Any love for the 997 GTS?

[DennyHulme]

P.Griffin said:

This one (of 3 advertised) has been on since July 2023, so I'm not sure people are convinced these are worth what's being asked.

The answer to your question, "why would you NOT want one", may well be that I do want one, but I don't believe the premium being asked is reasonable. AT's price tracker will give us the answers in the coming months. Will be interesting to see what happens.

Edited by P.Griffin on Wednesday 17th January 12:57

there have been a few come up, nice ones sell fast so don't get noticed, no one really wants full on dog knob red inside, That's why it's still for sale.

The new Blue one has only just come for sale but again no GTS pack so for £85k you have to have a plastic dash.
But PARAGON just sold another GTS and are well regarded so they must think £85k is right due to low miles.

I have been looking for 10 years for the right car, but with a pool of only 90 UK 2wd manual cars, and then you really want the GTS pack imo, I would say their are 30 odd cars max out there and those sell within the month.

The new Blue one is nice but I would not buy it myself without the GTS pack. It's sort of passable on a £50k Cayman R to have plastic inside, but you get to £85k and you really do get fussy finding the right car.

Nice spec cars sell and go unnoticed , if some people here don't want to pay £85k for one then it's not the right model for them, it's that simple.

Some people pay £600k for older 911's which cost £8k new.

Edited by DennyHulme on Wednesday 17th January 17:42

[Louis Balfour]

said:

The new Blue one has only just come for sale but again no GTS pack so for £85k you have to have a plastic dash.

There's not a lot wrong with the "plastic dash". It's not plastic as in hard plastic, it's the soft touch stuff that lines most German cars. I didn't realise mine was plastic until after I'd had the car for twelve months. It is an absolute non-issue.

[DennyHulme]

Slippydiff said:

You’ll be aware I’ve had a couple of Gen 1 997 GT3’s, so I may be better able to make comparisons between them and a 997.2 GTS than you...

No matter, if I considered a 997.2 GTS a better everyday road car than a 997.1 GT3, why wouldn’t I say so ?

I have no skin in the game, unlike you with the Cayman R, the GT4, the 991 GT3 and all the other cars that were “The best cars on the planet” whilst you owned them, but then they all suddenly fell from grace the second you’d sold them and bought your latest “Best car on the planet” ... and so it went on, and so it goes on still ...

Of course when I owned 997.1 GT3’s, there were no Cars and Coffee events, so I did what I’ve always done. Just drive them hard on proper roads.
And the gear ratios weren’t an issue then, and I suspect for those that own them and drive them hard on the road and track now, they’re still not

I’ve not followed your build (I rarely, if ever follow anything you do David, otherwise I’d have had a career in hairdressing and a plethora of hairdressers cars as a result ...)
But fair play to you for ditching them all and finally buying a real 911.

On the basis you’ve fitted Ohlins R&T with custom spring rates to your GTS. Come to think of it, I’m not sure anyone’s ever fitted custom spring rates to Ohlins dampers before on PH or 911 UK have they ....

I’m guessing it’s actually a case of you’ve been following myposts on 911UK on that very same topic ...


Anyway, thanks for popping in, always good to have a catch up

P.S They do say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Consider me flattered

all i will say is you slagged off Ohlins R&T for at least 10+years on here then bought some, I did smile to myself when I noted that.

I also review all my cars within a month of owning them, that's what upsets people as my reviews are quite harsh, so to say the cars I own are all the best ever is daft, I slag most of the ones I have owned off !! So odd comment. regarding that. I loved the Cayman R's , the 997 GTS is the same era but a much better engine so stands to reason I was going to like it, just took a long time to find the right one, and have £80k in cash to jump on it without selling other stuff 1st..

