The Porsche GT allocation system...a good video view
Discussion
maz8062 said:
Bribes is one thing, but what I find odd is OPC’s selling secondhand Porsche’s above list. People will shout supply and demand dictates the market, but if they’re being sold higher than list surely the list price is artificially low, no?
Porsche deliberately underprice their GT cars new as being part of the branding filtering theme.F6C said:
gd said:
It feels wrong to hand over a lot of cash to someone working in a legitimate business in order to jump a queue that they are creating.
With respect, think you have that bit back to front. It’s the punters creating the queue. This all comes down to the punters. If they’re paying bribes, that’s down to the punters too.This is not equivalent to corruption in some countries where you’re forced to pay a bribe to, I don’t know, get building planning or a business contract because that’s the endemic culture where you live and you simply can’t get on with life if you don’t do it.
This is a totally discretionary purchase of a luxury good that nobody needs to make in order to go about their normal business. If punters wouldn’t bribe, there’d be no bribing. Not that I personally approve of how the dealers behave in this regard, but that’s by the by. If one wants to be cross with someone, that should be the bribe paying punters and the punters more broadly who are driving all of this.
Not sure why it upsets people though. If I wanted (say) a desirable Ferrari there would be zero chance that I would get one.
Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
av185 said:
Porsche deliberately underprice their GT cars new as being part of the branding filtering theme.
Agree it looks that way superficially. Under more scrutiny, not so sure. If the cars were more expensive, the whole thing might deflate. Demand is at least in part driven by perception of 'free motoring' or even a bit of profit. If the cars were more expensive and depreciated soon after purchase, suspect a lot of buyers would evaporate and suddenly the cars could look over priced.
Overall, think the line between under priced and over priced may be pretty fine.
On paper and compared to power outputs and cylinder counts etc of vaguely comparable cars from other brands don't think the GT models look deliberately underpriced.
Exactly this. Increase prices to the level seen on the continent (U.K. is a massive outlier here) and you already in a much better place. Increase supply by say 20-30% and all this ridiculous circus stops.
The U.K. is a standalone example here. A small island, with a small allocation and too many buyers. When I was denied a 991.2 GT3 I went to Europe, found a Touring at list, bought it and drove happily. Prices were higher than the U.K. but allocations not that hard to get for non RS cars which should be the ones hard to get. Not the entry level GT3.
And even on the RS I got contacted for one at list late in the cycle. Just goes to show. Prices, offer combination over here is just not right. And it’s not that in Europe there’s any brand dilution either...
The U.K. is a standalone example here. A small island, with a small allocation and too many buyers. When I was denied a 991.2 GT3 I went to Europe, found a Touring at list, bought it and drove happily. Prices were higher than the U.K. but allocations not that hard to get for non RS cars which should be the ones hard to get. Not the entry level GT3.
And even on the RS I got contacted for one at list late in the cycle. Just goes to show. Prices, offer combination over here is just not right. And it’s not that in Europe there’s any brand dilution either...
On the other hand maybe it just feeds the secondhand market ?
Yes you need to choose carefully, but I am really happy at having found a 991 GT3.2 from a private seller in the spec I want ... at £50k ? less that the latest 992GT3 with modest overs ?
Of course, I will grind my teeth when I take it into the OPC for service and to maintain it's extended warranty ...
And yes, for two months they did know that I was looking ... maybe I found the right car before they did.
Yes you need to choose carefully, but I am really happy at having found a 991 GT3.2 from a private seller in the spec I want ... at £50k ? less that the latest 992GT3 with modest overs ?
Of course, I will grind my teeth when I take it into the OPC for service and to maintain it's extended warranty ...
And yes, for two months they did know that I was looking ... maybe I found the right car before they did.
ChrisW. said:
On the other hand maybe it just feeds the secondhand market ?
Yes you need to choose carefully, but I am really happy at having found a 991 GT3.2 from a private seller in the spec I want ... at £50k ? less that the latest 992GT3 with modest overs ?
Of course, I will grind my teeth when I take it into the OPC for service and to maintain it's extended warranty ...
And yes, for two months they did know that I was looking ... maybe I found the right car before they did.
Give us a clue Chris.. Manual or PDK.? What colour. ? Clubsport or not ?Yes you need to choose carefully, but I am really happy at having found a 991 GT3.2 from a private seller in the spec I want ... at £50k ? less that the latest 992GT3 with modest overs ?
Of course, I will grind my teeth when I take it into the OPC for service and to maintain it's extended warranty ...
And yes, for two months they did know that I was looking ... maybe I found the right car before they did.
By way of example of how the customer relationship thing is changing and the industry sees online as the future, Volvo has just announced that its pure electric models will be available online only.
“Volvo Cars is fundamentally changing how and where to meet its customers, and will transform the traditional wholesale model by moving online and with strong customer relationships.”
“Volvo Cars is fundamentally changing how and where to meet its customers, and will transform the traditional wholesale model by moving online and with strong customer relationships.”
RDMcG said:
Not sure why it upsets people though. If I wanted (say) a desirable Ferrari there would be zero chance that I would get one.
Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
you can get them but it's going to cost you at least £100k depreciation on a Lusso or something as was the case with the Pista.Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
bribes are less common in the ferrari world but I know people who've wined and dined their dealers and given them Rolex's on their birthdays etc
WCZ said:
RDMcG said:
Not sure why it upsets people though. If I wanted (say) a desirable Ferrari there would be zero chance that I would get one.
Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
you can get them but it's going to cost you at least £100k depreciation on a Lusso or something as was the case with the Pista.Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
bribes are less common in the ferrari world but I know people who've wined and dined their dealers and given them Rolex's on their birthdays etc
It will happen to Porsche too. There’s talk of Porsche being floated as a separate company which makes total sense for VW...for that to happen they’ll want an impressive financial performance to launch the IPO i.e. sell lots of high end cars to boost profits and once it’s IPO’d they will crank up the volumes.
Edited by Cheib on Tuesday 2nd March 12:49
Cheib said:
WCZ said:
RDMcG said:
Not sure why it upsets people though. If I wanted (say) a desirable Ferrari there would be zero chance that I would get one.
Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
you can get them but it's going to cost you at least £100k depreciation on a Lusso or something as was the case with the Pista.Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
bribes are less common in the ferrari world but I know people who've wined and dined their dealers and given them Rolex's on their birthdays etc
It will happen to Porsche too. There’s talk of Porsche being floated as a separate company which makes total sense for VW...for that to happen they’ll want an impressive financial performance to launch the IPO i.e. sell lots of high end cars to boost profits and once it’s IPO’d they will crank up the volumes.
F6C said:
By way of example of how the customer relationship thing is changing and the industry sees online as the future, Volvo has just announced that its pure electric models will be available online only.
“Volvo Cars is fundamentally changing how and where to meet its customers, and will transform the traditional wholesale model by moving online and with strong customer relationships.”
In this scenario the specialist dealers could take on a very interesting role.“Volvo Cars is fundamentally changing how and where to meet its customers, and will transform the traditional wholesale model by moving online and with strong customer relationships.”
They could take back the Classics that the OPC's are "playing" at and without cost to Porsche, interface with the type of customer who cannot deal-online.
How are Tesla dealing with secondhand vehicles ? Let alone legacy / heritage vehicles ?
av185 said:
Nice to know you are clearly fawning over this classic verbal diahhrea spouted as fact from some sweaty overweight self important blokey with greasy hair which has been regurgitated at least a thousand times. Quite remarkable anyone actually managed to endure the whole clip think I managed around 7 or 8 mins had to turn off or I'd die of serious boredom and knowing he had actually robbed me of part of my life.
Best bit was when he sincerely says 'trust me'.
Perhaps Porsche should seriously consider employing him for his enviable business and marketing acumen in order to improve sales.
:
Thanks for posting RDMG btw ...it was mildly amusing!
Somebody asked why I don't post much in some of these threads. Here is your answer.Best bit was when he sincerely says 'trust me'.
Perhaps Porsche should seriously consider employing him for his enviable business and marketing acumen in order to improve sales.
:Thanks for posting RDMG btw ...it was mildly amusing!
Still, 8 minutes would mean you watched for more than average. So cheers.
Edited by jayemm89 on Saturday 6th March 23:38
ChrisW. said:
F6C said:
By way of example of how the customer relationship thing is changing and the industry sees online as the future, Volvo has just announced that its pure electric models will be available online only.
“Volvo Cars is fundamentally changing how and where to meet its customers, and will transform the traditional wholesale model by moving online and with strong customer relationships.”
In this scenario the specialist dealers could take on a very interesting role.“Volvo Cars is fundamentally changing how and where to meet its customers, and will transform the traditional wholesale model by moving online and with strong customer relationships.”
They could take back the Classics that the OPC's are "playing" at and without cost to Porsche, interface with the type of customer who cannot deal-online.
How are Tesla dealing with secondhand vehicles ? Let alone legacy / heritage vehicles ?
Look at European or US dealers they seem to be a lot more involved with the older cars.
Cheib said:
ChrisW. said:
F6C said:
By way of example of how the customer relationship thing is changing and the industry sees online as the future, Volvo has just announced that its pure electric models will be available online only.
“Volvo Cars is fundamentally changing how and where to meet its customers, and will transform the traditional wholesale model by moving online and with strong customer relationships.”
In this scenario the specialist dealers could take on a very interesting role.“Volvo Cars is fundamentally changing how and where to meet its customers, and will transform the traditional wholesale model by moving online and with strong customer relationships.”
They could take back the Classics that the OPC's are "playing" at and without cost to Porsche, interface with the type of customer who cannot deal-online.
How are Tesla dealing with secondhand vehicles ? Let alone legacy / heritage vehicles ?
Look at European or US dealers they seem to be a lot more involved with the older cars.
Tend to think its more a case of most OPCs don't want to be seen with 'outdated' stock and models coupled with the usual greater risk and comeback of selling older stuff.
Their primary aim is to shift new metal and current models used although several mainly larger franchises e.g. JCT have specialised in pushing the older 'collectable' models although this appears in part being more down to the individual preferences of the OPC car buyer rather than Company policy.
Their primary aim is to shift new metal and current models used although several mainly larger franchises e.g. JCT have specialised in pushing the older 'collectable' models although this appears in part being more down to the individual preferences of the OPC car buyer rather than Company policy.
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