996 - only buy from a reputable dealer?

996 - only buy from a reputable dealer?

Author
Discussion

ATM

15,394 posts

200 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
I like this one and the dealer has a couple more for sale too.

22 grand
C2
Manual
2000 - levers not buttons for bonnet and boot release

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224984457164




jwbc1984

Original Poster:

112 posts

226 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
Really nice blue, not sure in the tan interior though.

Moot point, I have to do a 996.2 as live inside ulez. I know you can get a cert of conformity to prove 996.1 is ok but it’s a bit of a gamble.

jwbc1984

Original Poster:

112 posts

226 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
ATM said:
MrC986 said:
As for your garage issue, I’d suggest you just avoid cars with an aerokit front bumper
This
I’ve heard this before so good point.

I *think* the issue will not be scraping front or rear, more bottoming out when driving over the top and in. An old e92 320, which has about 16cm of ground clearance has about 5 cm of clearance in the middle. It does have a longer wheelbase though.

I think I’m going have to source a friendly 996 owner or request a test drive to see for sure.

If it does I’ve seen another post that shows well placed speedbumps on the ramp can lift the back of the car clearing the bump. If it comes to that will wheel in the father in law who has been an engineer all his life. My career in marketing has not prepared me well for this.

ATM

15,394 posts

200 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
jwbc1984 said:
I have to do a 996.2 as live inside ulez. I know you can get a cert of conformity to prove 996.1 is ok but it’s a bit of a gamble.
I would try some more number plates. I just tried my friends [green] and his is not ULEZ and neither is mine.


jonny996

2,486 posts

198 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
jwbc1984 said:
Really nice blue, not sure in the tan interior though.

Moot point, I have to do a 996.2 as live inside ulez. I know you can get a cert of conformity to prove 996.1 is ok but it’s a bit of a gamble.
996.2!!! Burn him😀, the hassel to get a .1 certificate will be worth it

ATM

15,394 posts

200 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
jonny996 said:
jwbc1984 said:
Really nice blue, not sure in the tan interior though.

Moot point, I have to do a 996.2 as live inside ulez. I know you can get a cert of conformity to prove 996.1 is ok but it’s a bit of a gamble.
996.2!!! Burn him??, the hassel to get a .1 certificate will be worth it
It's hardly a hassle. One email to Porsche and boom it's done. Yeah I agree about the burning. We did have a 996.1 owner swing the CAZ ULEZ thing recently which is way more difficult than the TFL ULEZ. OP has not told us where he is but I'm assuming London Town as most people refer to their TFL as ULEZ.

lemmingjames

7,126 posts

185 months

Saturday 28th May
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jonny996 said:
The 99 ocean blue C4 at FGP is exact same as mycar and i dont think it is over priced , i dont get the FGP bashing
I'm not bashing them per se, just do your own research into any company.

Maybe they was having an off day with the members on 911uk.

When I had my old car, a reputable Indy left the earth strap loose on it so some places do have their off days.

jimPH

3,981 posts

61 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
I'd be looking for a hartech build. If its a private sale, ppi it, job done.

jwbc1984

Original Poster:

112 posts

226 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
Yea, I’m London, about 1/2 inside the new expanded ulez. Already has to sell one car because of it.

I love the vitriol to a 996.2!!

I would say, the fried eggs of the .1 have aged VERY well, much better than the facelift.

jonny996

2,486 posts

198 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
Am I the only one thinking expectations need to be set.
We’re talking about a recognised apprenticing classic of the most recognisable sports car that has ever been maid for the price of a VW Polo.
If it’s going to have a Hartech rebuild, pass a PPI & have good ownership & service history, it’s going to be fake or expensive.
For some reason, us 996 owners never like to talk up our cars

ATM

15,394 posts

200 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
jonny996 said:
Am I the only one thinking expectations need to be set.
We’re talking about a recognised apprenticing classic of the most recognisable sports car that has ever been maid for the price of a VW Polo.
If it’s going to have a Hartech rebuild, pass a PPI & have good ownership & service history, it’s going to be fake or expensive.
For some reason, us 996 owners never like to talk up our cars
The OP didn't mention Hartech so let's not put words in his mouth.

I don't want to debate values but I agree with You. We should be more positive. A nice early car is a relative bargain in my opinion.

I think the main problem with these cars is their price. Owners don't want to invest too much into them because they won't recover that money if they sell. That doesn't give you a lot of wiggle room.

