Help - Serious Repair Bill

[BertBert]

Taffy66 said:

Porsche's reliability reputation has long gone up in smoke. VAG bean counters are now fully in charge of the purse strings and decide where each and every component is sourced from, usually the very cheapest they can find. Our Taycan seem to have a very high perceived quality but the 992 Series cars are definitely a step down from previous iterations.

I really don't think there ever was one. It's just a myth. For the length of time I can remember which is back to the late 80s they have been unreliable with big bills.

[bosshog]

BertBert said:

I really don't think there ever was one. It's just a myth. For the length of time I can remember which is back to the late 80s they have been unreliable with big bills.

I agree. Porsche in my mind have never been a reliable marque. I think the masses translate quality interior = reliable mechanics which personally I don't think is not the case. Toyota yes, Porsche no.

Warranty everytime for me, simply to take the stress worry out of the ownership. It's not much at £900/year. Bit of a bargain I think in the scheme of running costs.

Still - good result for the OP at 2K currently - thats really quite good if including a new turbo (not a bad thing to have).

[nunpuncher]

Cheib said:

I don’t think it is an expensive warranty…circa £1200 for an unlimited mileage warranty which is pretty much no quibble (at least in my experience) is pretty good. McLaren warranties are three times the price.

What I don’t think people price in with whether you do or don’t go with a warranty is time/logistics/ball ache.

Something goes wrong with my car the OPC sends a driver to pick up the car normally within a couple of days which given I am an hour/50 miles away I think is pretty good. Car gets fixed and brought back.

None of my time is taken up, there is very little hassle and no stress.

Given the cost of the product and the cost of the warranty I don't think "a couple of days" to collect a car is good unless it's a very very minor niggle.

[Cheib]

nunpuncher said:

Cheib said:

I don’t think it is an expensive warranty…circa £1200 for an unlimited mileage warranty which is pretty much no quibble (at least in my experience) is pretty good. McLaren warranties are three times the price.

What I don’t think people price in with whether you do or don’t go with a warranty is time/logistics/ball ache.

Something goes wrong with my car the OPC sends a driver to pick up the car normally within a couple of days which given I am an hour/50 miles away I think is pretty good. Car gets fixed and brought back.

None of my time is taken up, there is very little hassle and no stress.

Given the cost of the product and the cost of the warranty I don't think "a couple of days" to collect a car is good unless it's a very very minor niggle.

That’s your prerogative. I think I am being realistic…I live a fair distance away and given they will typically have a. Driver booked up a day in advance I don’t think it’s bad. Not sure how many companies run a service business always holding back capacity that they can pick a car up within a day…if you live 10 miles away maybe. But I am 50 miles away and it’s a solid hour each way…so probably two to three hours all told.

I am also fortunate that we run more than one car so can work around it.

If it’s something serious the AA come out and if the car can’t be driven it’s a low loader and a replacement car same day (car rental company not a Porsche from the OPC). Had that twice with the Cayenne…once was a suspension fault and the other a faulty immobiliser.

[Chamon_Lee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Totally agree, completely and totally unacceptable for ANY car let alone something so expensive. If porsche want to use parts made of chocolate or not protect the parts correctly for our market then its not fit for purpose either way: they should fix it free of charge.

OP I would be fighting this even if it means going to court.

[Chamon_Lee]

Haribo Lecter said:

Chamon_Lee said:

you must have low standards.
Can't fathom how one would think that; its a 4 year old car with low millage which has a full dealer SH.
Warranty or no warranty the question arises that is this reasonably expected of such a car or any car of this year/age/millage/condition.
Answer is: **** NO

My standards are based on not being in that position, so the warranty would have covered it. The manufacturer has no obligation to help if your warranty is up, so 50% off is a win.

Whether it should have happened at all is another matter, and I don’t disagree on that point.

I understand what you are saying and its a valid point they don't have to technically help but honestly its not a win. The product purchased needs to last a reasonable amount of time, if it does not then its not a wow that porsche helped out, it is their duty to help out on a product which is made of st (BTW I own a porsche too). I would be surprised if this couldnt be fought in court.

There is no way that corroding pipes which cannot be removed from a turbo is reasonably expected on a 4 year old car regardless of millage. If that was reasonably expected then they should add it as part of the service at 2 and 4 years so this sort of thing doesn't happen.

Seems like porsche are in a habit of using subpar items to keep the dealerships going. Love the cars but honestly this is not on and its not just one things, theres a list of sub par things on these cars.

OP glad you managed to get it down to 2k which is much more palatable but I would still be fighting for the other 2k either with them or in court.

[Cheib]

Chamon_Lee said:

Totally agree, completely and totally unacceptable for ANY car let alone something so expensive. If porsche want to use parts made of chocolate or not protect the parts correctly for our market then its not fit for purpose either way: they should fix it free of charge.

OP I would be fighting this even if it means going to court.

