche forums, anyone has been bothered about a GTS not being covered in leather.
The annoying thing with the dash is the S has a nicer dash standard !!,Alcantara
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Leather Dash
The last two are not essential IMHO.
Bose is a bit chavtastic; I turned the bass on mine right down to -6 when I had it in a 911, otherwise it had an unnatural booming Max Power bass. The standard Porsche kit is alright. Not the last word in hi-fi, but you're driving a sports car with a loud exhaust , not sitting feet up in the music room listening to Vivaldi.
Leather dash - when I first got my GTS I was delighted that I hadn't got the dreadful plastic dash that PH seemed to be obsessed with. Then I found out that mine has a plastic dash. I imagined that the "dreadful plastic dash" would be a cheap, hard plastic like in a Fiat. In fact it's soft touch like any other German car and more than luxurious enough for most people. I very much doubt that, outside of Porsche forums, anyone has been bothered about a GTS not being covered in leather.
CL are an arse also for an after market wheel or home brake pad change.
You pay £25k for the engine alone, every thing else In The GTS imo is worse.
So it’s a very tough choice as values are way more important than the drive to 99% people in the UK.
A 911s with £20k mods would be a far better drive than a GTS and still come up £5k cheaper.
BUT the x51 engine is mega and that’s the rub here.
Last the price at £60k the GTS seems to sell and that seems right, over that they really don’t move as people who want a weekend car at circa £70k buy a 997.1 GT3 which then make GTS look very expensive.
The last point is a Cayman R is the same sort of thing but handles better and only cost £40k
So while the GTS has a place and is a great car the price for me when you look at the 997.2 S the Cayman R and the 997.1 GT3 the GTS price has to be under £60k to make sense.
I cannot remember the last time a GTS in Manual has come for sale with the full alcantara pack, and for me the GTS has to have that to justify the price.
But also finding a mint non black 997.2 C2s sub 30k milles is hard, been looking for 2 years but the odd one which comes up sells fast.
As I mod for me a 997.2 S modded would bring more smiles for miles.
But I would buy a proper speced 997.2 GTS at £60k.
MC99 said:
Cheib said:
So said:
Desert Dragon said:
Non CL model must be worth more?!
If you mean on the GTS then no. People want CLs and alcantara; those cars without tend to stick around.The things people want in a GTS are
Manual
Alcantara
Leather Dash
Sports Chrono
CL’s
Bose
Not many have all of that. You also want the Short Shift (SSK) but that can be retrofitted,
JZM car doesn’t have Sports Chrono and has the plastic dash, Without the former there’s no Sport button....that gives you a slightly sharper throttle response which I think is better for heel and toe. Maybe it’s just me but I’d want those for that money.
ATM said:
I thought you can retro fit a switch which does sport on and off and therefore achieves the same end result but just missing that clock on the dash.
OPC will fit sports Chrono without the clock for circa £500. H&L is nicer and looser stability control (but still on) is nice. 
ATM said:
The amount of travel required to get some action is a bit much compared with what you might expect from a sports car. In sport mode you only need a little prod to get stomping.
So it just ends up like the PSE button then? Switch on the car, press the sports button and PSE button before you drive off as you wouldn't drive it with it switched off anyway 
Shjc2 said:
ATM said:
The amount of travel required to get some action is a bit much compared with what you might expect from a sports car. In sport mode you only need a little prod to get stomping.
So it just ends up like the PSE button then? Switch on the car, press the sports button and PSE button before you drive off as you wouldn't drive it with it switched off anyway LaurasOtherHalf said:
I hate to reduce a thread to discussing prices (knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing etc) but what these fetch is nuts! I remember them sitting unsold and at my OPC and being offered a pre-registered one for somewhere around £60k, practically brand new.
A £15-20k premium for a trim level with pain in the arse wheels is nuts!
I bought a brand new one from stock back in the day and was able to play a few dealers off against each other to drive a good discount. At the time they were struggling to shift what looked like a run out model and I’m surprised to see how strong they are on the used market, A £15-20k premium for a trim level with pain in the arse wheels is nuts!
That said, it probably had the best steering of any 911 I’ve owned and I found it more involving than the 991S I replaced it with, though that could be more to do with PDK. I think it’s a great weekend car and clearly the market sees something in them, if the OP fancies one I think the answer to his question is yes.
Shjc2 said:
ATM said:
The amount of travel required to get some action is a bit much compared with what you might expect from a sports car. In sport mode you only need a little prod to get stomping.
So it just ends up like the PSE button then? Switch on the car, press the sports button and PSE button before you drive off as you wouldn't drive it with it switched off anyway Then you are good to go. I do that every single time i get in the car
woollyjoe said:
The answer is yes, all 997.2 manuals are amazing fun and very usable on the road. This was the last pure made Porsche before the group interfered on the 991. Steering namely the best difference.
The price is a whole different question. I don’t think they were ever worth the premium when driven. The wider rear didn’t help the car, and the extra power arrives at the last few hundred revs, meaning it was rarely felt.
Yes they are better, but typically £20k better than a C2S manual? Not for me. I didn’t feel the difference almost all the time and opted for a C2S Manual.
the GTS is worth it at a price, as 2 have sold this week then people agree, you are paying for the x51 kit on that engine.The price is a whole different question. I don’t think they were ever worth the premium when driven. The wider rear didn’t help the car, and the extra power arrives at the last few hundred revs, meaning it was rarely felt.
