911 (992) GTS - Preview Launch
Discussion
Geneve said:
Still not finding the love for the big, techy, 992, and the 991’T’ didn’t quite hit the spot. But, if Porsche do the job properly this time round, then a lwt, simply spec’d, manual ‘T’, could be a very attractive and purer proposition, for those who appreciate when ‘less is more’ - IMO.
Problem with any 992 T is the 3.0 turbo lump. Which isn't to say it's a bad engine, it's fantastic in some contexts, hell maybe most contexts. But if you're talking lightweight and purist and manual, which you are, NA is a far better fit with that narrow ethos.F6C said:
Problem with any 992 T is the 3.0 turbo lump. Which isn't to say it's a bad engine, it's fantastic in some contexts, hell maybe most contexts. But if you're talking lightweight and purist and manual, which you are, NA is a far better fit with that narrow ethos.
A T with the 718 GT4 engine would be quite a car.Indeed. And has been explicitly ruled out by Porsche. Walliser said the 718's 4.0 will not be going into the 911.
Which isn't to say it definitely won't happen. They back pedalled on manual for the GT3 and reverted to NA six for the 718 GTS, after all. But can't see it on this one, sadly. Don't actually think the customer base cares. Because the T isn't really purist and it certainly isn't lightweight, at least the 991.2 version wasn't. It's a nicely specced and well positioned / marketed Carrera. Model is more about being a bit different from the cooking Carreras for its own sake and having a little taste of that 'Porsche Special' image that comes in full strength with the GT cars. It's certainly clever marketing.
Which isn't to say it definitely won't happen. They back pedalled on manual for the GT3 and reverted to NA six for the 718 GTS, after all. But can't see it on this one, sadly. Don't actually think the customer base cares. Because the T isn't really purist and it certainly isn't lightweight, at least the 991.2 version wasn't. It's a nicely specced and well positioned / marketed Carrera. Model is more about being a bit different from the cooking Carreras for its own sake and having a little taste of that 'Porsche Special' image that comes in full strength with the GT cars. It's certainly clever marketing.
Wonder what the lead time on these will be, given the new car shortages? Just specced one up to £127k without going too crazy... Frustratingly the configurator wouldn't tell me the monthlies on that. Not sufficiently serious to trouble a dealership at this stage, but it would be interesting to know what I'd be in for.
Ah well. Guess I'll just wait until the 2nd hand market has calmed down a bit and go for one of those.
Ah well. Guess I'll just wait until the 2nd hand market has calmed down a bit and go for one of those.
Having recently taken delivery of a Carrera S I thought I'd be annoyed when the GTS was launched as I normally go for that model. But...the new car doesn't really float my boat. I think the 992 S is a stonking car and already too fast for the road. I don't like those wheels, and I prefer my Sportex interior to the GTS interior package.
My 992 S was £112k fully specced, with the sports suspension, front bumper, side skirts, chrono, exhaust and quite a bit more kit. Just specced up a GTS to the same level and it is waaaaay more expensive. Did the GTS not used to be the good value model? All the best bits packaged up and cheaper?!!
My 992 S was £112k fully specced, with the sports suspension, front bumper, side skirts, chrono, exhaust and quite a bit more kit. Just specced up a GTS to the same level and it is waaaaay more expensive. Did the GTS not used to be the good value model? All the best bits packaged up and cheaper?!!
n12maser said:
Seems like crazy money to me if you can have a new 718 4.0 GTS with a few choice additions for 67 to £70k.
I mean, I love 911s, I have one...but are the rear seats and the heritage of the model really worth that much extra?
Caysters have a price ceiling but 911s generally don't.I mean, I love 911s, I have one...but are the rear seats and the heritage of the model really worth that much extra?
Whilst GT4s and Spyders are great packages at the money 911s are undisputably the daddy.
Geneve said:
These days I see ‘GTS’ as a trim package for the mainstream models.
The model that I think could be the nicest, usable, driver-focussed, road car, might be the 992’T’.
Still not finding the love for the big, techy, 992, and the 991’T’ didn’t quite hit the spot. But, if Porsche do the job properly this time round, then a lwt, simply spec’d, manual ‘T’, could be a very attractive and purer proposition, for those who appreciate when ‘less is more’ - IMO.