Porsche imo don't make that many great cars really. I avoided the 981 range they are so lifeless, and my 991.1 GTS lasted a month.
I hated the 996 GT3, and the 981 GT4 was dull. I reviewed all these cars at the times of owning ship NOT after I sold them.
So how are all these cars I gave poor reviews about "“The best cars on the planet" ? Odd :-)

What's odd on PH is the "look at me" people and values people of which there are many now, add in the flippers and the corrupt OPC's and Porsche ownership has gone down hill pretty fast the last 10 years. They do though every 6 or 7 years pop out a nice car worth owning.

2010 era was great, 991.2 GT3 era good. 992 GT3 for track is a big step up. but they make 40+ models a year none of which interest me at all.

Way too much hype on GT cars and old RS models. I test drove a 964 RS thought it was st, bought a BMW CSL insted. Now people pay £300k for a 964 RS which imo still drives st ! I find it all very odd. It's no wonder 997 GT3's have 15 owners, hype sells them people buy them and hate driving them lol, I have known people back in the day to buy a GT3 and take it back the same day ! As for the new GT4 RS and Spyder RS who the **** wants these cars ? I could not think of anything worse to own myself, let alone pay £70k overs to get in one !!

[DennyHulme]

Louis Balfour said:

There's not a lot wrong with the "plastic dash". It's not plastic as in hard plastic, it's the soft touch stuff that lines most German cars. I didn't realise mine was plastic until after I'd had the car for twelve months. It is an absolute non-issue.

If you like it that's great. I wanted the GTS pack in mine, it helps it be a GTS imo. and lets not forget for £20k less the 997.2 C2S came with leather standard !! That for me is a piss take, you buy any 997.2 C2S and you got leather free, The GTS came with plastic fantastic dash, which actually weighs more than the leather one ! very few people wanted to then pay £3k on top on the GTS price.

It's not just the leather dash, the bottom half is all Alcantara, And the doors are fully trimmed in Alcantara and stitched, it really is very nice inside a GTS speced GTS.

[Louis Balfour]

DennyHulme said:

Louis Balfour said:

There's not a lot wrong with the "plastic dash". It's not plastic as in hard plastic, it's the soft touch stuff that lines most German cars. I didn't realise mine was plastic until after I'd had the car for twelve months. It is an absolute non-issue.

If you like it that's great. I wanted the GTS pack in mine, it helps it be a GTS imo. and lets not forget for £20k less the 997.2 C2S came with leather standard !! That for me is a piss take, you buy any 997.2 C2S and you got leather free, The GTS came with plastic fantastic dash, which actually weighs more than the leather one ! very few people wanted to then pay £3k on top on the GTS price.

It's not just the leather dash, the bottom half is all Alcantara, And the doors are fully trimmed in Alcantara and stitched, it really is very nice inside a GTS speced GTS.

I never once thought my life would be better with an alcantara glove box. The seats were leather and alcantara. There was nothing cheap feeling about the interior of mine, at all.

The 997 GTS was about having a bunch of trick stuff on a superb platform at a very competitive price. It was designed to keep sales going despite economically depressed times and the imminent new model. It worked.

I can fully understand why people would not have wanted to pay for extra leather or, for that matter, anything. It would have defeated the object in some ways.

If anyone REALLY wants a 997 GTS, plastic dash and / or PDK is not going to spoil the experience. I have, however, seen comments in other threads along the lines of "if only I could find [insert unobtanium spec here] I would buy one" I suspect because, when it comes down to it, some people like the idea of one more than they are prepared to actually buy one.

[LemonTart]

Hi Denny

Have you still got your 987.2 Spyder? I seem to remember you were a fan of that with different headers and exhaust.

[NRG1976]

Saw the number plate “997 GTS” sold for nearly £20k

[Slippydiff]

DennyHulme said:

all i will say is you slagged off Ohlins R&T for at least 10+years on here then bought some, I did smile to myself when I noted that.

Same old, same old, David.

How quickly the mask drops. This time within a day and less than 10 posts. From a seemingly reasonably rational individual, to the Mr Demon, 911 R, GT4 of old, all in the blink of an eye.

