Any love for the 997 GTS?

[Zio Di Roma]

RichDS said:

No time for that and can’t afford a manual GTS!!

Given my requirements I reckon a better question is pdk GTS or tip 997 turbo!

PDK GTS

Cheib has basically paraphrased what I said. The manual is preferable TODAY but it wasn't when the cars were new, as far as most buyers were concerned. The PDK 'box was like a spaceship 'box when it first came out. It's really just that the manual has not dated, whereas the PDK has improved on subsequent cars.

There is nothing wrong with the PDK 'box though.

In the same way, there is nothing wrong with the standard dash. You could be forgiven for thinking, the way some people go on, that unless it's extended leather the car is basically scrap.

As is the way with this sort of thing, fetishization occurs for the Goldilocks spec. It doesn't make other examples worthless. If I were in the market for one today I would be reluctant to pay the extra for a manual.

[FriedMarsBar]

RichDS said:

Thoughts on the non paddle version of the pdk?
Note I have had a few pdk cars and not that bothered about manually shifting anyway if the car can make a half good job of it!

I've had a 2010 997 3.8S since August 20203 and I retrofitted a wheel with paddles but I have yet to use them in anger. I can't fault the PDK in terms of shifting and keeping the gearbox in the sweet spot however I guess Sports mode is more the key in this regard.

[Zio Di Roma]

FriedMarsBar said:

RichDS said:

Thoughts on the non paddle version of the pdk?
Note I have had a few pdk cars and not that bothered about manually shifting anyway if the car can make a half good job of it!

I've had a 2010 997 3.8S since August 20203 and I retrofitted a wheel with paddles but I have yet to use them in anger. I can't fault the PDK in terms of shifting and keeping the gearbox in the sweet spot however I guess Sports mode is more the key in this regard.

I had paddles on mine, as did 90% of other buyers I think. But on my 991s I had the buttons and preferred them.

That having been said, I found that with both cars the paddles / buttons were somewhat dopey and it was better to let the ‘box do its own thing.

[Slippydiff]

RichDS said:

Thoughts on the non paddle version of the pdk?
Note I have had a few pdk cars and not that bothered about manually shifting anyway if the car can make a half good job of it!

Two words : Utterly hopeless.

[Zio Di Roma]

Slippydiff said:

RichDS said:

Thoughts on the non paddle version of the pdk?
Note I have had a few pdk cars and not that bothered about manually shifting anyway if the car can make a half good job of it!

Two words : Utterly hopeless.

I liked them. It was handy being able to eat a burger, read a map and change gear with either button at the same time.

[Slippydiff]

Zio Di Roma said:

Slippydiff said:

RichDS said:

Thoughts on the non paddle version of the pdk?
Note I have had a few pdk cars and not that bothered about manually shifting anyway if the car can make a half good job of it!

Two words : Utterly hopeless.

I liked them. It was handy being able to eat a burger, read a map and change gear with either button at the same time.

Quite possibly, but as you never used them, you're probably not the best judge of them ...

Zio Di Roma said:

That having been said, I found that with both cars the paddles / buttons were somewhat dopey and it was better to let the ‘box do its own thing.

And the overriding reason you didn't use them ... ? Because they were hopeless, as indeed were the transmissions they were supposed to control.

[Zio Di Roma]

Slippydiff said:

Zio Di Roma said:

Slippydiff said:

RichDS said:

Thoughts on the non paddle version of the pdk?
Note I have had a few pdk cars and not that bothered about manually shifting anyway if the car can make a half good job of it!

Two words : Utterly hopeless.

I liked them. It was handy being able to eat a burger, read a map and change gear with either button at the same time.

Quite possibly, but as you never used them, you're probably not the best judge of them ...

Zio Di Roma said:

That having been said, I found that with both cars the paddles / buttons were somewhat dopey and it was better to let the ‘box do its own thing.

And the overriding reason you didn't use them ... ? Because they were hopeless, as indeed were the transmissions they were supposed to control.

You thought the PDK was hopeless when it came out? You were in a vanishingly small minority.

[Slippydiff]

Zio Di Roma said:

You thought the PDK was hopeless when it came out? You were in a vanishingly small minority.

Yes I did. A concept first used in a Group B Quattro rally car in the mid 80’s, and also in the 956 and 962 Group C cars, finally made it into a production Porsche over 20 years later …

Allegedly because Porsche had to make the gearbox able to reliably handle the torque the various flat 6 engines they produced.

I’d guess a Group B Quattro Sport and a Group C 962 had more torque than a 997.2 3.6 Carrera …

Strange it took them so long to finesse the PDK transmission, yet they produced the M96 and M97 3.6 and 3.8 engines with all their many and varied issues, for 10 years. So much for product development.

Was the PDK transmission better than the hopeless Tiptronic ‘boxes Porsche had foisted on Porsche owners for waaaay too long ? Undoubtedly. But that didn’t make them good, just better than their predecessors.

Your assumption they were good, because lots bought them, is somewhat wide of the mark.
Lots bought them because the Porsche 911 buying demographic was changing, and increasingly they were bought by individuals who bought the cars for their badge, not their driving dynamics.
Nothing wrong with that, but let’s not kid ourselves they were particularly good, especially when allied to those craptastic steering wheel buttons.

