I think I have decided to buy a 996 Turbo manual...
Discussion
roca1976 said:
if you fancy 2WD you can drop out the front diff relatively cheaply and fully reversible should you wish return to standard.
Not quite that simple as you need new suspension too or it will sit high at the front. You could buy one already done. There was one for sale in the classifieds but it's sold.fourwheeler said:
Also guys.. what's the story with maintenance?
I ran a nice 996 Turbo S for 6 years and 30k miles. In my experience the parts weren't that expensive, but the labour was high for what seemed like inocuous jobs. I had all the usual things needing replacing, mostly cheap parts: springs and dampers; suspension arms and links; aircon condensers; various pipes and valves; alternator regulator; water pump; clutch accumulator; brake pads (not cheap for PCCBs admittedly); the list went on.Jobs that needed scary amounts of labour were things like replacing exhaust manifold studs and bolts, and the turbo bolts, which looked like they had been on the Titanic they were so rusty. Similarly a fuel pipe (I think) that ran over the top of the transmission in front of the engine, and needed the engine to be partly dropped. Turbo boost leaks took a bit of tracking down too. All stuff you'd expect when you realise it's a cramped engine bay with a lot of complicated plumbing, and there are two of everything! I put most of the costs for mine in my profile, should all still be there.
Not chocolate but they do all have a second gear pop out issue which can be up to £10k to fix properly. Slight design fault in the 996 turbo gearbox but most should have had it fixed by now.
If I was buying and planning to use as Porsche intended her 12-15k miles a year I'd want to buy a turbo or any used 911 really from a 911 Virgin, JZM, RSJ, 9e with a 12 month warranty
If I was buying and planning to use as Porsche intended her 12-15k miles a year I'd want to buy a turbo or any used 911 really from a 911 Virgin, JZM, RSJ, 9e with a 12 month warranty
I have owned a 996.2 3.6 manual and now have a 2010 E63. I wouldn't discount the E / CLS 63 they offer great value for money and the cash saved can pay the increase in VED and loss of MPG (mine averages 20mpg so not terrible) The interior of the AMG is in a different league in design and quality compared to my old 996 (it was older / higher miles compared to the E63).
I am a fan of the 996TT however couldn't justify the price delta compared to a V8 6.2 AMG especially when the majority of my driving is during rush hour traffic. I thought I would miss the manual more than I have, the MCT box is pretty quick shifting. I believe the 996 tip can be retrofitted with AMG paddles and is bullet proof even with big power 996 (I think it is a Merc / AMG box so designed for stump pulling torque)
If you plan on a keeper worth test driving manual, tips, etc. sounds like a manual rebuild could spoil the ownership experience!
or you could do what I did, make copious lists, read reviews, watch hours of YouTube and then go and buy the first E63 I saw and ignore all the lists and hours of home work...
I am a fan of the 996TT however couldn't justify the price delta compared to a V8 6.2 AMG especially when the majority of my driving is during rush hour traffic. I thought I would miss the manual more than I have, the MCT box is pretty quick shifting. I believe the 996 tip can be retrofitted with AMG paddles and is bullet proof even with big power 996 (I think it is a Merc / AMG box so designed for stump pulling torque)
If you plan on a keeper worth test driving manual, tips, etc. sounds like a manual rebuild could spoil the ownership experience!
or you could do what I did, make copious lists, read reviews, watch hours of YouTube and then go and buy the first E63 I saw and ignore all the lists and hours of home work...
Andyoz said:
Make sure the oil changes have been kept up to date. Mezgers are complicated lumps but solid.
For anyone that doesn't know the engine is derived from the one used in the GT1 race car. Main difference between this and the vanilla 911 engine from this era is that the Mezger has individual parts for each bore. So imagine 6 little blocks bolted together rather than 2 of 3 each. This makes it much more expensive to manufacture. ATM said:
For anyone that doesn't know the engine is derived from the one used in the GT1 race car. Main difference between this and the vanilla 911 engine from this era is that the Mezger has individual parts for each bore. So imagine 6 little blocks bolted together rather than 2 of 3 each. This makes it much more expensive to manufacture.
Yes, definitely a car to pay say an extra £10-15k for the best example you can find as it can go £££ south very quickly otherwise.
Thanks everybody.
Yes it sounds like I need to find a well maintained example. What are the steps in doing that? Porsche specialist PPI and a solid OPC + Specialist service book?
Can we do any more than that?