If OP wants to go down that route. Mate of mine went down this route with Audi….bad design which meant leaves blocked a drain and the front footwell’s flooded. Audi didn’t want to know so he made a complaint and they sorted it pronto.

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/consumers/make-a...

[Monkeylegend]

bosshog said:

Still - good result for the OP at 2K currently - thats really quite good if including a new turbo (not a bad thing to have).

Not really, it just shows how cynical the OPCs can be. Even £2k is too much on a 4 year old car for what should be a simple corroded pipe replacement, but why did they ask for £8k in the first place if they can drop it to £2k.

It's like getting a renewal quote for your insurance company for renewal which is way above the current years premium.

They hope you will just automatically renew and they will fleece you thank you vey much. Query the high premium and they are suddenly your best friend doing you a favour by knocking the price down to match your other quotes.

Corporate greed and treating loyal customers as mugs.

[bosshog]

Monkeylegend said:

Not really, it just shows how cynical the OPCs can be. Even £2k is too much on a 4 year old car for what should be a simple corroded pipe replacement, but why did they ask for £8k in the first place if they can drop it to £2k.
.

A new turbo, pipes fitting etc. Seems about right price wise. Not arguing that it’s right the whole turbo needs replacing because of corrosion though….

[Ken Figenus]

Last time I looked the cost of an exchange turbo was hundreds not thousands so anyone considering £4k a win is just chucking their money away unintelligently. https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/shop/exchange-turb...

Shocked at some of the design and engineering principles applied by Porsche but the solution offered by Slippydiff 'cut and then series join the oil pipe' is just so pragmatic and simple - its not a bodge its a huge money saver as many oil pipes have joints anyway. Its people like this you want on the team!

[LunarOne]

Ken Figenus said:

Last time I looked the cost of an exchange turbo was hundreds not thousands so anyone considering £4k a win is just chucking their money away unintelligently. https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/shop/exchange-turb...

All the prices on that site are for exchange turbos on white goods vehicles. In other words, they have been remanufactured and are not used in high performance applications. The OPC will be selling a new Porsche specific unit. Apples to oranges.

[Ken Figenus]

Yeah, that was a quick link but I did this for a Subaru once and it was about £600 exchange. They are all from Garret or similar. Beware Porsche tax!

Borg Warner 911 Turbocharger complete (not exchange)£1k https://turbozentrum.co.uk/Porsche-911-Turbocharge...

[ooid]

ChrisW. said:

Fast and Spurious said:

Hyundai.

Toyota ...

Let's put "Lexus" in that list too, well same family with Toyota anyway.

If any modern Porsche owners here (997,991,992) would put their cars on the ramp, and compare with a same age (or even high miles) Lexus say, ISF, RCF or LC500, or even older models like GS... The build quality, material and overall engineering beyond comparison... There is no comparison of air-cooled 911 and their joy of their driving, but water-cooled modern porsches are not worth what they actually are imho.

[Discombobulate]

BertBert said:

I really don't think there ever was one. It's just a myth. For the length of time I can remember which is back to the late 80s they have been unreliable with big bills.

Sadly I have to agree (having run everything from 1970 911 through to relatively modern day (I stopped at 997). Mostly new or nearly new. I have had big bills for them all. Earliest trouble was new front arms on a 993 at 9000 miles due to failed bushes, closely followed by a top end rebuild on a 3 year old low mileage 3.2 that was smoking (valve stems). And don't mention the leaky sieve I had in the back of my 964. My wife's 997 has done 60K and been one of the best surprisingly but I have just completed the normal refurb (coolant pipes, condensers, exhaust fittings, tandem pump etc etc) so time has caught up with it. Still love them though.

[Grantstown]

ooid said:

ChrisW. said:

Fast and Spurious said:

Hyundai.

Toyota ...

Let's put "Lexus" in that list too, well same family with Toyota anyway.

If any modern Porsche owners here (997,991,992) would put their cars on the ramp, and compare with a same age (or even high miles) Lexus say, ISF, RCF or LC500, or even older models like GS... The build quality, material and overall engineering beyond comparison... There is no comparison of air-cooled 911 and their joy of their driving, but water-cooled modern porsches are not worth what they actually are imho.

Yeah sure, some of the nuts and bolts are made of crap, and the mechanicals are very exposed at the back end….but the engine is very low down, there is the immense traction that this has enabled and you can run a > 500 bhp car with a manual box. There aren’t many of those about.

[ChrisW.]

I can understand with some components why a maximum cooling requirement may justify a very unprotected open design, but in these scenarios the materials chosen should be able to withstand that environment to which they will be exposed.

This is not rocket science, so if actively not attended to, the logical question to ask is why ?

Followed possibly by, what view of their customers might justify this ?

Porsche did very narrowly avoid bankruptcy in 1993 ... to be saved by Weidekind / Kaizen manufacturing which they learned from Toyota and the Boxster sharing the front end of the 996 thereby substantially increasing volumes with similar development costs.

But surely they can now afford not to take short cuts at the expense of their market ... unless ?