[Zio Di Roma]

Slippydiff said:

Zio Di Roma said:

You thought the PDK was hopeless when it came out? You were in a vanishingly small minority.

Yes I did. A concept first used in a Group B Quattro rally car in the mid 80’s, and also in the 956 and 962 Group C cars, finally made it into a production Porsche over 20 years later …

Allegedly because Porsche had to make the gearbox able to reliably handle the torque the various flat 6 engines they produced.

I’d guess a Group B Quattro Sport and a Group C 962 had more torque than a 997.2 3.6 Carrera …

Strange it took them so long to finesse the PDK transmission, yet they produced the M96 and M97 3.6 and 3.8 engines with all their many and varied issues, for 10 years. So much for product development.

Was the PDK transmission better than the hopeless Tiptronic ‘boxes Porsche had foisted on Porsche owners for waaaay too long ? Undoubtedly. But that didn’t make them good, just better than their predecessors.

Your assumption they were good, because lots bought them, is somewhat wide of the mark.
Lots bought them because the Porsche 911 buying demographic was changing, and increasingly they were bought by individuals who bought the cars for their badge, not their driving dynamics.
Nothing wrong with that, but let’s not kid ourselves they were particularly good, especially when allied to those craptastic steering wheel buttons.

I bought my first PDK because I really liked the gearbox.

What equivalent car, in your opinion, had a better non-manual box?

[KittyLitter]

As good as it gets? I'd say so.


Autofarm 997 GTS Signature Build

https://autofarm.co.uk/997-gts-signature-build/

[Slippydiff]

Zio Di Roma said:

I bought my first PDK because I really liked the gearbox.

What equivalent car, in your opinion, had a better non-manual box?

E92 M3 and Mk 2 (8J) Audi TTRS. Both nicer/more intuitive to use and and less “dim witted”, or as you put it “dopey” than the PDK in the 2008-2012 997.2.
E92 M3 further improved with revised software in the rare 4.4 litre engined GTS version.

[Zio Di Roma]

Slippydiff said:

Zio Di Roma said:

I bought my first PDK because I really liked the gearbox.

What equivalent car, in your opinion, had a better non-manual box?

E92 M3 and Mk 2 (8J) Audi TTRS. Both nicer/more intuitive to use and and less “dim witted”, or as you put it “dopey” than the PDK in the 2008-2012 997.2.
E92 M3 further improved with revised software in the rare 4.4 litre engined GTS version.

Ah, I said equivalent cars, which they weren't.

Anyway, I haven't the appetite for more of you abrasive opinion, so I am going to bow out.

[P.Griffin]

KittyLitter said:

As good as it gets? I'd say so.


Autofarm 997 GTS Signature Build

https://autofarm.co.uk/997-gts-signature-build/

Very nice indeed and truly useable and fun I would imagine. Given the number of upgrades, a standard 997 S might suffice as the donor. I'm guessing this isn't a cheap exercise.

[MDL111]

that does look very nice indeed

[MDL111]

anybody got a view on how much a color change and redoing the interior costs nowadays?
Might have to import my 996 to the UK as I am having trouble getting it through TÜV in Germany ....

[Koln-RS]

KittyLitter said:

As good as it gets? I'd say so.
Autofarm 997 GTS Signature Build
https://autofarm.co.uk/997-gts-signature-build/

Looks a bit ‘tarty’ to my tastes.

Some nice aspects, for sure, but makes me wonder why someone would carry out all that work on an original car.
Was it so significantly damaged at some point that the colour change and replacement parts justified the cost?

[RichDS]

Koln-RS said:

Looks a bit ‘tarty’ to my tastes.

Some nice aspects, for sure, but makes me wonder why someone would carry out all that work on an original car.
Was it so significantly damaged at some point that the colour change and replacement parts justified the cost?

Not really my cuppa either - I find any heritage type touches look a bit naff on anything post 993

Edited by RichDS on Wednesday 24th April 18:37

[KittyLitter]

Koln-RS said:

KittyLitter said:

As good as it gets? I'd say so.
Autofarm 997 GTS Signature Build
https://autofarm.co.uk/997-gts-signature-build/

Looks a bit ‘tarty’ to my tastes.

Some nice aspects, for sure, but makes me wonder why someone would carry out all that work on an original car.
Was it so significantly damaged at some point that the colour change and replacement parts justified the cost?

I saw the car when I was at AutoFarm and they said that the owner loved their 997 GTS so much and that they couldn't see any better Porsche for the money or the next few price brackets above - so they commissioned AutoFarm to do this refresh to give the user a sense of a new chapter in ownership. Not damage related, just love for the car related.

[Geneve]

KittyLitter said:

I saw the car when I was at AutoFarm and they said that the owner loved their 997 GTS so much and that they couldn't see any better Porsche for the money or the next few price brackets above - so they commissioned AutoFarm to do this refresh to give the user a sense of a new chapter in ownership.

……so much so that it’s now for sale ?

[KittyLitter]

Geneve said:

KittyLitter said:

I saw the car when I was at AutoFarm and they said that the owner loved their 997 GTS so much and that they couldn't see any better Porsche for the money or the next few price brackets above - so they commissioned AutoFarm to do this refresh to give the user a sense of a new chapter in ownership.

……so much so that it’s now for sale ?

It is not for sale. The web page is used to show AutoFarms prowess and the possibilities should someone be interested in doing something similar with theirs.