Regarding the Merc 63. I feel like I've kind of scratched the merc itch so to speak with my R230 SL 500 which I can use if I want to go on a comfy drive.
The 911 in some guise really is the one this time around.. I've wanted to scratch that itch in forever.
To whoever said the C4S sounds great......thank you! I've spent the evening listening to it on YouTube and it sounds great in comparison to the turbo.. but I do really like the turbo looks.
Since I've spent the last week or so eyeing up the turbo.. a 996 without the rear quarter vents seems plain. Its a real quandary because the C4S is a lot cheaper.
Yes it sounds like I need to find a well maintained example. What are the steps in doing that? Porsche specialist PPI and a solid OPC + Specialist service book?
Can we do any more than that?
Regarding the Merc 63. I feel like I've kind of scratched the merc itch so to speak with my R230 SL 500 which I can use if I want to go on a comfy drive.
The 911 in some guise really is the one this time around.. I've wanted to scratch that itch in forever.
To whoever said the C4S sounds great......thank you! I've spent the evening listening to it on YouTube and it sounds great in comparison to the turbo.. but I do really like the turbo looks.
Since I've spent the last week or so eyeing up the turbo.. a 996 without the rear quarter vents seems plain. Its a real quandary because the C4S is a lot cheaper.
BTW, FYI..
Here is the one with 22k spent on it. Seems like it had the kitchen sink thrown at it. I wonder how rough it was before?
According to total car check. Last V5 issued date is Feb 2020.
If you scroll down on the link you will see its been for sale the last 6 months and is currently for sale at 8k less than May asking price.
I wonder what these were trading for in Feb 2020.
https://totalcarcheck.co.uk/FreeCheck?regno=+VO03j...
It ticks all the boxes for me with the exception of aero kit..
If the work that is advertised was actually done and the engine not ragged this seems like a nice enough buy, on paper and makes the price fairly reasonable.
But you need to wonder why all that work was needed in the first place.. or is that being a bit too suspicious ?
Here is the one with 22k spent on it. Seems like it had the kitchen sink thrown at it. I wonder how rough it was before?
According to total car check. Last V5 issued date is Feb 2020.
If you scroll down on the link you will see its been for sale the last 6 months and is currently for sale at 8k less than May asking price.
I wonder what these were trading for in Feb 2020.
https://totalcarcheck.co.uk/FreeCheck?regno=+VO03j...
It ticks all the boxes for me with the exception of aero kit..
If the work that is advertised was actually done and the engine not ragged this seems like a nice enough buy, on paper and makes the price fairly reasonable.
But you need to wonder why all that work was needed in the first place.. or is that being a bit too suspicious ?
Edited by fourwheeler on Tuesday 15th November 22:58
fourwheeler said:
But you need to wonder why all that work was needed in the first place.. or is that being a bit too suspicious ?
They're 20 year old near supercars of their era. They can throw that sort of bill and still have things left to finish.Edited by fourwheeler on Tuesday 15th November 22:58
fourwheeler said:
Thanks everybody.
Yes it sounds like I need to find a well maintained example. What are the steps in doing that? Porsche specialist PPI and a solid OPC + Specialist service book?
Can we do any more than that?
Regarding the Merc 63. I feel like I've kind of scratched the merc itch so to speak with my R230 SL 500 which I can use if I want to go on a comfy drive.
The 911 in some guise really is the one this time around.. I've wanted to scratch that itch in forever.
To whoever said the C4S sounds great......thank you! I've spent the evening listening to it on YouTube and it sounds great in comparison to the turbo.. but I do really like the turbo looks.
Since I've spent the last week or so eyeing up the turbo.. a 996 without the rear quarter vents seems plain. Its a real quandary because the C4S is a lot cheaper.
Don't get me wrong, the 996 C4S has the best rear of any pork (turbo not far behind) and they do sound fruitier, but they are absolutely not in the same playing field. Take away the many many inherent issues with the cheaper M96 and you still have essentially the same chassis with significantly less power and torque. One is good for posing and pootling to the shops (where oddly enough it sounds its best), the other is a weapon even in stock form.Yes it sounds like I need to find a well maintained example. What are the steps in doing that? Porsche specialist PPI and a solid OPC + Specialist service book?
Can we do any more than that?
Regarding the Merc 63. I feel like I've kind of scratched the merc itch so to speak with my R230 SL 500 which I can use if I want to go on a comfy drive.
The 911 in some guise really is the one this time around.. I've wanted to scratch that itch in forever.