Then buyers come along who want the world for nothing. They want a well maintained car with all new everything, low mileage, the right spec, lovely original condition and low owners. These cars just don't exist.

jonny996

2,486 posts

198 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
Apologies OP I never meant to refer to you, it was a more general observation

jimPH

3,981 posts

61 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
jonny996 said:
Am I the only one thinking expectations need to be set.
We’re talking about a recognised apprenticing classic of the most recognisable sports car that has ever been maid for the price of a VW Polo.
If it’s going to have a Hartech rebuild, pass a PPI & have good ownership & service history, it’s going to be fake or expensive.
For some reason, us 996 owners never like to talk up our cars
Correct, but a Hartech build is well worth the money (in my view) and I'd be prepared to pay a premium for the right car.

That's just me though.

(I don't own a Hartech car btw)

jwbc1984

Original Poster:

112 posts

226 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
I wanted to get the forums view on risk really. I’ve never owned a Porsche before and I’m now in a position where I can get a good 996 (ignoring garage and incline debacle), but I don’t have a bottomless budget. I have about £25k and like anyone getting one I want a good one with the right looking after will keep going for a long time.

I want to minimise the risk of big bills in the immediate future so wondered the best way to go about it. Finding a hartech rebuilt one would be great, but from what I’ve seen, the owners know the value it brings and they tend to be outside my price bracket. A route I haven’t done is give them a bell as I have read they might be able to know some for sale, so I might give them a bell.

I know there are cheap 996s out there - I don’t want a £16k 140kmiles cat d eBay special, as I know that’s likely a clanger - and I think I’m realistic about what I get for my budget. I wanted to get the consensus from existing owners if they thought paying the premium from a highly regarded specialist is an imperative or keep my options open.

TBH - this thread has been v useful!

Chubbyross

3,776 posts

66 months

Saturday 28th May
quotequote all
I would go indy dealer every time. I’ve had several 987/997 Porsches and I wouldn’t want the lottery of going private (unless a long-term member of PCGB who has cherished their car) and I would never ever buy from a non-specialist dealer. I’ve seen several cars on sale from the latter and they have been absolutely terrible - shoddy paintwork, leaks and generally poor to drive. So bad that I didn’t even bother with getting an inspection. If you buy from one of the better indys (RPM, RSJ etc.) they have buyers who only pick the best cars and will weed out the lemons to save you time. They also tend to have their own mechanics prepping the cars. These are guys who know the cars inside out, will know all the standard issues and sort them out prior to selling. The decent indys also have a reputation to keep so it’s not in their interest to sell duds. Don’t forget hardcore Porsche fans are a difficult bunch to please and the indys need to stay on their side.

But I always always always get my cars inspected by a Porsche specialist. Porsche Inspections are the best imho. They will save you thousands in the long term by spotting potential issues. Any decent Porsche specialist will be happy to allow inspections. Walk away from any who don’t.

My final parting advice is this: just make sure you budget for bills. These cars can be ruinous to keep in top condition. I’ve just had a water pump and coil packs replaced on my 987 Boxster and the bill was over a grand. This is far from unusual and I usually allow for a couple of grand each year for oil changes and wear and tear items. I get so frustrated when I read stories of people buying ‘cheap’ Porsches and then moaning that they’re unreliable. They’re only unreliable when you buy cheap and scrimp on maintenance. There’s something about Porsches that often invite ill-informed buyers who think they’re a cheap way into sports car ownership. A 911 is expensive when new. The value goes down with time but spares and maintenance stay the same.

You’re doing the right thing at the moment by researching as much as you can. Good luck with the buying. They’re fabulous cars and once you buy into the marque you may never leave! I know I never have done and I can’t see it happening in the future.

ATM

15,394 posts

200 months

Sunday 29th May
quotequote all
I think the problem with only going for dealer cars when talking about a 25k 996 is they don't really exist. Not many dealers are in this market. Either because they can't find good stock to buy or they can't make enough margin on these cars or they are too risky at this price point. This is why FGP were unique when they came along.

The blue car at FGP mentioned above looks nice to me - link below. I see the YouTube walk around video is from 2 months ago so does this give us an idea of how long they have had the car for sale. The description says 10k worth of prep work. So does this mean they bought the car for 10k less than they're selling or are they making a loss? And why hasn't it sold yet?

I'd guess that 10k number is retail pricing and they have 4 or 5k margin in that work. We have to assume they are making money but if it hangs around for a while perhaps they will need to reduce the price and this eats into their margin. This is always a problem for dealers selling cars when the market overall starts to drop.

https://www.friendsgreenporsche.com/car/porsche-91...

