9A1 engine into 996 Carrera (Jethro B)
Discussion
Jethro B said:
And here's a contender for eCOTY 2022. My 996 restomod by @Litchfield_UK
fitted with a 991 Carrera S 3.8-litre engine. I have now driven this car! Final tweaks, new exhaust etc to come. But already feels fantastic. And cheaper than a Singer.
fitted with a 991 Carrera S 3.8-litre engine. I have now driven this car! Final tweaks, new exhaust etc to come. But already feels fantastic. And cheaper than a Singer.
https://twitter.com/JethroBovingdon/status/1476519...
(includes vid of car idling which I can't see how to include here)
samoht said:
Jethro B said:
And here's a contender for eCOTY 2022. My 996 restomod by @Litchfield_UK
fitted with a 991 Carrera S 3.8-litre engine. I have now driven this car! Final tweaks, new exhaust etc to come. But already feels fantastic. And cheaper than a Singer.
fitted with a 991 Carrera S 3.8-litre engine. I have now driven this car! Final tweaks, new exhaust etc to come. But already feels fantastic. And cheaper than a Singer.
hooneybadger said:
Looks much better with the silver wheels although I'm not so sure about the colour of the car. But the colour is largely irrelevant with this car. Surely someone else will go down this road at some point or will that person have to be Me?hooneybadger said:
I concur!The .2 side skirts look much better than the .1 to these eyes. Think that's the route I'll go down - .1 Aero front bumper, .2 skirts and either duck or RS-esque wing on the back.
RE: cost for the 991 conversion - considering there is a market for £15k 3.7 and 3.9 conversions, I'd happily stick £20k into a 991 swap and flog the 3.4 for £5k. However, I have a feeling it would be significantly more than that!
Edited by WojaWabbit on Saturday 12th November 16:24
WojaWabbit said:
I concur!
The .2 side skirts look much better than the .1 to these eyes. Think that's the route I'll go down - .1 Aero front bumper, .2 skirts and either duck or RS-esque wing on the back.
RE: cost for the 991 conversion - considering there is a market for £15k 3.7 and 3.9 conversions, I'd happily stick £20k into a 991 swap and flog the 3.4 for £5k. However, I have a feeling it would be significantly more than that!
A decent engine and transmission would cost you £12-14k. A stand-alone ECU and engine loom another £2k minimum. The .2 side skirts look much better than the .1 to these eyes. Think that's the route I'll go down - .1 Aero front bumper, .2 skirts and either duck or RS-esque wing on the back.
RE: cost for the 991 conversion - considering there is a market for £15k 3.7 and 3.9 conversions, I'd happily stick £20k into a 991 swap and flog the 3.4 for £5k. However, I have a feeling it would be significantly more than that!
Edited by WojaWabbit on Saturday 12th November 16:16
An exhaust, clutch, countless hoses, pipes, clips, a DFi primary and secondary fuel pump, air con pipes, coolant pipes, fuel pipes, connectors for all the above, another few grand.
Then you get onto the labour ... (a huge part of which would be making the DFi work in a chassis not designed for it) then making the stand alone engine ECU work with/talk to, the car’s canbus system so that the dash works correctly.
A day (minimum, but probably more like two or three) on the rolling road mapping everything, and you’re good to go.
Not much change from £25k I reckon...
Slippydiff said:
WojaWabbit said:
I concur!
The .2 side skirts look much better than the .1 to these eyes. Think that's the route I'll go down - .1 Aero front bumper, .2 skirts and either duck or RS-esque wing on the back.
RE: cost for the 991 conversion - considering there is a market for £15k 3.7 and 3.9 conversions, I'd happily stick £20k into a 991 swap and flog the 3.4 for £5k. However, I have a feeling it would be significantly more than that!
A decent engine and transmission would cost you £12-14k. A stand-alone ECU and engine loom another £2k minimum. The .2 side skirts look much better than the .1 to these eyes. Think that's the route I'll go down - .1 Aero front bumper, .2 skirts and either duck or RS-esque wing on the back.
RE: cost for the 991 conversion - considering there is a market for £15k 3.7 and 3.9 conversions, I'd happily stick £20k into a 991 swap and flog the 3.4 for £5k. However, I have a feeling it would be significantly more than that!
Edited by WojaWabbit on Saturday 12th November 16:16
An exhaust, clutch, countless hoses, pipes, clips, a DFi primary and secondary fuel pump, air con pipes, coolant pipes, fuel pipes, connectors for all the above, another few grand.
Then you get onto the labour ... (a huge part of which would be making the DFi work in a chassis not designed for it) then making the stand alone engine ECU work with/talk to, the car’s canbus system so that the dash works correctly.
A day (minimum, but probably more like two or three) on the rolling road mapping everything, and you’re good to go.
Not much change from £25k I reckon...
If you were prepared to have a digital dash, lose the a/c etc. you could chop a wee chunk off but the bill would still sting a tad.
The £20k reference was what I'd consider to be a price that a reasonable number of people would be prepared to put into a 996 conversion, however at ~£30k it's not something I see being commercially viable unless a company found significant cost and time efficiencies when scaling up the quantities. Litchfield certainly don't seem to think its worth their effort!
£10k-15k 996 base car; £30k engine conversion; £5k-10k suspension, brakes, wheels, tyres etc... just isn't worth it for most of us, considering the alternatives at the price point. We've seen what happens to used CSR prices, the same would apply to a £60k 996.991.