To whoever said the C4S sounds great......thank you! I've spent the evening listening to it on YouTube and it sounds great in comparison to the turbo.. but I do really like the turbo looks.
Since I've spent the last week or so eyeing up the turbo.. a 996 without the rear quarter vents seems plain. Its a real quandary because the C4S is a lot cheaper.
Test drive both, and post back when you have purchased the Turbo
. It was a flagship model for a reason.If you want na experience with the nicer soundtrack a far more nimble C2 makes more sense than a C4S
Edited by shantybeater on Tuesday 15th November 23:21
fourwheeler said:
Oh that's nice alright.. will be interesting to see what it goes for.
Interestingly the mileage is on the slightly higher side than I would expected for something at Silverstone Auctions.
Here is one to keep an eye onInterestingly the mileage is on the slightly higher side than I would expected for something at Silverstone Auctions.
https://jzmporsche.com/cars/porsche-996-p0432/
" lovingly cared for by its previous owners and has always had money lavished on it whenever it has required mechanical upkeep."
or this one....
wow what a combo, gold, red and walnut.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210110...
wow what a combo, gold, red and walnut.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210110...
I loved mine, used as a daily commuting into London daily, and would have another in a heartbeat
Very quick, look great and relatively inexpensive to look after
X50 power kit would be good, but without the body kit, imo. The rear wing isn’t as good looking as the standard hydraulic one
My other desire would be sports seats, they are far superior to the standard offering
Facelift cars got
Glovebox, PCM and Bose as standard, cupholders, rain sensor and auto dim rear view mirror. Soft touch plastics and improved ventilation also
X50 became an option with the face lifted car too
Very quick, look great and relatively inexpensive to look after
X50 power kit would be good, but without the body kit, imo. The rear wing isn’t as good looking as the standard hydraulic one
My other desire would be sports seats, they are far superior to the standard offering
Facelift cars got
Glovebox, PCM and Bose as standard, cupholders, rain sensor and auto dim rear view mirror. Soft touch plastics and improved ventilation also
X50 became an option with the face lifted car too
simonsti said:
I have a 2004, Cobalt blue, Aero kit turbo with Sport Techno wheels.
I have owned it since 2014 and it may be up for sale shortly as I have a new car coming.
Only mod is a Kline exhaust which sounds amazing.
They look good in Cobalt, and they are less ubiquitous than Black or Seal GreyI have owned it since 2014 and it may be up for sale shortly as I have a new car coming.
Only mod is a Kline exhaust which sounds amazing.
I would view the relatively low purchase price (even for a decent one) as being a chance to put £20k+ aside as a war chest.
I'm just not sure it would be my 'first' Porsche unless I went in with full knowledge of the potential outlays. But if you get one that previous owners have been through most of the biggie refresh outlays then you could have a keeper!
The Facebook owners groups etc. are always a good start and nice cars are often offered up there with some provenance that can be checked out (or you can let them know you're in the market).
I'm just not sure it would be my 'first' Porsche unless I went in with full knowledge of the potential outlays. But if you get one that previous owners have been through most of the biggie refresh outlays then you could have a keeper!
The Facebook owners groups etc. are always a good start and nice cars are often offered up there with some provenance that can be checked out (or you can let them know you're in the market).
Edited by Andyoz on Wednesday 16th November 10:38
Thank you everybody for the continued input.
I take on board that the car is very much in the super car performance bracket, of that period and that comes with complexity and costs.
However, I thin that can be mitigated largely by doing a lot of DIY work, in the sense that if there are any issues, i'll just park it up in my garage and go at it when time permits - I won't be stuck for transport. A specialist has just said to be simply.. if a £5k bill would ruin your year, then don't buy one.. if it wouldn't, then consider and have your research done.
...
Since my last discussion I have considered 3 alternatives.
1. 996 C4S
2. 996 C2
3. 997 C2S
--
1. There doesn't seem to be a "reasonably priced" one for sale right now that doesn't have a crap MOT history. Then you have borescore to contend with.
2. I can't have this because the bodykit on them seems dated to me. The front bumper hasn't aged well, imho.
3. Yes, I could absolutely go for one of these. More keenly priced than a 996 Turbo, fruit exhaust and nice power.
So, in summary I really would settle for a 997 C2S .. but I really don't want to have borescore issues on my mind and the potential of that big bill from Hartech. Let's call it £10. I mean if I drop £20 on a 997 C2S and it needs another £10k later on, i'll be pretty peeved at that and regret not buying the 996 Turbo.