The ad says its a 1 previous owner car. Reading through the list of their prep work is interesting as most of that list is valid for my early car with double that mileage.

If they bought that car with Gearbox Whine, a tired clutch, shabby paint, worn steering wheel, leaking expansion tank, leaking RMS etc then it was a bit of a lemon. All of which has been replaced on my car too. So I think that's a good buyers guide to an early car if you're looking to buy one.

Interesting also they mention the following which my car needs but I have so far ignored -

renew oil pressure sender,
renew passenger vanity mirror unit,
renew fuel locking rod and guide,
renew rear screen seal


Finally I'm curious what this one means -

install jubilee clip mod to steering rack PAS hose ferrule,


It sounds to me like this car has had virtually no maintenance prior to them buying it. Which is similar to my mate's green 996.2 mentioned above. I'll copy and paste it's story from another post I made elsewhere below this one - or perhaps this link will work instead.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

So similar in that it had been owned for many years by the same owner who was not very particular and therefore had very little work done to it so this all then needed doing once it was bought by a more enthusiastic and particular owner.


I've waffled on a bit here and not sure I've really made a point so I will try to....

I don't think many dealers would take on a car for sale which needs 10k worth of prep and is only selling for 23k and then sits around for over 2 months without selling. They would need to buy this car for 13k and then they only make their profit on the prep work. I'm curious why FGP even have that car for sale. I'd guess it was maybe a px but I have no idea really. FGP only have one more early car which is another C4, it's had 7k worth of prep work and is up for 21k and they state they sold it previously perhaps giving us a clue why they have it for sale again - perhaps a px maybe where the owner has upgraded to a 997 or something. They used to regularly stock early C2 cars when no one else did and now they don't have any.

Fnumber1user

306 posts

33 months

Sunday 29th May
quotequote all
Its a minefield IMHO - I'd be using the £25K (or part thereof) as a deposit on something nearly new from an OPC with warranty and fully known costs over x amount of time.

Reasons: 1. costs are known, 2. warranty in place should anything truly bad occur, 3. known future value so you aren't fully committed to it long term, 4. no concerns over massive potential costs (engine rebuild etc).

Totally depends on your aversion to risk. I'm risk attentive rather than aversive, but wanted some peace of mind on what to me is a significant purchase. Love a 996 4S to look at, those curves are sublime, I opted for a 3 month old 718 Cayman GTS after having test driven 992S at PEC. The 992 was 'flattering' and beautiful, the 718 was more engaging.

Will most likely end up with a 996 4S for the other half sooner or later. Good luck with your search and decisions.

MrC986

3,170 posts

172 months

Sunday 29th May
quotequote all
The number of “cheap” 996 Carreras has generally dropped massively IMO in the last 3 years. I can remember seeing the odd 100k mile plus C4 coupe privately listed at sub £10k whereas now you’d struggle to see the bottom of the market below at least £12k (if not more).

Active dealers like FGP would, we understand from forum “chat”, almost bid to buy cars blind from private sellers and it is very much fastest finger to to the phone, but when the private buyers are more motivated they can beat the dealers to it - forum activity has also helped if people are known to be looking for cars as others will post links up.

OP, when you are actively looking, include websites such as Car and Classic as people 996s can get listed on there.

ATM

15,394 posts

200 months

Sunday 29th May
quotequote all
I've got 5 cars outside and they were all bought privately. I prefer to look the PO or owner in the eye and get a feel for the type of person they are. My last 2 purchases I think I did well but I'm far from good at this. I do get excited and just say yes without thinking sometimes. So because of this I now take a friend with me to balance my over exuberance with some balanced well thought out logic. That's the idea.

So yes an inspection is good enough if you want to mitigate risk.

I'm not anti dealer I'm just saying what's been working for me. If a dealer is offering px then I can understand the drawer. Especially seeing as I hate, really hate selling cars.

Jamescrs

3,281 posts

46 months

Sunday 29th May
quotequote all
jwbc1984 said:
Yea, I’m London, about 1/2 inside the new expanded ulez. Already has to sell one car because of it.

I love the vitriol to a 996.2!!

I would say, the fried eggs of the .1 have aged VERY well, much better than the facelift.
I agree with the comment about the fried egg headlights, I own a 986 Boxster, one of the early ones with the orange indicators and initially I wasn't sure about them and considered changing them to clear to reduce the effect but they have massively grown on me and I really love the retro look of them now. I know other 986 owners in the owners groups are now going from clear headlights back to orange for the originality of them.