[Cheib]

ooid said:

Let's put "Lexus" in that list too, well same family with Toyota anyway.

If any modern Porsche owners here (997,991,992) would put their cars on the ramp, and compare with a same age (or even high miles) Lexus say, ISF, RCF or LC500, or even older models like GS... The build quality, material and overall engineering beyond comparison... There is no comparison of air-cooled 911 and their joy of their driving, but water-cooled modern porsches are not worth what they actually are imho.

Different cars for different purposes. Don’t doubt Lexus’s are better built but (in my experience at least) a Porsche 911 cam be driven to a track and pushed as hard as I dare and drive home again. I’ve used both a 997 and 991.2 like that on multiple occasions…not sure there are many other cars than can do that. Whilst there are some issues with quality of parts used I think you can drive them harder than pretty much anything else on the road.

[pete.g]

I do quite a lot of marine work - you have to use components that can withstand the corrosive effect of salt water and deal with heat cycling and galvanic corrosion. At the least I would expect Porsche to be using a barrier grease when attaching the turbo oil pipes, though I would also want a non-corrosive solution for the fuel rail.

I'm also reminded of a summer job I had many years ago, assisting an old school plumber - 'Always think of the next man' was his mantra when fitting anything - if it goes together, it should come apart and you use whatever materials and treatments make that possible.

[Slippydiff]

ooid said:

Let's put "Lexus" in that list too, well same family with Toyota anyway.

If any modern Porsche owners here (997,991,992) would put their cars on the ramp, and compare with a same age (or even high miles) Lexus say, ISF, RCF or LC500, or even older models like GS... The build quality, material and overall engineering beyond comparison... There is no comparison of air-cooled 911 and their joy of their driving, but water-cooled modern porsches are not worth what they actually are imho.

The quality of the components used in the aircooled cars was generally far, far superior to those of the watercooled 911 iterations.

The fasteners, clips, exhaust componentry etc were generally far better quality (in many cases stainless steel) and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the factory applied a very high quality wax to all the mechanical components on the underside of the cars, and in tandem with the aforementioned high quality componentry this ensured their longevity.

However when the Japanese automotive consultants were employed by Stuttgart, cost cutting became the primary focus, but when VAG finally took the reins to Porsche, the quality of the componentry was further reduced (and a lot of really nasty, VAG "single use" plastic clips fittings became the norm.

Dynamically the cars may be the best they've ever produced, but from an engineering perspective, I'd suggest they're the worst, and this thread would tend to lend that perspective some credence.

I've run various BMW's for the past 20 years and covered in excess of half a million miles in them, in that time I've not once been left stranded roadside, but neither have I had to have a major mechanical component replaced at my cost.

Wonderful though the rear engined cars from Stuttgart are, their build quality and customer service appear atrocious in comparison to that of the Bavarian marque.

Many years ago I was told that there was "institutionalized arrogance" amongst the management at Stuttgart, and that was evidenced by their modus operandi. On the basis of the 996 and Gen 1 997/987 engine debacles and their seeming ambivalence to their customer's, one can only conclude that is/was the case.

[ttdan]

Slippydiff said:

ooid said:

Let's put "Lexus" in that list too, well same family with Toyota anyway.

If any modern Porsche owners here (997,991,992) would put their cars on the ramp, and compare with a same age (or even high miles) Lexus say, ISF, RCF or LC500, or even older models like GS... The build quality, material and overall engineering beyond comparison... There is no comparison of air-cooled 911 and their joy of their driving, but water-cooled modern porsches are not worth what they actually are imho.

The quality of the components used in the aircooled cars was generally far, far superior to those of the watercooled 911 iterations.

The fasteners, clips, exhaust componentry etc were generally far better quality (in many cases stainless steel) and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the factory applied a very high quality wax to all the mechanical components on the underside of the cars, and in tandem with the aforementioned high quality componentry this ensured their longevity.

However when the Japanese automotive consultants were employed by Stuttgart, cost cutting became the primary focus, but when VAG finally took the reins to Porsche, the quality of the componentry was further reduced (and a lot of really nasty, VAG "single use" plastic clips fittings became the norm.

Dynamically the cars may be the best they've ever produced, but from an engineering perspective, I'd suggest they're the worst, and this thread would tend to lend that perspective some credence.

I've run various BMW's for the past 20 years and covered in excess of half a million miles in them, in that time I've not once been left stranded roadside, but neither have I had to have a major mechanical component replaced at my cost.

Wonderful though the rear engined cars from Stuttgart are, their build quality and customer service appear atrocious in comparison to that of the Bavarian marque.

Many years ago I was told that there was "institutionalized arrogance" amongst the management at Stuttgart, and that was evidenced by their modus operandi. On the basis of the 996 and Gen 1 997/987 engine debacles and their seeming ambivalence to their customer's, one can only conclude that is/was the case.

BMW are far far better in this regard. Considering the volume they sell that’s no mean feat.