A lightweight 992 T won't happen because its price point won't allow bespoke and lightweight and cf spec. The car is heavier than the 991.2 and even the 992 GT3 with its lighter ancilliaries geabox glass and cf bonnet is heavier than the 991.2 GT3.The model that I think could be the nicest, usable, driver-focussed, road car, might be the 992’T’.
Still not finding the love for the big, techy, 992, and the 991’T’ didn’t quite hit the spot. But, if Porsche do the job properly this time round, then a lwt, simply spec’d, manual ‘T’, could be a very attractive and purer proposition, for those who appreciate when ‘less is more’ - IMO.
The 991.2 T will be the car to have I said this 2 years back and prices are now back over list. Wish I had kept mine.
As the last of the true narrow bodied Carreras in these rose tinted times the 991.2 T will be highly collectable especially manuals and with its low numbers. Yes the cars has its flaws but as a contemporary 997.1 C2S substitute it has few peers at the money.
av185 said:
A lightweight 992 T won't happen because its price point won't allow bespoke and lightweight and cf spec. The car is heavier than the 991.2 and even the 992 GT3 with its lighter ancilliaries geabox glass and cf bonnet is heavier than the 991.2 GT3.
The 991.2 T will be the car to have I said this 2 years back and prices are now back over list. Wish I had kept mine.
As the last of the true narrow bodied Carreras in these rose tinted times the 991.2 T will be highly collectable especially manuals and with its low numbers. Yes the cars has its flaws but as a contemporary 997.1 C2S substitute it has few peers at the money.
That or the 991.1 GTS Manual.The 991.2 T will be the car to have I said this 2 years back and prices are now back over list. Wish I had kept mine.
As the last of the true narrow bodied Carreras in these rose tinted times the 991.2 T will be highly collectable especially manuals and with its low numbers. Yes the cars has its flaws but as a contemporary 997.1 C2S substitute it has few peers at the money.
The difference between the 991.2 Manual Coupe and the 991.2 ‘T’ Manual Coupe is barely detectable - in fact I preferred the standard car on the 19” wheels on U.K. roads.
The difference between the ‘87-89 3.2 Carrera SE and the ‘Club Sport’ was more noticeable (although not night and day).
My hope would be for the 992T to follow that example more closely, and perhaps restrict the options.
Sadly, the pretty ‘narrow body’ can’t be one of them.
The difference between the ‘87-89 3.2 Carrera SE and the ‘Club Sport’ was more noticeable (although not night and day).
My hope would be for the 992T to follow that example more closely, and perhaps restrict the options.
Sadly, the pretty ‘narrow body’ can’t be one of them.
av185 said:
As the last of the true narrow bodied Carreras in these rose tinted times the 991.2 T will be highly collectable especially manuals and with its low numbers.
Pretty much every 911 is the last something. Last NA. Last hydraulic steering. Last air cooled. Last cable throttle. Last this. Last that.991.2T is turbo and electric steering, stuffed to the gunwales with ECUs and built into a big old body with a fat physical footprint and the thick end of 1,500kg real-world kerb with a tank of fuel and whatever. Hard to see it as a purist icon 20 years from now. Which isn't to say it's a bad car. It's just not an obvious purists' choice years down the road.
You might be right, though. Some arguably mediocre Porsches have ended up as pricey collectables based factors other than the driving experience. Relatively flabby, slower and arguably duller to drive widebody 993 Carreras springs to mind. Others along the same lines. So, yeah, maybe.
F6C said:
Pretty much every 911 is the last something. Last NA. Last hydraulic steering. Last air cooled. Last cable throttle. Last this. Last that.
991.2T is turbo and electric steering, stuffed to the gunwales with ECUs and built into a big old body with a fat physical footprint and the thick end of 1,500kg real-world kerb with a tank of fuel and whatever. Hard to see it as a purist icon 20 years from now. Which isn't to say it's a bad car. It's just not an obvious purists' choice years down the road.
You might be right, though. Some arguably mediocre Porsches have ended up as pricey collectables based factors other than the driving experience. Relatively flabby, slower and arguably duller to drive widebody 993 Carreras springs to mind. Others along the same lines. So, yeah, maybe.