As per your usual modus operandi, you've done your best to twist what I said (a bit like prefacing your comments about me saying the GTS would make a better road car than a 997.1 GT3 on 911UK) by stating you read it "with a smile on your face".
I know you think that making your pathetic, snide comments somehow makes you look good and also validates your misguided drivel. Rest assured, it doesn't.


If you look what I actually said (rather than putting your spin on what I said) about the R &T range of dampers (good try with the over ten year line btw) I've consistently (not a word you're familiar with I know) stated they are a "budget" damper by Ohlins standards. And that those that bought them when they were first released, expecting TTX levels of damping quality, because they had Ohlins stickers on them and were anodised gold, would be disappointed.

Because if you want the level of damping I experienced from Ohlins I fitted to the 996 GT3, you'd need to buy TTX's, which as you well know, are a very different price point to the R&T range.

Furthermore, I've consistently said that the R & T range was designed by Ohlins Sweden, developed by Ohlins development dept in Germany at the 'Ring (great if you live in Germany or drive to work on the 'Ring everyday) and that they were built in Japan. All of which is true.

Read that back, then read it back again, and again. None of it constitutes "slagging them off" as you put it. But as always, the inconvenient truth always gets in the way of your ill-informed propaganda doesn't it David ?

You appear to have re-joined PH for the what ? the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time now ?
I don't know why you left PH previously. One of your Elton John 'esque flounces ? A temporary (or permanent) ban for a forum transgression ? I'd not know, but rest assured, I care even less, because you have zero credibility around here, and anyone that's contributed to this forum over the past 5 years knows you're a troll, despite your many protestations to the contrary over the years.

I'm signing off from this thread, because with you gone from the forum for a decent amount of time, I came to realise I'd foolishly spent far too many hours at this very keyboard arguing pointlessly with a troll who enjoys his forum machinations more than he actually loves his cars.

Not anymore though, because you and your ilk aren't worth the time or energy.

[Louis Balfour]

NRG1976 said:

Saw the number plate “997 GTS” sold for nearly £20k

I heard that. Bonkers considering the value of them.

[GTRene]

Louis Balfour said:

NRG1976 said:

Saw the number plate “997 GTS” sold for nearly £20k

I heard that. Bonkers considering the value of them.

you can buy a nice car of that, nuts, ok cool when you have such car and complete that with that plate, then its a unique combo, but hey, then I want the plate with 997.2 GT2 RS

but I guess thats to long? so then 997 GT2 will be fine as well

[GT4RS]

Slippydiff said:

DennyHulme said:

all i will say is you slagged off Ohlins R&T for at least 10+years on here then bought some, I did smile to myself when I noted that.

Same old, same old, David.

How quickly the mask drops. This time within a day and less than 10 posts. From a seemingly reasonably rational individual, to the Mr Demon, 911 R, GT4 of old, all in the blink of an eye.

As per your usual modus operandi, you've done your best to twist what I said (a bit like prefacing your comments about me saying the GTS would make a better road car than a 997.1 GT3 on 911UK) by stating you read it "with a smile on your face".
I know you think that making your pathetic, snide comments somehow makes you look good and also validates your misguided drivel. Rest assured, it doesn't.


If you look what I actually said (rather than putting your spin on what I said) about the R &T range of dampers (good try with the over ten year line btw) I've consistently (not a word you're familiar with I know) stated they are a "budget" damper by Ohlins standards. And that those that bought them when they were first released, expecting TTX levels of damping quality, because they had Ohlins stickers on them and were anodised gold, would be disappointed.

Because if you want the level of damping I experienced from Ohlins I fitted to the 996 GT3, you'd need to buy TTX's, which as you well know, are a very different price point to the R&T range.

Furthermore, I've consistently said that the R & T range was designed by Ohlins Sweden, developed by Ohlins development dept in Germany at the 'Ring (great if you live in Germany or drive to work on the 'Ring everyday) and that they were built in Japan. All of which is true.

