911 Carrera S (992) availability

[Pivo]

Haribo Lecter said:

My local dealer said they’re only expecting to deliver 2 new 911’s this year, whereas previously they were getting 2 a month.

Doesn’t sound like things are improving at all.

Same here, my OPC is wishing and praying for one 911 per quarter. So far, they got one 911 GTS in the last six months.

[Pivo]

I see we have lots of intelligent observations… and few current order experiences.

I read press releases with global production stats, but I have not seen UK sales stats. I suspect we are being deprived of Porsche cars in the UK and the sales numbers are not being publicised. The SE at the OPC are equally frustrated, as they have to sell 2nd hand cars because new stock is hard to get.

Go and place an order… when I did order 992 C2S in Dec 2021, the SE produced Porsche GB chart with forecasted availability of diff models and derivatives. It was 12-months lead time for C2S, while GTS was shorter and C2 was slightly longer. I was 4th in the queue. Today, 7 months later, I am 3rd in the queue, only because someone lost interest and bought another car.

This is my third new Porsche order at the same OPC and I have no reason to suspect SE of any nonsense. He was always upfront with me. The bottom line is UK is no longer getting the allocations we used to, for whatever sinister reason.

[Pivo]

esotericar said:

I posted the rough numbers above.

I saw your numbers, however my actual experience is somewhat different and I hear the same feedback from different OPCs. Dealers are getting fewer 911s and lead-times are getting longer.

[Pivo]

esotericar said:

Odd then that you said you hadn't seen any. The numbers are from the SMMT website.

Another good indicator of reality as opposed to claims is used availability. On Pistonheads, there are currently 136 used 992 Carrera for sale and 178 991 Carrera. That's obviously both 991.1 and 991.2 combined - the whole 991 cycle. The 992.1 cycle hasn't even finished yet, and then there will be the 992.2. And 992 are supposed to be in very short supply? All the hard evidence says otherwise. Only anecdotal stuff is claiming the short supply.

Your stats might be correct, however it doesn’t change the fact that my OPC has not received new C2S in over six months and I am 3rd out of 8 orders with deposits. I have no reason not to believe my SE, as he sold me two other Porsches and always been truthful with me. For me, anything else is hearsay.

[Pivo]

esotericar said:

136 992 Carreras for sale on PH is not hearsay. Over 350 992s (all types inc Turbo, GT etc) for sale on Autotrader is not hearsay. SMMT figures are not hearsay. Porsche's official delivery figures are not hearsay. Somewhat ironically, what your dealer SE told you - that is indeed hearsay!

have you seen the prices of 911 in the second hand market?
No wonder many people put on the market their cars. I am tempted myself, but not before my new, not a second hand one, arrives.

[Pivo]

It appears that to protect the profitability of the business, Porsche is wheeling-out low-volume, high-margin derivatives:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2022/motorsports/p...

It looks amazing, but all I want is a C2S

[Pivo]

Cheib said:

Pivo said:

esotericar said:

Odd then that you said you hadn't seen any. The numbers are from the SMMT website.

Another good indicator of reality as opposed to claims is used availability. On Pistonheads, there are currently 136 used 992 Carrera for sale and 178 991 Carrera. That's obviously both 991.1 and 991.2 combined - the whole 991 cycle. The 992.1 cycle hasn't even finished yet, and then there will be the 992.2. And 992 are supposed to be in very short supply? All the hard evidence says otherwise. Only anecdotal stuff is claiming the short supply.

Your stats might be correct, however it doesn’t change the fact that my OPC has not received new C2S in over six months and I am 3rd out of 8 orders with deposits. I have no reason not to believe my SE, as he sold me two other Porsches and always been truthful with me. For me, anything else is hearsay.

It is not unusual for Porsche to severally reduce allocations//build slots of specific models during the models life cycle. Obviously when 992 was first launched all we had were Carrera, S and Turbo S….so the entire annual production was concentrated on those models. We now have the relatively recently launched GTS and GT3 so production is now skewed to those cars. During the 991.2 model’s life I remember my dealer telling me he had a customer who wanted a C2S…they only had visibility on one allocated build slot for the next year. At the same time could buy a GTS or a T very easily….dealers had loads of cars coming through.

I suspect they do it as it helps creat demand/support used prices as well as making demand for the 911 relatively constant throughout each model generation….we currently have circa 50 Turbo S’s on the used marked and 600 plus sold in the UK…which is a lot of £200k cars. But because they’ve directed production to GT3/GTS t is now a very long wait to get a Turbo S (two years) so used prices stay firm.

I don’t dispute what your SE is telling you but I am not surprised that C2S’s are in relatively short supply. Based on what happened during the 991.2 life cycle they would be anyway.

This is very useful intel @Cheib , thanks for sharing.

I don’t mind waiting for the C2S and I am even willing to wait for the 992.2 , I would just like some more certainty of the process.