There wont be purists in 20 years time though,most will be dead or too old to drive.991.2T is turbo and electric steering, stuffed to the gunwales with ECUs and built into a big old body with a fat physical footprint and the thick end of 1,500kg real-world kerb with a tank of fuel and whatever. Hard to see it as a purist icon 20 years from now. Which isn't to say it's a bad car. It's just not an obvious purists' choice years down the road.
You might be right, though. Some arguably mediocre Porsches have ended up as pricey collectables based factors other than the driving experience. Relatively flabby, slower and arguably duller to drive widebody 993 Carreras springs to mind. Others along the same lines. So, yeah, maybe.
I think in general,regardless of model, a manual contemporary 911 is a relatively rare thing.
The T as mentioned above has it’s faults - every car has!
As a modern version of the basic classic 911 ethos it’s not bad though in today’s world.
The size, weight or turbo’s might seem like minor foibles as the years progress to electric world.
The T as mentioned above has it’s faults - every car has!
As a modern version of the basic classic 911 ethos it’s not bad though in today’s world.
The size, weight or turbo’s might seem like minor foibles as the years progress to electric world.
DMC2 said:
Having recently taken delivery of a Carrera S I thought I'd be annoyed when the GTS was launched as I normally go for that model. But...the new car doesn't really float my boat. I think the 992 S is a stonking car and already too fast for the road. I don't like those wheels, and I prefer my Sportex interior to the GTS interior package.
My 992 S was £112k fully specced, with the sports suspension, front bumper, side skirts, chrono, exhaust and quite a bit more kit. Just specced up a GTS to the same level and it is waaaaay more expensive. Did the GTS not used to be the good value model? All the best bits packaged up and cheaper?!!
I had a quick go on the configurator this morning - £5k for the GTS interior pack, because you know it forces you to add the £2.5k CF trim whether you want it or not, and the standard colours are all boring so you need to spunk another £2k on special colours, blah blah blah. I got to £120k for the base GTS 2wd and decided to give up before I even got to the trim and audio options.My 992 S was £112k fully specced, with the sports suspension, front bumper, side skirts, chrono, exhaust and quite a bit more kit. Just specced up a GTS to the same level and it is waaaaay more expensive. Did the GTS not used to be the good value model? All the best bits packaged up and cheaper?!!
I think you're right, the S is probably more than enough and can be well-spec'd for £105k.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
DMC2 said:
Having recently taken delivery of a Carrera S I thought I'd be annoyed when the GTS was launched as I normally go for that model. But...the new car doesn't really float my boat. I think the 992 S is a stonking car and already too fast for the road. I don't like those wheels, and I prefer my Sportex interior to the GTS interior package.
My 992 S was £112k fully specced, with the sports suspension, front bumper, side skirts, chrono, exhaust and quite a bit more kit. Just specced up a GTS to the same level and it is waaaaay more expensive. Did the GTS not used to be the good value model? All the best bits packaged up and cheaper?!!
I had a quick go on the configurator this morning - £5k for the GTS interior pack, because you know it forces you to add the £2.5k CF trim whether you want it or not, and the standard colours are all boring so you need to spunk another £2k on special colours, blah blah blah. I got to £120k for the base GTS 2wd and decided to give up before I even got to the trim and audio options.My 992 S was £112k fully specced, with the sports suspension, front bumper, side skirts, chrono, exhaust and quite a bit more kit. Just specced up a GTS to the same level and it is waaaaay more expensive. Did the GTS not used to be the good value model? All the best bits packaged up and cheaper?!!
I think you're right, the S is probably more than enough and can be well-spec'd for £105k.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
I think you're right, the S is probably more than enough and can be well-spec'd for £105k.
Am inclined to agree. Seeing that to add £333 of black window trim required a far greater spend to be made on items I don’t want has made me consider going down the “S” route. Even the colours are broadly the same as the “S”……. 🤔franki68 said:
There wont be purists in 20 years time though,most will be dead or too old to drive.
I think that's wrong, see no fundamental reason for proportion of people prone to purist tendencies to change.But maybe it's right. So, what will be the T's appeal to the non purist who is the only surviving potential buyer? The entry-level Carrera power and performance that's less than a Carrera S, let alone anything else? Or just the stickers and 'T' branding?
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