Read that back, then read it back again, and again. None of it constitutes "slagging them off" as you put it. But as always, the inconvenient truth always gets in the way of your ill-informed propaganda doesn't it David ?

You appear to have re-joined PH for the what ? the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time now ?
I don't know why you left PH previously. One of your Elton John 'esque flounces ? A temporary (or permanent) ban for a forum transgression ? I'd not know, but rest assured, I care even less, because you have zero credibility around here, and anyone that's contributed to this forum over the past 5 years knows you're a troll, despite your many protestations to the contrary over the years.

I'm signing off from this thread, because with you gone from the forum for a decent amount of time, I came to realise I'd foolishly spent far too many hours at this very keyboard arguing pointlessly with a troll who enjoys his forum machinations more than he actually loves his cars.

Not anymore though, because you and your ilk aren't worth the time or energy.

Good spot Slippydiff!

I believe he was booted off this forum not so long ago under a different name. Hopefully the mods keep a close eye on how he conducts himself.

Agree, he’s best avoided.

[Louis Balfour]

GTRene said:

Louis Balfour said:

NRG1976 said:

Saw the number plate “997 GTS” sold for nearly £20k

I heard that. Bonkers considering the value of them.

you can buy a nice car of that, nuts, ok cool when you have such car and complete that with that plate, then its a unique combo, but hey, then I want the plate with 997.2 GT2 RS

but I guess thats to long? so then 997 GT2 will be fine as well

You can change your name by deed poll for £9.99. Change your name to your car registration and have the perfect cherished plate!

[DennyHulme]

LemonTart said:

Hi Denny

Have you still got your 987.2 Spyder? I seem to remember you were a fan of that with different headers and exhaust.

It was my life keeper, but when this GTS came up in my perfect spec I sold it off book, I had it 11 years. I did not want to sell it but only need one 2010 era car and I always wanted a manual 997 GTS. 987 Spyder is a true classic, my slighty modded one was an amazing car and drive, I did a lot of great trips in the car and the memories will be with me forever.

[DennyHulme]

GT4RS said:

Good spot Slippydiff!

I believe he was booted off this forum not so long ago under a different name. Hopefully the mods keep a close eye on how he conducts himself.

Agree, he’s best avoided.

lol I posted on here because you asked who would buy one on these now at £85k over a GT3.

instead of a debate on how great the GTS is you get all personal, yawn. Do you even own a Sports Porsche atm ? you flipped the last one.

[P.Griffin]

Slippydiff said:

DennyHulme said:

all i will say is you slagged off Ohlins R&T for at least 10+years on here then bought some, I did smile to myself when I noted that.

Same old, same old, David.

How quickly the mask drops. This time within a day and less than 10 posts. From a seemingly reasonably rational individual, to the Mr Demon, 911 R, GT4 of old, all in the blink of an eye.

As per your usual modus operandi, you've done your best to twist what I said (a bit like prefacing your comments about me saying the GTS would make a better road car than a 997.1 GT3 on 911UK) by stating you read it "with a smile on your face".
I know you think that making your pathetic, snide comments somehow makes you look good and also validates your misguided drivel. Rest assured, it doesn't.


If you look what I actually said (rather than putting your spin on what I said) about the R &T range of dampers (good try with the over ten year line btw) I've consistently (not a word you're familiar with I know) stated they are a "budget" damper by Ohlins standards. And that those that bought them when they were first released, expecting TTX levels of damping quality, because they had Ohlins stickers on them and were anodised gold, would be disappointed.

Because if you want the level of damping I experienced from Ohlins I fitted to the 996 GT3, you'd need to buy TTX's, which as you well know, are a very different price point to the R&T range.

Furthermore, I've consistently said that the R & T range was designed by Ohlins Sweden, developed by Ohlins development dept in Germany at the 'Ring (great if you live in Germany or drive to work on the 'Ring everyday) and that they were built in Japan. All of which is true.