WojaWabbit said:
Yep, a good summary of whats required there. I reckon you'd likely end up at closer to £30k if going down the OEM-look install.
If you were prepared to have a digital dash, lose the a/c etc. you could chop a wee chunk off but the bill would still sting a tad.
The £20k reference was what I'd consider to be a price that a reasonable number of people would be prepared to put into a 996 conversion, however at ~£30k it's not something I see being commercially viable unless a company found significant cost and time efficiencies when scaling up the quantities. Litchfield certainly don't seem to think its worth their effort!
£10k-15k 996 base car; £30k engine conversion; £5k-10k suspension, brakes, wheels, tyres etc... just isn't worth it for most of us, considering the alternatives at the price point. We've seen what happens to used CSR prices, the same would apply to a £60k 996.991.
If you were prepared to have a digital dash, lose the a/c etc. you could chop a wee chunk off but the bill would still sting a tad.
The £20k reference was what I'd consider to be a price that a reasonable number of people would be prepared to put into a 996 conversion, however at ~£30k it's not something I see being commercially viable unless a company found significant cost and time efficiencies when scaling up the quantities. Litchfield certainly don't seem to think its worth their effort!
£10k-15k 996 base car; £30k engine conversion; £5k-10k suspension, brakes, wheels, tyres etc... just isn't worth it for most of us, considering the alternatives at the price point. We've seen what happens to used CSR prices, the same would apply to a £60k 996.991.
Jethro said:
if you're going to reply something about 'could have bought a GT3', please don't. It's very dull and annoying
I'm inferring from this that it is in fact true that Jethro could have bought a GT3 for the same money as he's spent on his car.If you say he could have sold his car for £20k as-was (?), and a 996 GT3 starts around £75k, I'm inferring he's put circa £50k+ into this car in total, presumably most of that in the engine swap.
Which might go some way to explaining why Litchfield aren't expecting this to be the first of many conversions.
samoht said:
I'm inferring from this that it is in fact true that Jethro could have bought a GT3 for the same money as he's spent on his car.
If you say he could have sold his car for £20k as-was (?), and a 996 GT3 starts around £75k, I'm inferring he's put circa £50k+ into this car in total, presumably most of that in the engine swap.
Which might go some way to explaining why Litchfield aren't expecting this to be the first of many conversions.
Paint job, wheels, suspension and engine/‘box swap would have to be around the £40k mark. If you say he could have sold his car for £20k as-was (?), and a 996 GT3 starts around £75k, I'm inferring he's put circa £50k+ into this car in total, presumably most of that in the engine swap.
Which might go some way to explaining why Litchfield aren't expecting this to be the first of many conversions.
No doubt Litchfield would’ve done JB a mate’s rates deal (and worked on the car when they were slack (if they’re ever slack !! ) hence why it’s taken ??? years to complete the project.
Slippydiff said:
A decent engine and transmission would cost you £12-14k. A stand-alone ECU and engine loom another £2k minimum.
An exhaust, clutch, countless hoses, pipes, clips, a DFi primary and secondary fuel pump, air con pipes, coolant pipes, fuel pipes, connectors for all the above, another few grand.
Then you get onto the labour ... (a huge part of which would be making the DFi work in a chassis not designed for it) then making the stand alone engine ECU work with/talk to, the car’s canbus system so that the dash works correctly.
A day (minimum, but probably more like two or three) on the rolling road mapping everything, and you’re good to go.
Not much change from £25k I reckon...
Easier/cheaper to start with a whole accident-damaged 991 isn't it (like Litchfield did)? Could you use the 991 loom, clocks, etc if you were prepared to hack the 996 about a bit?An exhaust, clutch, countless hoses, pipes, clips, a DFi primary and secondary fuel pump, air con pipes, coolant pipes, fuel pipes, connectors for all the above, another few grand.
Then you get onto the labour ... (a huge part of which would be making the DFi work in a chassis not designed for it) then making the stand alone engine ECU work with/talk to, the car’s canbus system so that the dash works correctly.
A day (minimum, but probably more like two or three) on the rolling road mapping everything, and you’re good to go.
Not much change from £25k I reckon...
It's very interesting to me that this 991 engine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175431818684
is £750 less than this 996.2 engine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265694721284
Hmmmm. Does anyone have a 996 with a bad motor?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175431818684
is £750 less than this 996.2 engine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265694721284
Hmmmm. Does anyone have a 996 with a bad motor?
shalmaneser said:
It's very interesting to me that this 991 engine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175431818684
is £750 less than this 996.2 engine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265694721284
Hmmmm. Does anyone have a 996 with a bad motor?
Exactly https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175431818684
is £750 less than this 996.2 engine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265694721284
Hmmmm. Does anyone have a 996 with a bad motor?
Its all about supply and demand. Clearly there is no demand for the newer engine. So any supply available is priced cheap because there are no buyers.
ATM said:
Exactly
Its all about supply and demand. Clearly there is no demand for the newer engine. So any supply available is priced cheap because there are no buyers.
This, and demand is low because the DFi lumps don’t grenade like the M97/M97 units ...Its all about supply and demand. Clearly there is no demand for the newer engine. So any supply available is priced cheap because there are no buyers.
But also they’re not easily fitted into other 911 chassis due to the differing can-bus architecture.
I spoke to Jens at Ehresmann about fitting a 991.1 GTS/X51 motor into a Gen 2 997 3.6. He said don’t bother, it’s waaaay too complex a job to convert the Gen 2 997 electrics to work with the later 991.2 DFi motor.
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