I'm sure that borescoring might be overhyped, but one would want to be mentally prepared for the rebuild. I suppose I could look for a rebuilt one....
So... i'm kind of back to the Turbo.. and is that a bad thing? I mean it looks fairly mean, and by most accounts it's fairly potent...I also really do like the style inc. the lights...
I take on board that the car is very much in the super car performance bracket, of that period and that comes with complexity and costs.
However, I thin that can be mitigated largely by doing a lot of DIY work, in the sense that if there are any issues, i'll just park it up in my garage and go at it when time permits - I won't be stuck for transport. A specialist has just said to be simply.. if a £5k bill would ruin your year, then don't buy one.. if it wouldn't, then consider and have your research done.
...
Since my last discussion I have considered 3 alternatives.
1. 996 C4S
2. 996 C2
3. 997 C2S
--
1. There doesn't seem to be a "reasonably priced" one for sale right now that doesn't have a crap MOT history. Then you have borescore to contend with.
2. I can't have this because the bodykit on them seems dated to me. The front bumper hasn't aged well, imho.
3. Yes, I could absolutely go for one of these. More keenly priced than a 996 Turbo, fruit exhaust and nice power.
So, in summary I really would settle for a 997 C2S .. but I really don't want to have borescore issues on my mind and the potential of that big bill from Hartech. Let's call it £10. I mean if I drop £20 on a 997 C2S and it needs another £10k later on, i'll be pretty peeved at that and regret not buying the 996 Turbo.
I'm sure that borescoring might be overhyped, but one would want to be mentally prepared for the rebuild. I suppose I could look for a rebuilt one....
So... i'm kind of back to the Turbo.. and is that a bad thing? I mean it looks fairly mean, and by most accounts it's fairly potent...I also really do like the style inc. the lights...
@four wheeler, 996 turbos are very good cars indeed, I bought mine exactly 10 years ago this very day.
Mine is a 'Tip, which shouldn't be discounted on one of these. Sure, it's a 'slush box', but a damned good one too, with 255 maps in the transmission controller. Double tap the accelerator and hang on - that activates max attack mode from both engine and gearbox instantly. Downsides to a 'tip? They self learn and become lazy very quickly, so you have to wake it up periodically. Alternatively just hit the steering wheel rocker switches and off you go.
Dynamically the car feels heavy, but this can be absolutely be transformed for the cost of a pair of RSS engine mounts and a trip to Fearnsport or Center Gravity for a geo set up.
They are hugely capable cars, particularly if the stock K16 version receives a good remap - mine runs at 503 hp on Litchfield's rolling road and the car is properly rapid. Apply the same remap to a K24 turbo'd car and you are well north of 500 hp. Just invest wisely in some 997 turbo brake discs, some caliper spacers and decent pads, as the beast will take some stopping.
They can drop unexpected bills on you, buy with your eyes wide open and get a very thorough inspection prior to purchase. Mine came from RSJ in Slough and it has been totally reliable, but they don't sell many of them these days. I would recommend having Matt at Fearnsport look at any prospective car as he knows them inside and out. A top bloke.
Happy hunting.
Mike
Mine is a 'Tip, which shouldn't be discounted on one of these. Sure, it's a 'slush box', but a damned good one too, with 255 maps in the transmission controller. Double tap the accelerator and hang on - that activates max attack mode from both engine and gearbox instantly. Downsides to a 'tip? They self learn and become lazy very quickly, so you have to wake it up periodically. Alternatively just hit the steering wheel rocker switches and off you go.
Dynamically the car feels heavy, but this can be absolutely be transformed for the cost of a pair of RSS engine mounts and a trip to Fearnsport or Center Gravity for a geo set up.
They are hugely capable cars, particularly if the stock K16 version receives a good remap - mine runs at 503 hp on Litchfield's rolling road and the car is properly rapid. Apply the same remap to a K24 turbo'd car and you are well north of 500 hp. Just invest wisely in some 997 turbo brake discs, some caliper spacers and decent pads, as the beast will take some stopping.
They can drop unexpected bills on you, buy with your eyes wide open and get a very thorough inspection prior to purchase. Mine came from RSJ in Slough and it has been totally reliable, but they don't sell many of them these days. I would recommend having Matt at Fearnsport look at any prospective car as he knows them inside and out. A top bloke.
Happy hunting.
Mike
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