Read that back, then read it back again, and again. None of it constitutes "slagging them off" as you put it. But as always, the inconvenient truth always gets in the way of your ill-informed propaganda doesn't it David ?

You appear to have re-joined PH for the what ? the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time now ?
I don't know why you left PH previously. One of your Elton John 'esque flounces ? A temporary (or permanent) ban for a forum transgression ? I'd not know, but rest assured, I care even less, because you have zero credibility around here, and anyone that's contributed to this forum over the past 5 years knows you're a troll, despite your many protestations to the contrary over the years.

I'm signing off from this thread, because with you gone from the forum for a decent amount of time, I came to realise I'd foolishly spent far too many hours at this very keyboard arguing pointlessly with a troll who enjoys his forum machinations more than he actually loves his cars.

Not anymore though, because you and your ilk aren't worth the time or energy.

I have no idea about the history here, but it makes for entertaining reading.

Denny, it sounds like you know a thing or 2, but an M3 CSL (one of the worst gearboxes known to man) over a 964 RS....really? 981s lifeless, GT4s dull. You have some interesting views, but of course, you are entitled to them.

[Slippydiff]

P.Griffin said:

I have no idea about the history here, but it makes for entertaining reading.

Denny, it sounds like you know a thing or 2, but an M3 CSL (one of the worst gearboxes known to man) over a 964 RS....really? 981s lifeless, GT4s dull. You have some interesting views, but of course, you are entitled to them.

To the casual forum contributor, I've no doubt it does have some "entertainment" value. But dig a little deeper and you'll find "Denney" was a regular and much derided PH Porsche forum contributor for over ten years.

Denny, AKA "Mr Demon", "911R" and "GT4" to name but four of his PH usernames (and there are at least two others, and that alone should tell you that he's not a bona fide contributor) has a somewhat chequered history around these parts.

Do by all means feel free to do a search using those usernames, that's assuming his prior posts haven't been redacted or deleted altogether by the PH moderators.

Some (a few) consider him good entertainment, whereas the majority see him for what he really is, that being a troll who enjoys baiting all and sundry with his often rude, arrogant and opinionated verbal diarrhoea.

His constant trolling over a ten + year period has driven many very knowledgeable and well regarded individuals from these pages and over time created a very different "vibe" on the forum. He should accordingly be viewed with total distain and utter contempt.

He left these pages seemingly for good at least 12 months ago, whether he was banned by the mods (either temporarily or permanently) I'd not know, and I care even less.

But he's clearly decided to grace us with his unwelcome presence under yet another username, one assumes in an attempt to avoid his account being deleted by the PH moderators. As an aside, you or any anyone else can hit the "report" tab in any post on the PH forum, the moderators will then view the post and the thread it's posted in, and decide what, if any, action to take. I suspect "Denney" knows precisely what action they'd take if notified of his presence on this forum.

All I'd politely suggest is that you don't feed the troll, as it takes little or no encouragement for him to think his contributions are in some way valuable, and as we've seen on numerous occasions previously, the regularity of his posting snowballs, and then things tend to get really ugly round these parts.

[DennyHulme]

Slippydiff said:

To the casual forum contributor, I've no doubt it does have some "entertainment" value. But dig a little deeper and you'll find "Denney" was a regular and much derided PH Porsche forum contributor for over ten years.

Denny, AKA "Mr Demon", "911R" and "GT4" to name but four of his PH usernames (and there are at least two others, and that alone should tell you that he's not a bona fide contributor) has a somewhat chequered history around these parts.

Do by all means feel free to do a search using those usernames, that's assuming his prior posts haven't been redacted or deleted altogether by the PH moderators.

Some (a few) consider him good entertainment, whereas the majority see him for what he really is, that being a troll who enjoys baiting all and sundry with his often rude, arrogant and opinionated verbal diarrhoea.