Yes they are better, but typically £20k better than a C2S manual? Not for me. I didn’t feel the difference almost all the time and opted for a C2S Manual.
X51 makes the car, I had it in my 991.1 GTS what an amazing engine and paired with shorter ratio's than a GT3 or a GT4 a bloody good combo.
As a road car VS a 997 GT3 it wins hands down due that and VS a GT4.
I would pay 10k more for a GTS but maybe not £20k, as £10k spent on a C2S would be sweet and you get the nice dash standard ona C2S so no dicking about waiting for a GTS in a nice spec, I have waited 3+ years, none have come up in GTS spec, people seem to keep them now. ALL the cars for sale have been plastic fantanstic. And to that I would rather a C2S with low miles at £45k with a set of wheels and shocks.
Again though a C2S with 30k miles is a rare fine as I don't like black and most seem to be black !
Cheib said:
Shjc2 said:
ATM said:
The amount of travel required to get some action is a bit much compared with what you might expect from a sports car. In sport mode you only need a little prod to get stomping.
So it just ends up like the PSE button then? Switch on the car, press the sports button and PSE button before you drive off as you wouldn't drive it with it switched off anyway Then you are good to go. I do that every single time i get in the car
I always turn start/stop off, PSE on and sports PASM on, but without sport on as sadly I have one of those dodgy 3 litre twin turbo engines and you get too many farts on the overrun for any local driving. Thankfully Akrapovic have helped it sound a good bit closer to a naturally aspirated engine and a bit less asthmatic chasing the red line.
Grantstown said:
Cheib said:
Shjc2 said:
ATM said:
The amount of travel required to get some action is a bit much compared with what you might expect from a sports car. In sport mode you only need a little prod to get stomping.
So it just ends up like the PSE button then? Switch on the car, press the sports button and PSE button before you drive off as you wouldn't drive it with it switched off anyway Then you are good to go. I do that every single time i get in the car
I always turn start/stop off, PSE on and sports PASM on, but without sport on as sadly I have one of those dodgy 3 litre twin turbo engines and you get too many farts on the overrun for any local driving. Thankfully Akrapovic have helped it sound a good bit closer to a naturally aspirated engine and a bit less asthmatic chasing the red line.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
CLs seem to be here to stay in the 911 world based on 997 onwards GTS models (997.2, 991.1, 991.2 and probably 992s) commonly fitted with them not to mention all GT products. And there are relatively easy solutions that address CL emergency concerns. Don't disagree on the depreciation aspect but then all cars that start with a higher value and pile on miles depreciate more £ than a car that starts at a lower £ so not sure this is unique issue as % wise the impact is the same.
In saying all that a 997.2 C2S manual coupe with the right spec is an awesome car and very good value alternative to a GTS, and therefore may be a better car for many / most people.
woollyjoe said:
The price is a whole different question. I don’t think they were ever worth the premium when driven. The wider rear didn’t help the car, and the extra power arrives at the last few hundred revs, meaning it was rarely felt.
Yes they are better, but typically £20k better than a C2S manual? Not for me. I didn’t feel the difference almost all the time and opted for a C2S Manual.
Agree with this. I had a 997 GTS for some years and in the end it didn't really excite. Unlike other Porsches I've owned, when I sold it I didn't miss it. I think light-weight aluminium doors and a LSD would have made a difference (like my Cayman R had), and a narrow body would have saved weight too. Mine had leather dash and whatnot which made it OK inside, but there's more to driving a 911 than that.Yes they are better, but typically £20k better than a C2S manual? Not for me. I didn’t feel the difference almost all the time and opted for a C2S Manual.
An acquaintance of mine has recently sold his (I think it's the one at RPM Technik) and when I asked him why (I hadn't ever mentioned my reasons for selling mine), he said he bought it to replace his Cayman R on the strength of the plaudits the 997 GTS gets and it never really delivered. He's part-exed it for a 991.1 GTS which he says feels more like the grown up Cayman R he was looking for.
Lungauer said:
Agree with this. I had a 997 GTS for some years and in the end it didn't really excite. Unlike other Porsches I've owned, when I sold it I didn't miss it. I think light-weight aluminium doors and a LSD would have made a difference (like my Cayman R had), and a narrow body would have saved weight too. Mine had leather dash and whatnot which made it OK inside, but there's more to driving a 911 than that.
An acquaintance of mine has recently sold his (I think it's the one at RPM Technik) and when I asked him why (I hadn't ever mentioned my reasons for selling mine), he said he bought it to replace his Cayman R on the strength of the plaudits the 997 GTS gets and it never really delivered. He's part-exed it for a 991.1 GTS which he says feels more like the grown up Cayman R he was looking for.
Can’t imagine a C2S would have ticked the box either if that’s how you both felt about the GTS (and I get it). Non GT3 997 is not for everyone!An acquaintance of mine has recently sold his (I think it's the one at RPM Technik) and when I asked him why (I hadn't ever mentioned my reasons for selling mine), he said he bought it to replace his Cayman R on the strength of the plaudits the 997 GTS gets and it never really delivered. He's part-exed it for a 991.1 GTS which he says feels more like the grown up Cayman R he was looking for.
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