On that note, I recall one journo mentioned that Porsche is staying true to their cycle of 4+3 years per model. I.e. 992 was launched in 2019 as 2020MY, and we can expect 992.2 to be launched in 2024, run for 3 years and be replaced by new model.

Time flies, we will soon find out if this cycle will continue.

[Pivo]

At this time of electronics shortages, I wish Porsche would release dumbed-down retro car, but it will not pass the guys with thick glasses, clipboard and hi-vis jackets.

[Pivo]

I visited OPC Reading today, as it is closer to the GB mothership. I enquired about new order for 911 GTS , thinking that it might have shorted queue and lead-times.

I was advised that the guidance is mid-2024, but it is merely an educated guesstimate. Also , Porsche GB no longer issue a chart for different 911 derivatives, they are all in 2024 bucket.

Final, interesting point is that they have 14 GTS orders on their books, so I would be # 15.

All of a sudden I am content that I am #3 at another OPC 🤓

[Pivo]

OPC have uncapped margins on second hand vehicles. Considering that +70% of one million of 911 ever built are still on the road, parts and service will be another major profit driver, so OPC are not at risk anytime soon.

[Pivo]

Davidkn said:

theres different queues for each model though, so theres a queue for (I think, or it could just be model shape and not 2 or 4 wd, although if you have an order for a 2wd car, you cant swap the same allocation for a 4wd one) 2wd coupe, 2wd cab, 4wd coupe, 2wd cab, targa etc, so if they say they have 14 GTS orders, that could only be 2x 2wd cabs etc.

I agree, each derivative has a separate queue, however Porsche GB forecast doesn’t differentiate.

Last year I saw Porsche-GB one-pager forecast chart, showing which quarter one can expect which derivative. I selected C2S and I was 4-th on the list.

Today I enquired about GTS, considering a second (parallel) order at diff OPC. The forecast is mid-2024, for all derivatives. I would be 15th in the queue… no point wasting time. C2S has to be sooner.

The OPC guys simply don’t know, so they are trying to manage our expectations. That is all to it.

[Pivo]

Davidkn said:

we should be thankful we dont live in America, with their dealer markup on new cars, some dealers are selling GT3s as $100k over list, and GTS's with a $50k markup on new cars, thats daylight robbery. Thankfully thats not allowed here, the best they can do is sell it to a regular customer, who sells it back to them and then they can then sell it at a markup as a second hand car.

I have heard of a-merican mark-ups, but that is insane and this bubble has to pop. We need to keep our heads cool and keep the powder dry.

[Pivo]

I had a call with Porsche GB today and opportunistically I asked about my order for C2S. The lady did see the order on the system and offered to talk to the allocation team. I later got an email with a forecast for end of 2023.

That is rather underwhelming as when I placed an order in Dec 2021, the forecast was 9 months, I thought that was doable and I waited. Today, that is 8 months later, the forecast is ~24 months. All the excuses aside, that is uncool!

[Pivo]

Docmem said:

That’s too bad, I really thought that wait is two years for new customers but it’s for everyone. I booked in May 2021 and was told that I will very likely get the car by December 21 or at the latest in the first quarter of 2022. Now my car is moved down to November. That’s 18 months wait already. It is too long but what can one do !

Edited by Docmem on Thursday 18th August 00:42

Edited by Docmem on Thursday 18th August 00:43

Within this context EV’s are becoming more attractive proposition… I am wondering if that is not some kind of dr Evil masterplan [tin-hat off]

[Pivo]

ClubsportStr said:

I put deposit down on C2 last August and delivery is September this year .

Some guys have all the luck… well played, sir.

[Pivo]

Very interesting video. We knew some of the facts, this puts it into better perspective:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CheW1LpFIVI/

[Pivo]

Thomas Covenant said:

This is probably Porsche's most important year. The plan is for VAG group to spin off Porsche into an IPO while still having a controlling stake. This is nothing more than fattening the proverbial calf. Even if that means alienating one of their most important markets. That's what's driving their behaviour, purely IPO price.

I agree completely… dressing up for IPO is driving production mix, allocation to the markets and the R&D pipeline.
Investors want growth and profitability. 911 is a ‘halo’ model, not as profitable, but hugely important.

[Pivo]

Given the Porsche IPO plans, do you think they will release 992.2 in 2023 or 2024.

I have collated some interesting data sourced from the Total911 mag, so it should be fairly accurate… see below.

[Pivo]

Pivo said:

Given the Porsche IPO plans, do you think they will release 992.2 in 2023 or 2024.

I think 992.2 is coming out in 2023!

992 base, S, GTS, Turbo S is out.
992 GT3, SC, GT3 RS is out.
What is next to keep the IPO excitement going? The 992.2!

[Pivo]

I recon 992.2 will be timed just ahead the IPO, to generate max enthusiasm for the brand and the listing.

Now I want both 911\992.2 car… and an old-fashioned Porsche stock\share certificate issued in that year!