His constant trolling over a ten + year period has driven many very knowledgeable and well regarded individuals from these pages and over time created a very different "vibe" on the forum. He should accordingly be viewed with total distain and utter contempt.

He left these pages seemingly for good at least 12 months ago, whether he was banned by the mods (either temporarily or permanently) I'd not know, and I care even less.

But he's clearly decided to grace us with his unwelcome presence under yet another username, one assumes in an attempt to avoid his account being deleted by the PH moderators. As an aside, you or any anyone else can hit the "report" tab in any post on the PH forum, the moderators will then view the post and the thread it's posted in, and decide what, if any, action to take. I suspect "Denney" knows precisely what action they'd take if notified of his presence on this forum.

All I'd politely suggest is that you don't feed the troll, as it takes little or no encouragement for him to think his contributions are in some way valuable, and as we've seen on numerous occasions previously, the regularity of his posting snowballs, and then things tend to get really ugly round these parts.

lol people def don't change their colours.

[GT4RS]

DennyHulme said:

GT4RS said:

Good spot Slippydiff!

I believe he was booted off this forum not so long ago under a different name. Hopefully the mods keep a close eye on how he conducts himself.

Agree, he’s best avoided.

lol I posted on here because you asked who would buy one on these now at £85k over a GT3.

instead of a debate on how great the GTS is you get all personal, yawn. Do you even own a Sports Porsche atm ? you flipped the last one.

Off you go again talking rubbish. It’s strange that you assume you know all about me, I have never met you!

Just to confirm for the avoidance of doubt, since the 991.2 4s and the 718 gt4 going, I haven’t bothered buying another Cayman or 911. Will I buy another this year, who knows. Unlike you with your 997 gts will waving I’m not made of money so need to buy carefully.

I’m sure the moods have you on their radar, people like you are best avoided in my opinion.

[GT4P]

One thing about Mr X is at least he owns and drives the cars he owns and has had at least 40++. He doesn’t go for deviated stitching and flipping he does keep the cars he thinks are good which by the way he is right about manual 9x7.2 models in his opinion, mine and many others and some of those even the main stream ones were built in very low numbers compared to subsequent models.
But one thing he needs to do is step back sometimes and just let others get on with it but then it shows a passion for his cars wether he is right or wrong and him and others shouldn’t get personal about it!

[Slippydiff]

GT4P said:

One thing about Mr X is at least he owns and drives the cars he owns and has had at least 40++. He doesn’t go for deviated stitching and flipping he does keep the cars he thinks are good which by the way he is right about manual 9x7.2 models in his opinion, mine and many others and some of those even the main stream ones were built in very low numbers compared to subsequent models.
But one thing he needs to do is step back sometimes and just let others get on with it but then it shows a passion for his cars wether he is right or wrong and him and others shouldn’t get personal about it!

Not flipping cars and not spec’ing deviated stitching doesn’t excuse his often atrocious behaviour on this forum over many years.

As for getting personal, this is the individual who’s accused me and other contributors of being alcoholics because we’ve posted late at night/ in the early hours. For the record, I’m tea-total...

The list of his transgressions goes on and on, and because of others tolerance towards him, he got away with it for many years, but not before having driven numerous individuals off the forum, because they were sick to the back teeth with his troll like behaviour.

I agree, he is clearly a genuine Porsche enthusiast, and he should be proud of it, but his over-bearing, rude, arrogant, sanctimonious, opinionated and bombastic posting style is not something he can be, or should be proud of, and neither should it be encouraged. Courtesy to others cost nothing.

If I’d not met David twice, I’d imagine him to be some kind of knuckle dragging Neanderthal, but the reality is so far from that, it almost beggars belief, because the alter-ego of the deeply unpleasant, and overbearing keyboard warrior we’ve had to tolerate on this forum over the past 10 + years, could not be a more mild-mannered, meek individual...
As the Yanks would say “Go figure”.